Just when you thought you had seen it all . . . (Warning: Not for the fainthearted)

Discussion in 'Outerwear' started by Superfluous, Mar 3, 2016.

  1. jonesy86

    jonesy86 My Mail is Forwarded Here

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    Himel says "the surface has been napped"

    Shinki Horsehide Dark Brown Suede

    This leather is a full grain Horsehide suede that is chrome tanned. The leather is highly flexible and feels chamois-soft on the surface. Made as a special run for Himel Bros., it was designed to replicate the early suedes of California and Block tanneries. What makes it special is that it is not a split leather or the weaker underside of a horsehide but it is the full hide and the surface has been napped to eventually show the character of the hides underneath the suede. It has a very bendy hand and a light leathery smell. The leather is 1.2 mm or (2.5oz) and is perfect for a more fashion-forward jacket.
     
  2. jonesy86

    jonesy86 My Mail is Forwarded Here

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    JoeNiblick likes this.
  3. ton312

    ton312

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    I love rough out and suede but HH suede is simply absurd. And full grain rough out is even more absurd. No matter how the suede side was achieved, sanding or turned inside out, the “full grain” quality is invisible and/or lost.
    Or am I missing something?
     
    Monitor likes this.
  4. Monitor

    Monitor

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    Lol!!! That doesn't even make... Himel, what the... I can't, I swear!

    If the surface, which is literally the only thing that can be referred to as full grain, has been sanded, what is full grain about it!? By removing full grain, you don't get to keep full grain! 1-1=0! Hell, even slightly retouched leather isn't called full grain anymore but top grain instead! Or the corrected grain, which would've been a perfect definition for that Shinki suede, if the description on how they make it is to be taken into consideration.

    And what is "hide underneath the suede"!? There's nothing underneath suede but more suede! There's the epidermis which is the surface and it's just fibers underneath. The character happens on the surface!

    Or am I as well completely misunderstanding the mechanics of leather, alongside Wikipedia.

    And I won't even start about the bit that a regular HH has been sanded to achieve some bs suedes of California! HH is expensive and NOBODY would sand (or destroy) the epidermis layer just to achieve some crappy suede. Nobody! That I'm willing to bet on! They're probably splitting the Shinki hides and are trying to find use for the suede layers and instead of being honest about it, they lie.
     
    Carlos840 likes this.
  5. red devil

    red devil Call Me a Cab

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    I don't want to judge too early... but this seems deliberately obscure and vague.
     
  6. Carlos840

    Carlos840 My Mail is Forwarded Here

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    Full grain suede is basically inside out leather.
    Regular suede is what you get when you split leather in half.
    If you have a 4mm thick full grain leather, you can split it in two, you then have a 2 parts, the bottom will be 2mm thick suede, the top will be 2mm thick full grain leather.

    Edit: read the previous answers... No idea if they indeed just sand the top of the leather to create top suede. Very weird i agree.

    If they indeed make this suede by sandin/napping off the top, then it should be called "top grain suede", not full grain.
     
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2020
  7. Marc mndt

    Marc mndt One Too Many

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    I don't think fraudulent is the correct word. I'd say this is just clever marketing.
    When buying an expensive jacket, I guess people want to justify the outlay to themselves. It's easier to justify the outlay when they can tell themselves they bought something really special from their money. "it was designed to replicate the early suedes of California and Block tanneries." Nobody cares whether that's actually true. Those kind of claims just make the hide look more special than just 'suede horsehide'. People want to be fooled.

    Last week I bought a car. You should hear the marketing bs they use for selling expensive car features:
    "In addition, this fully integrated in-car sound system is supported by proprietary True Image technology."
    "On average more than 400 hours are spent in the car by the Bang & Olufsen Automotive Acoustic Team."
    "Through numerous hours of listening and the use of complex digital signal processing, Bang & Olufsen sound designers have created a unique sound tuning that matches the acoustic signature of the Audi models perfectly."

    Nobody cares whether the above is actually true or even makes sense. It's just clever marketing and I think Himel Bros understands the marketing game very well.
     
    AeroFan_07 and Monitor like this.
  8. Monitor

    Monitor

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    I dunno, man... That stuff about a unique tuning sound and Automotive Acoustic Team (Lol!!!) is pretty hilarious but it just may be true. I mean, Bang & Olufsen - was just walking past their store yesterday, funny you should mentioned them now because I haven't heard that name in 15 years - coulda thrown some people into a car for 400 hours and maybe it does sound like those Audi models. What I mean is it might not be... Well, a lie.

    But this Shinki suede stuff is a flat out lie. Mentioning "grain" (let alone Full grain) in context of split/sanded leather is... Don't know how else to call it.
    But you know, what do I know. Himel does this for a living. Maybe I got it all wrong.
     
  9. Marc mndt

    Marc mndt One Too Many

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    I've done some googling and I think you're right. There is no such thing as full grain suede. You might refer to a hide being full grain suede if the non-sanded outher layer is facing the inside of the jacket, while the fuzzy side is facing the outside. But why would you use a full grain hide on a lined jacket like Himel's heron? That's practically wasting a beautiful hide.

    Maybe someone should just ask Dave what full grain suede encompasses. Then we'll know :)
     
  10. navetsea

    navetsea I'll Lock Up

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    I think there are hide with scars or other imperfection, by itself it is a full grain but has no value from the scars usually they would be turned into corrected grain, in this case they are sanded into suede. so suede made from full grain, I think that's what they are trying to tell.

    nubuck doesn't have the nap, only rough foam like (picture the backing of your mousepad).
     
  11. Bahabp100

    Bahabp100 One of the Regulars

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    Schott is also selling a “hand painted” Pollack pollack style Perfecto and other painted styles I’m not liking it at all. C1AF9557-898A-4A33-BAB9-82A24494084E.jpeg
     
    El Marro and Marc mndt like this.
  12. AeroFan_07

    AeroFan_07 My Mail is Forwarded Here

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    ^^ Yuck. :eek:
     
  13. Monitor

    Monitor

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    Seen that today. All the painted ones are pretty bad...
     
    dannyk likes this.
  14. Monitor

    Monitor

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    Well, in theory, every suede is made from full grain leather - you just remove the epidermis layer and voila, suede. Whether it's cut away or sanded, once you remove the surface, it's all suede from there. I mean, if that's the spin they're taking, technically, it's not incorrect, regardless of how horribly wrong it is.

    With the shiny top layer, surface of the hide, goes ANY talk of grain as well, be it full, top or whatever.
     
    navetsea, red devil and Carlos840 like this.
  15. Marc mndt

    Marc mndt One Too Many

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    Imagine you work at Schott and it's your job to ruin nice leather jackets with your paint brush...
     
  16. Monitor

    Monitor

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    Since I draw, I would've tried to do something nice and wouldn't be able to help myself. So this insults me on more than one level. But I don't understand why can't they hire someone to do something nice on the jackets. Nice looking skull if they don't want to bother with an original thought, let alone something unique but it would've been really nice if an actual artist painted each jacket. Would also justify the price.
     
  17. JoeNiblick

    JoeNiblick One of the Regulars

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    I saw the email from Schott and wondered when people would start commenting. They're kind of ridiculous.
     
  18. GHT

    GHT I'll Lock Up

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    The painter & decorator fellow who did our house about a year ago wore something similar. Somehow I think that his had more originality, it matched his hair.
     
  19. Mich486

    Mich486 One Too Many

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    Perfect for when you can’t make up your mind
    00829BB1-8E36-4058-9334-8767C45827CD.jpeg
     
    JMax, torfjord and Marc mndt like this.
  20. Bushman

    Bushman My Mail is Forwarded Here

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    Talk about patchwork! Looks like a hobo sewn it after digging through Levi's dumpster!
     

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