Lil sump'm for the conservatives here.

Discussion in 'The Observation Bar' started by airfrogusmc, Sep 18, 2005.

  1. airfrogusmc

    airfrogusmc Suspended

    Oak Park Illinois
    Those of Us Who Know That America?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢s Worth Fighting for Have to Take It
    Back Now from Those Who Don?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢t
    by Robert F. Kennedy, Jr
    Speech delivered at the Sierra Summit 2005
    San Francisco, California
    September 10, 2005

    This is the worst environmental president we?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢ve had in American
    There have been over 400 major environmental roll backs that are
    listed there that have been implemented or proposed by this
    administration over the past four years as part of a deliberate
    concerted effort to eviscerate 30 years of environmental law.
    a stealth attack.
    The White House has used all kinds of ingenious machinations to try
    to conceal its radical agenda from the American people including
    Orwellian rhetoric. When they want to destroy the forests, they call
    it the Healthy Forest Act. When they wanted to destroy the air, they
    called it the Clear Skies Bill.
    But most insidiously, they have put polluters in charge of virtually
    all the agencies that are supposed to protect Americans from
    President Bush appointed as head of the Forest Service a timber
    industry lobbyist, Mark Rey, probably the most rapacious in history.
    He put in charge of public lands a mining industry lobbyist, Steven
    Griles, who believes that public lands are unconstitutional. He put in
    charge of the air division of the EPA, Jeffrey Holmstead, a utility
    lobbyist who has represented nothing but the worst air polluters in
    America. As head of Superfund, a woman whose last job was teaching
    corporate polluters how to evade Superfund. The second in command of
    EPA is a Monsanto lobbyist.
    The New York Times reported a couple of weeks ago we all read that as
    second in command of CEQ which is in the White House directly advising
    the president of environmental policy, he put a lobbyist of the
    American Petroleum Institute whose only job was to read all of the
    science from all the different federal agencies to make sure they
    didn?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢t say anything critical, to excise any critical statements about > the oil industry.
    He was there to lie to the American public, to protect one of the big
    corporate contributors to this White House. This is true throughout
    all of the agencies that are supposed to protect Americans from
    pollution, the Department of Energy, the Department of Agriculture,
    the Department of Commerce which regulates fisheries, the Department
    of the Interior, EPA of course, and the relevant divisions of the
    Justice Department. The same thing, all these agencies and sub
    secretariats, it is the polluters who are now running these agencies. departments have become corporate profit centers, they no
    longer have any obligation to benefit the public interests, their only
    obligation is to their shareholders and they fulfill that obligation
    by increasing viewer ship. How do you do that? not by reporting the
    news that we need to hear in to make rational decisions in our
    democracy but rather by entertaining us, by appealing to the prurient
    interests that all of us have in the reptilian core of our brain for
    sex and celebrity gossip. So they give us Laci Peterson and
    Michael Jackson and Kobe Bryant and we?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢re today the best entertained
    and the least informed people on the face of the earth and this is a
    real threat to American democracy.
    ... a gigantic diminution in quality of life...has taken place in this country
    as a direct result of this president?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢s environmental policy that Americans
    mainly don?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢t know about. I?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢m just going to focus on one industry which is
    coal burning power plants.
    ....One out of every four black children in America?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢s cities now has
    asthma. We know that asthma attacks are triggered primary by bad air, by
    ozone and particulates and we know that the principle source of those
    materials in our atmosphere are 1,100 coal burning power plants that are
    burning coal illegally. It?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢s been illegal for 17 years. President Clinton?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢s
    administration was prosecuting the worst 75 of those plants but that?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢s an
    industry that donated $48 million to this president during the 2000 cycle
    and have given $58 million since.
    One of the first things that Bush did when he came into office was to
    order the Justice Department and EPA to drop all those lawsuits. The
    top three enforcers at EPA, Sylvia Lowrance, Bruce Buckheit, Eric
    Schaeffer, all resigned their jobs in protest. These weren?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢t
    Democrats, these were people who had served through the Reagan and > Bush administrations, the earlier Bush administration.
    A top Justice Department official said that this had never happened
    in American history before where a presidential candidate accepts
    money, contributions from criminals under indictment or targeted for
    indictment and then orders those indictments and investigations
    dropped when he achieves office.
    Immediately after dropping those lawsuits, the White House went and
    abolished the New Source Rule which was the heart and soul, the
    central provision of the Clean Air Act. That rule is the rule that
    required those plants to clean up 17 years ago and it?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢s the
    fundamental compromise that allowed the passage of the Clean Air Act.
    If you go to EPA?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢s website today, you will see that that decision
    alone, that single decision, this is EPA?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢s website, kills 18,000
    Americans every single year. Six times the number of people that were
    killed by the World Trade Center attack. This should be on the front
    page of every newspaper in this country every single day and yet
    you?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢re not reading about it in the American press.
    A couple of months ago EPA announced that in 19 states it is now
    unsafe to eat any freshwater fish in the state for mercury
    contamination. We know where the mercury is coming from, those same
    coal burning power plants. In 48 states at least some of the fish are
    unsafe to eat. In fact, the only two states where all of the fish are
    still safe to eat are Alaska and Wyoming where republican controlled
    legislatures have refused to appropriate the money to test the fish.
    In all of the other states at least some, most or all of the fish are
    unsafe to eat.
    We know a lot about mercury we didn?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢t know a few years ago. We know
    for example, that one out of every six, now one out of every three
    American women have so much mercury in her womb that her children are
    at risk for a grim inventory of diseases, autism, blindness, mental
    retardation, heart, liver, kidney disease.
    Well, we have 630,000 children who are born in America every year who
    have been exposed to dangerous levels of mercury in their mother?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢s
    wombs. President Clinton recognizing the gravity of this national
    health epidemic reclassified mercury as a hazardous pollutant under
    the Clean Air Act. That triggered the requirement that all of those
    companies remove 90 percent of the mercury within three and a half
    years. It would have cost less than one percent of plant revenue, a
    great deal for the American people. We have the technology, it exists,
    we already require it in states like Massachusetts.
    But it still meant billions of dollars for that industry and that?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢s
    the industry that gave $100 million to this president and about 12
    weeks ago the White House announced that it was abolishing the Clinton
    era rules and substituting instead rules that were written by utility
    industry lobbyists that will allow those companies to never have to
    clean up the mercury. The rules say in their face that they have to
    clean up 70 percent within 15 years which by itself is outrageous but
    in fact, the utility lawyers who wrote those rules wrote so many
    loopholes into them that the utilities will be able to challenge them
    probably successfully and certainly forever and they will never have
    to clean up any additional mercury.
    We?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢re living in a science fiction nightmare today in the United
    States of America where my children and the children of millions of
    Americans who have asthmatic kids are bringing children into a world
    where the air is too poisonous for them to breathe. Where my children
    and the children of most Americans can now no longer safely engage in
    the seminal primal activity of American youth which is to go fishing
    with their father and mother and to come home and eat the fish because
    somebody gave money to a politician.
  2. MK

    MK Founder Staff Member Bartender


    What is your motive for posting this?
  3. airfrogusmc

    airfrogusmc Suspended

    Oak Park Illinois
    Hey MK

    Just a little sump'm to think about thats all.

  4. Biltmore Bob

    Biltmore Bob Suspended

    Spring, Texas... Y'all...
    Robert Kennedy, Jr. is an envronmental whacko....I put no credibility whatsoever in anything he says or does. He is hell bent on sending civilization back to the Stone Age.

    But, of course, that's just my opinion.
  5. airfrogusmc

    airfrogusmc Suspended

    Oak Park Illinois
    Hey Bob,

    I live right next door to Chicago and if not for these stone age environmental laws that by the way have been under assault now for over 5 years the crap hole the Chicago river was in the 1960s is now safe to swim in and there are now multi million dollar condos along the river that would have been impossible 20 years ago. A good environment is good for everyone!! Not just the nut bags trying to keep big business from not doing what they'd have been for decades. the lake (Mich.) is where we and millions drink from and there are so many PCBs in the lake from industry that the fish that people catch are not safe to eat.
  6. Biltmore Bob

    Biltmore Bob Suspended

    Spring, Texas... Y'all...
    Man, I wouldn't live up north on a drunk bet.

    Whatever, Froggy, Kennedy is still a nut job.
  7. BellyTank

    BellyTank I'll Lock Up

    Yeh Allen- Kennedy's a raving nut bag and GWB is God's Good Guy on Earth.
    Get that straight...

    And Ralph?

  8. Dusty Rhodes

    Dusty Rhodes Suspended

    Panama City, Florida
    To stir up crap quite frankly. I recommend everyone just ignore it. :kick: Have a nice a day Froggy, and thanks for playing. Or go play in this sandbox: and watch how fast your rear end is handed to you.
  9. Biltmore Bob

    Biltmore Bob Suspended

    Spring, Texas... Y'all...
    Glad to see you are feeling better, BT!
  10. airfrogusmc

    airfrogusmc Suspended

    Oak Park Illinois
    Hey Dusty just a point a view and a lil sump'm to think about. 4 years in the Corps and I've had big and bad try to hand it to me. The big and bad are to me are the bros that didn't come back and I don't see you as one of those.

    Bob to me a Gov civilians that don't respect the military leadership and dismiss their wisdom in favor of politics puts all our bros in danger. I've seen it happen in my life time.

    Does anyone remember a time in history that a political leader didn't listen to his military leaders about military issues? In fact he fired people that didn't support his agenda.
  11. MK

    MK Founder Staff Member Bartender


    I get the impression that this thread was posted to stir up trouble. The title you gave it, "Lil sump'm for the conservatives here" is a dead give away. You are aiming it at people who you know are not going to like it.

    Most boards won't allow politics, some will even ban you for talking about it. I allow political subjects here because when I first opened the joint, I had a old school gentlemen's club in mind. The issues of the day were discussed and political discussions were embraced not banned at this establishments. The exchange of ideas is healthy and educational when done properly.

    This feels like a hand gernade was tossed in for effect. :mad:
  12. airfrogusmc

    airfrogusmc Suspended

    Oak Park Illinois

    Just thought I'd throw lil sump'm I was reading out for dicussion. Thought it said "from adventure to politics" on the invite. I didn't insult or threaten anyone with the post it was just a somethig that I thought was interesting.

    I don't always agree with allot of things I read here but ALWAYS try to post with respect and though I don't agree sometimes I would never threaten anyone or try and put them down for their views. In fact I would fight to my death for there right to express them.
  13. Zemke Fan

    Zemke Fan Call Me a Cab

    On Hiatus. Really. Or Not.
    You guys should watch this stuff for a living...

    Check out my personal Web site and judge my bona fides based upon my experience over the last 30 years. Not only did I draw the boundary lines for the largest wilderness area in the lower 48 states but I represented forest products companies for more than 20 years (until there was no more public timber industry in America). So, I've watched these environment/natural resouces fights up close and personal. The truth of the matter is that we've made great progress in America since the first Earth Day in 1969 and we're continuing to do just fine under GWB. Mark Rey is a personal friend of mine and I can tell you that he is as passionate about conserving America's forest resources as was his predecessor in the Clinton Administration. (He's certainly NOT the devil that RFK Jr. and others make him out to be.)

    The problem in American politics right now is that there is so much vitriol and distrust. Environmental politics is just one example. Read the papers every day and you can come up with a dozen more issue areas where everything for every player is "black and white." Well, it just ain't so. The way that U.S. laws and policies have been developed for 200+ years is something political scientists referred to as "conflict and compromise." Well, we've still got the conflict but a WHOLE lot of people have forgotten how to compromise.
  14. airfrogusmc

    airfrogusmc Suspended

    Oak Park Illinois
    "So they've got us surrounded, good! Now we can fire in any direction, those b*****ds won't get away this time!"
  15. Johnnysan

    Johnnysan One Too Many

    Central Illinois
    During my12-year stint as an investigator for the state EPA here in Illinois, I can tell you first-hand that I saw the positive changes brought on by environmental regulation and the damage done by those who saw them only as a deterrent to ever-increasing profits. It's too easy to get bogged down in the labels and name-calling when what is really needed is balance and compromise. Companies have a right to make a profit from their investments, but real environmental protection benefits everyone - liberals and conservatives alike.
  16. Biltmore Bob

    Biltmore Bob Suspended

    Spring, Texas... Y'all...
    Yeah, but Kennedy...

    for crying out loud, Kennedy?

    He's a freakin' nut job. He thinks Bush and Halliburton caused the Hurricane and Flood to destroy the Gulf Coast.
  17. Johnnysan

    Johnnysan One Too Many

    Central Illinois
    Like I said...

    ...the extremists on either side of the political spectrum are the ones whose opinions should be dismissed. They're easy to spot in the debate because they're always screaming to get their point across. There's no room for compromise with people like this - it's an all-or-nothing proposition.

    Sadly, those of us who are somewhere in the middle because we tend to see and understand both sides of an argument usually remain silent or are drowned out by the vocal minority. As a result of being conciliators who try to bring both sides to the table, we're usually labeled as "wishy-washy" or, God forbid, "flip-floppers."

    I have little use for extremists of any brand...they tend to whip up the passions of the populace and often lead them to do the incredibly asinine. History is full of examples (past and present) and everyone here can call to mind their favorite example, so I need not delve further.

    That said, I'm not a big fan of Robert Kennedy, Jr., but frankly, I consider him in the same league as Rush Limbaugh - a myopic, loud-mouthed jackass. It's discouraging to think that people of this ilk are given any credibility whatsoever - let alone, the attention of the mass media that feeds their slop to the complacently uninformed.
  18. Marlowe

    Marlowe One of the Regulars

    The Berglund Apartments
    Someone in the Crusades said it--and I can't remember if it was a Crusader or a Saracen: "God save us from true believers."
  19. Gee, would that be either Truman and MacArthur during the Korean War or Johnson and the generals in Vietnam? :rolleyes:

    Regards to all,

  20. Bebop

    Bebop Practically Family

    Sausalito, California
    Froggy, I know where you are coming from, but you can't tell me that you have missed the fact that while everyone is welcomed here and MK puts up with alot of political and religious topics and opinions that most other places don't even want to bother playing with, you are talking to mostly consevatives. After a couple of my post responses I realized that talking hats and jackets was a little less stressful and less irritating than God and Bush. When in Rome..... :cheers1:

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