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Just when you thought you had seen it all . . . (Warning: Not for the fainthearted)

Blackadder

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And for those who think the Perfecto style is fair game, how about these
Grais of Chicago and Buco of Detroit
 

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And for those who think the Perfecto style is fair game, how about these
Grais of Chicago and Buco of Detroit
^Good point. I suspect the Grais is a rip off of the Buco design, made from cheaper material. I won’t argue that it’s not just as blatant. It certainly looks to be.
But….it’s a little different, in my opinion, to take a shell like a cross zip and customize the front panels. So the original cross zip and it’s infinite variations…that dog won’t hunt. Plenty of makers folded the front lapels and modified the pocket arrangement, back design and interior enough to where the jackets were not direct copies. FC is releasing a direct copy.
Schott , Buco, Cal, Langlitz, Wards, Penny’s (add 50 more) all sold similar styles tweaked enough to be unique enough to carry their own label. FC, particularly in this case, is a blatant copy.

Regardless of the motives behind the copy, it is a copy (stolen design) and they’d have done better to modify it in a way that made it less blatant.
 
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Blackadder

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^Good point. I suspect the Grais is a rip off of the Buco design, made from cheaper material. I won’t argue that it’s not just as blatant. It certainly looks to be.
But….it’s a little different, in my opinion, to take a shell like a cross zip and customize the front panels. So the original cross zip and it’s infinite variations…that dog won’t hunt. Plenty of makers folded the front lapels and modified the pocket arrangement, back design and interior enough to where the jackets were not direct copies. FC is releasing a direct copy.
Schott , Buco, Cal, Langlitz, Wards, Penny’s (add 50 more) all sold similar styles tweaked enough to be unique enough to carry their own label. FC, particularly in this case, is a blatant copy.

Regardless of the motives behind the copy, it is a copy (stolen design) and they’d have done better to modify it in a way that made it less blatant.
I have never handled any of the older Grais but some here said that the old label Grais were very well made.
As for the Perfecto style, it is true that some brands are tweaked enough to be distinguishable like Sportclad but there are others which to me are not, like the Windward (with 2 stars) and the Durable.
 
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For a moment there, I thought this Alexander McQueen jacket doesn't look too bad...
P00688262.jpg


...but only for a moment.
P00688262_d1.jpg



Look at all those brands selling Perfecto style jackets in the US. Was Durable shamelessly copying Schott or the other way round?

Truth be told, Durable didn't invent this style. Schott just picked up on the popularity of The Wild One but Durable lifted the style from at least a couple of earlier makers.
 

Canuck Panda

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These Japanese brands focus on local market, making copies of Western jackets that better fit the Japanese. For example 666 has been selling LL and Schott copies in "Japanese" cut for a long time. Some of their copies are made in UK but also modified to fit the Japanese. Addict originally sells vintage LL and decided to make their own copies mainly for the Japanese market.

Another reason besides the cutting is the local brands like 666 and Y'2 are more affordable and accessible. The price of imports (probably owing to import duties) are way too high. A Vanson model F actually costs more than the Y'2 copy. Aero has explained that their goods are way more expensive in Japan in the tax refund discussion on VLJ. With the current exchange rate, the Japanese brands would look even better against imports in the local market.

These brands became known outside Japan because of forums and internet. People outside started to like their leather and cut (owing to the fashion trend). But they are made for the Japanese market. Their export prices are not competitive at all unlike say Japanese cars or electrical appliances in the 70s.

Back then, you would not have known about these brands at all. No one talked about 666 and Y'2 yet they have been around years before Addict and FCL.

Look at all those brands selling Perfecto style jackets in the US. Was Durable shamelessly copying Schott or the other way round?

I've found this to be the case. Pricing wise.

If the stuff is not made domestically, and the domestic retailer has to import that, the mark up is usually around 60%. And this works both ways. So an USA/UK made jacket is actually 60% more in Japan. And a Japan made jacket is about 60% more in USA.

It's always least expensive if bought within their country of origin.

I was always baffled at how expensive Levis was in Europe back in the 90s. They're sold in places like Value Village in Vancouver, but was considered premium in Paris and priced like it.

And here is the biggest surprise... The 2000 plus dollars premium Japanese jackets are only about 200,000 yen in Japan. That's $1,400 at the most given the current exchange rates. And all the brands are sold at approx. the same price range, RMC included. Half belts from any brand, from RMC "down" to Y2 is about 180,000 yen to 200,000 yen right now in any of the stores that carries them. There is a difference in quality and construction, but not so much in pricing in Japan. Mirrors the saying "the nail stick out gets hammer down".
The motorcycle jackets are totally different story. I don't know why they are so expensive in Japan compared to other styles. Even used ones wants ridiculous high prices.
 

Canuck Panda

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2,461
For a moment there, I thought this Alexander McQueen jacket doesn't look too bad...
P00688262.jpg


...but only for a moment.
P00688262_d1.jpg





Truth be told, Durable didn't invent this style. Schott just picked up on the popularity of The Wild One but Durable lifted the style from at least a couple of earlier makers.
The Harvey Two face of jackets. The Alexander Two bodies...
 

Blackadder

My Mail is Forwarded Here
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3,607
Location
China
I've found this to be the case. Pricing wise.

If the stuff is not made domestically, and the domestic retailer has to import that, the mark up is usually around 60%. And this works both ways. So an USA/UK made jacket is actually 60% more in Japan. And a Japan made jacket is about 60% more in USA.

It's always least expensive if bought within their country of origin.

I was always baffled at how expensive Levis was in Europe back in the 90s. They're sold in places like Value Village in Vancouver, but was considered premium in Paris and priced like it.

And here is the biggest surprise... The 2000 plus dollars premium Japanese jackets are only about 200,000 yen in Japan. That's $1,400 at the most given the current exchange rates. And all the brands are sold at approx. the same price range, RMC included. Half belts from any brand, from RMC "down" to Y2 is about 180,000 yen to 200,000 yen right now in any of the stores that carries them. There is a difference in quality and construction, but not so much in pricing in Japan. Mirrors the saying "the nail stick out gets hammer down".
The motorcycle jackets are totally different story. I don't know why they are so expensive in Japan compared to other styles. Even used ones wants ridiculous high prices.
Perhaps you were looking at Y'2's premium models. Regular HH models. Steer can be even lower.
https://www.leather-house.net/fs/lh1978/Y2leather/kawajan17
https://www.leather-house.net/fs/lh1978/Y2leather/leather-coat-45
https://www.leather-house.net/fs/lh1978/Y2leather/leather-jacket103
 

Canuck Panda

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2,461
This store is awesome. Thanks!

Yeah I was looking mostly the stores like Barnstormer Jelado Junky...etc. The special retail shops don't carry the opening price point models for sure. And I've seen Y2 had a lot of those but wasn't sure if they are still in that business or if they had wanted to go up market. I have four Y2s now, counting a Dappers and the Orgueil. The stuff they do for retailers brands is definitely nicer than the ones under their own brand. Their leather is pretty good but the machine work is very mediocore, so I was very shocked at the prices of their "premium" models.
 

Blackadder

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Messages
3,607
Location
China
This store is awesome. Thanks!

Yeah I was looking mostly the stores like Barnstormer Jelado Junky...etc. The special retail shops don't carry the opening price point models for sure. And I've seen Y2 had a lot of those but wasn't sure if they are still in that business or if they had wanted to go up market. I have four Y2s now, counting a Dappers and the Orgueil. The stuff they do for retailers brands is definitely nicer than the ones under their own brand. Their leather is pretty good but the machine work is very mediocore, so I was very shocked at the prices of their "premium" models.
Rakuten is also a good place to start your search. Same store on Rakuten. Some proxies/shopping service like FJ give out Rakuten discount coupons. Coupons amount to 10% sometimes, so no Japanese sale tax in a way.
https://item.rakuten.co.jp/leather-house/leather-jacket103/
 

Canuck Panda

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2,461
Rakuten is also a good place to start your search. Same store on Rakuten. Some proxies/shopping service like FJ give out Rakuten discount coupons. Coupons amount to 10% sometimes, so no Japanese sale tax in a way.
https://item.rakuten.co.jp/leather-house/leather-jacket103/
That's awesome Thanks BA. I was looking at a 2.3mm eco horse one on Rakuten but after seeing their machine work I was a bit hesitant on paying the premium level prices. The coupon discount will definitely seal the deal. I've always wondered about the 2.3mm eco horse leather... Thanks again!
 

Blackadder

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Messages
3,607
Location
China
That's awesome Thanks BA. I was looking at a 2.3mm eco horse one on Rakuten but after seeing their machine work I was a bit hesitant on paying the premium level prices. The coupon discount will definitely seal the deal. I've always wondered about the 2.3mm eco horse leather... Thanks again!
Welcome. You have to check if the Rakuten price actually includes tax though. If not tax will added at check out.
税込 means Japanese sales tax included
 

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