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Kit Karson Jackets
- Thread starter Will Zach
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From what I’ve seen and read, Kit Karson (and Kit Carson) were around between 1930s-1950s, whereas Wolf, based in Boston, was only around in 1950s. Kit Karson appears to be a label sold at Levine’s department store (Texas-based), whereas Wolf was a maker for Kit Karson’s crosszip leather jackets—the HH ones with wool lining. Kit Karson (and the Edgo label) appear to be a higher end version of Wolf’s crosszip jackets. The former has a lot of French seams, whereas the latter has little to none.
Ideal Sportswear Co. / Ideal Outerwear, based in NY, is another maker that also made crosszip leather jackets for Kit Carson / Kit Karson—the 10-star version. Their HH jackets have a separate kidney panel with the 4 stars there, and 3 stars on the each epaulette.
Ideal Outerwear also made the steerhide version of the 10-star crosszip jacket. The same steerhide label, without the wool lining, was also seen on a Kit Karson straight-zip. Apparently Taylor Swift wore this jacket for a 2009 issue of Rolling Stone magazine. Possibly a women’s jacket.
Two more makers (Ralphs-Pugh and Al Crowes) below.
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1950s straight-zip police jacket, with badge holder. This looks almost like a Ralphs-Pugh, without the outside belt loops.
1950s CHP with a badge holder, by Ideal Outerwear. The back looks exactly like an Al Crowes of Washington state. French seams are everywhere, in the same places in both jackets. For the front, the lapel’s angle also looks the same. The Al Crowes that I own doesn’t have epaulettes, button sleeves, or a badge holder though. I’m 98% sure that this was made by Al Crowes.
1950s CHP with a badge holder, by Ideal Outerwear. The back looks exactly like an Al Crowes of Washington state. French seams are everywhere, in the same places in both jackets. For the front, the lapel’s angle also looks the same. The Al Crowes that I own doesn’t have epaulettes, button sleeves, or a badge holder though. I’m 98% sure that this was made by Al Crowes.
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jeo
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First one is an All Weather by Leather Garment Co. out of San Francisco, not Ralphs-Pugh. The second one is an Al Crowes, someone just slapped a Kit Carson label on there after the fact.
1946 ad in Pittsburgh Post-Gazette newspaper. Sears sold Kit Carson capeskin jackets.
1951 ads in Toledo Blade newspaper of Ohio. Tiedtke’s was a big department store in Toledo, Ohio that sold men’s and boys’ Kit Carson/Karson horsehide, capeskin, and suede jackets during 1950s.
1953 ad in Toledo Blade
1956 ads in Toledo Blade. Note that it says “styled by Kit Carson” which makes Kit Carson a designer, not a maker.
1958 ad in Toledo Blade
Kit Karson by Rough Wear. There were at least 3 makers making jackets for the Kit Karson label.
Thanks for the identification. Two instances are more than a coincidence, not like there are many Kit Karson labels around for fakes. I suspect that “someone” isn’t the Japanese but the actual person behind using the Kit Karson designer label that contracted with different jacket makers. That means All-Weather and Al Crowes were making leather jackets for the Kit Karson designer label. Kit Carson is like Admiral Byrd, two famous people that had their own clothing lines but didn’t make jackets themselves.
1951 ads in Toledo Blade newspaper of Ohio. Tiedtke’s was a big department store in Toledo, Ohio that sold men’s and boys’ Kit Carson/Karson horsehide, capeskin, and suede jackets during 1950s.
1953 ad in Toledo Blade
1956 ads in Toledo Blade. Note that it says “styled by Kit Carson” which makes Kit Carson a designer, not a maker.
1958 ad in Toledo Blade
Kit Karson by Rough Wear. There were at least 3 makers making jackets for the Kit Karson label.
Thanks for the identification. Two instances are more than a coincidence, not like there are many Kit Karson labels around for fakes. I suspect that “someone” isn’t the Japanese but the actual person behind using the Kit Karson designer label that contracted with different jacket makers. That means All-Weather and Al Crowes were making leather jackets for the Kit Karson designer label. Kit Carson is like Admiral Byrd, two famous people that had their own clothing lines but didn’t make jackets themselves.
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The Lost Cowboy
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What is the purpose of that side zipper pocket? It's so small and seems a bit fussy, am I wrong to think it must have had a specific function?
ABCD
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It's for the pillion rider to put their stuff in.
The Lost Cowboy
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Wow that's cool. I would not have thought of that. But it's so small - maybe meant for a lighter or something like that?
jeo
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Even though Kit Karson isn’t a maker, when a label says “styled by” that doesn’t mean they aren’t a maker. All of the following are makers. Many more examples of this.
This jacket is not a Roughwear.
No it doesn’t. That’s a wild leap. You’d need to find at least one more example if not two or three where you have a clear and obvious All Weather or Al Crowes made jacket that has a Kit Karson label. If you find them, post them. There are plenty of Kit Karson jackets out there. Find me one that looks like an All Weather, or an Al Crowes. And speaking of which, Al Crowes was a very small operation. You barely see their own jackets out there so you think they were making jackets for a big brand like that. Doesn’t make sense. Until you come with some receipts this just another wild theory.
jeo
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Kit Karson CHP. Perhaps made by American Sportswear. The cuff shape and the way it’s connected to the sleeve further cements my suspicion.
Here’s an American Sportswear CHP that shares some of the same details.
Here’s an American Sportswear CHP that shares some of the same details.
I can see the large one in Blatt being used for gloves. But this one is too small, maybe hiding cash, coins, pocket knife, comb, keys, meds, or important documents (like passport). For us modern folks, brick phone.
I’ve always wondered what the small tiny pocket in the front is for. It’s also similarly small.
The Lost Cowboy
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I always understood the front one to be a coin pocket.
As for the side one, assuming @ABCD is correct (I do assume that) and this was used for the passenger to store things, my question is what was stored there?
My hypothesis is that such jackets were specifically made for cross country motorbike teams and this was a compass pocket (or maybe a map?).
I have no idea how realistic that hypothesis is - it's truly just a guess. I don't even know if such a need actually existed or if I'm just making it up. But something like that seems more reasonable than a pocket for the pillion rider's cigarettes and lighter.
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jeo
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You’re not making it up. Buco advertised these as map pockets and the smaller ones as change pockets aka coin pockets.
I believe the secondary use for these are hand warmers for the pillion rider.
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For the Kit owners, current or former, is Kit’s leather thin? My Al Crowes, unlined and without belt, weighs 4.6 lbs. My Kit, wool-lined and with a heavy belt (mostly due to the metal buckle), weighs 4.3 lbs. Kit’s leather feels substantially thinner, like it could rip easily if I hit a snag. Not that I don’t like it (it’s very soft and easy to wear), I’m just not used to thin leather jacket to wear.
Still not sure what the raves on Kit / Wolf are all about. In your own words, can you explain to me what the appeal is, comparing to other vintage or modern leather jackets you own?
Still not sure what the raves on Kit / Wolf are all about. In your own words, can you explain to me what the appeal is, comparing to other vintage or modern leather jackets you own?
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I have the same jacket, down to the same sleeve zippers, the lining color, pocket lining color, and square belt. The only differences are two snaps on each epaulet, the main zipper (mine is Conmar), and the positioning of the red pockets (the beige pocket on mine is the small coin pocket, where the top chest pocket also has red lining). While I was working on restitching this jacket, I realized it’s 1940s after burning some cotton thread. It doesn’t burn like polyester/plastic.
The red pocket lining’s material is very impressive, it feels silk-blend, buttery soft. I love it.
Idk why there are two snaps on each epaulet on my jacket. Is it to make the shoulder smaller if I were to use the shorter snap? If I do wear it with a smaller shoulder, it feels kind of uncomfortable.
My main broken Conmar zipper
Inside pocket is beige.
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ABCD
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Mine had a main Conmar as well (with a Talon slider that didn't belong to the jacket) but the zipper tape near the mail insertion pin was torn so I had the main zip replaced.
I think it's just an embellishment as I can't think of any practical function. The epaulets are quite long though and somewhat floppy so maybe they realised the epaulets might catch wind when riding so they added the extra snap to make sure they won't flap in the wind?
Seems to be factory original, this one from the Rin Tanaka book has them too.
I have another kit karson which was from a different production run. It has a different, much lighter buckle and different color pockets lining.
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