@DD: you are certainly correct; those early 7823 G-1 jackets are indeed a cut above later model G-1's! I used to own a size 44 Cagleco 7823 afew years ago and it was one fantastic jacket! Congrats on yours. Nice Mae West life vest pick up too!
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m422a jacket
- Thread starter grummanf6f
- Start date
@DD: you are certainly correct; those early 7823 G-1 jackets are indeed a cut above later model G-1's! I used to own a size 44 Cagleco 7823 afew years ago and it was one fantastic jacket! Congrats on yours. Nice Mae West life vest pick up too!
I think ELC should ditch that size calculator. it doesn't work for me because I have a 39in chest and just below average height.. And the language used gives the impression to some that ELC does not cater to their sizes. This is partial reason that led me to Aero when buying a jacket last year.
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Dumpster Diver
Practically Family
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- 952
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- Ontario
I still cant believe how Much Cheese has to be Cut around here to go with the whines about the Fits and size of all your Jackets guys! what the heck!!!
So far I empathize to a point, but its really getting old after hundreds of posts that the arms, or chest or gotchee dont fit you right!
Get in shape or something..I duno.
opcorn:
If they are MILITARY spec. Jackets, Order yours a few sizes bigger and take it or leave it!
I mean, my Gramps Told me the Joke about the Wool Pants back in WWII.
Private: sir, these pants are too big!
Sergeant: do they hurt you under the Armpits
Pvt: Yes sir.
Sergeant: then they FIT!
(And I could see why, wool Shrinks in all weather and had to last and last, but these were what you LIVE in 12 months of the year during operations...Its basically your home, If you got them way too big for you, they would shrink enough Just to fit *That Much* IMO. I figure Leather will shrink anyway over time, so order it a bit Bigger Just for good measure. why does the fit have to be so Damn *PERFECT* I realize some Jackets Just dont have the proper *Cuts* in em, but I expect for the price of the finer quality Jackets that someone has Taken care of it already for you as good as It gets.)
Also with the boots, were always issued a few sizes bigger, my Gramps told me they joke that was so you would stay standing up after you were shot.
So far I empathize to a point, but its really getting old after hundreds of posts that the arms, or chest or gotchee dont fit you right!
Get in shape or something..I duno.
opcorn:If they are MILITARY spec. Jackets, Order yours a few sizes bigger and take it or leave it!
I mean, my Gramps Told me the Joke about the Wool Pants back in WWII.
Private: sir, these pants are too big!
Sergeant: do they hurt you under the Armpits
Pvt: Yes sir.
Sergeant: then they FIT!
(And I could see why, wool Shrinks in all weather and had to last and last, but these were what you LIVE in 12 months of the year during operations...Its basically your home, If you got them way too big for you, they would shrink enough Just to fit *That Much* IMO. I figure Leather will shrink anyway over time, so order it a bit Bigger Just for good measure. why does the fit have to be so Damn *PERFECT* I realize some Jackets Just dont have the proper *Cuts* in em, but I expect for the price of the finer quality Jackets that someone has Taken care of it already for you as good as It gets.)
Also with the boots, were always issued a few sizes bigger, my Gramps told me they joke that was so you would stay standing up after you were shot.
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I still cant believe how Much Cheese has to be Cut around here to go with the whines about the Fits and size of all your Jackets guys! what the heck!!!
So far I empathize to a point, but its really getting old after hundreds of posts that the arms, or chest or gotchee dont fit you right!
Get in shape or something..I duno.
If they are MILITARY spec. Jackets, Order yours a few sizes bigger and take it or leave it!
I mean, my Gramps Told me the Joke about the Wool Pants back in WWII.
Private: sir, these pants are too big!
Sergeant: do they hurt you under the Armpits
Pvt: Yes sir.
Sergeant: then they FIT!
(And I could see why, wool Shrinks in all weather and had to last and last, but these were what you LIVE in 12 months of the year during operations...Its basically your home, If you got them way too big for you, they would shrink enough Just to fit *That Much* IMO. I figure Leather will shrink anyway over time, so order it a bit Bigger Just for good measure. why does the fit have to be so Damn *PERFECT* I realize some Jackets Just dont have the proper *Cuts* in em, but I expect for the price of the finer quality Jackets that someone has Taken care of it already for you as good as It gets.)
Also with the boots, were always issued a few sizes bigger, my Gramps told me they joke that was so you would stay standing up after you were shot.
Dude, I ain't 'whining about fit', I'm telling the guy that sells Eastman that the Eastman size selector software keeps rejecting my size. Sheesh!
Dumpster Diver
Practically Family
- Messages
- 952
- Location
- Ontario
was not Talking about you specifically, anyway*sorry for misunderstanding.
[huh] Whats your size..Dude.
PS.
:dance:
[huh] Whats your size..Dude.
PS.
:dance:
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Otter
One Too Many
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- 1,445
I was going to make a joke about being too big to be catapaulted off a carrier and having to join the Air force but.....
In all seriousness, I think it is an issue with the size of the goat skins that are available. They are on the small side and just no big enough to make the back pannel in the correct one piece. If you talk nicely to Bill Kelso, I believe they had a source for some larger skins and might be able to come up with a solution. Let me know what colour of mouton you go go for. Another nice add is to get hold of one of the old silk liferaft charts of the Pacific and get it sewn into the lining across the back. Gives prevailing winds and currents and looks very nice in a jacket.
In all seriousness, I think it is an issue with the size of the goat skins that are available. They are on the small side and just no big enough to make the back pannel in the correct one piece. If you talk nicely to Bill Kelso, I believe they had a source for some larger skins and might be able to come up with a solution. Let me know what colour of mouton you go go for. Another nice add is to get hold of one of the old silk liferaft charts of the Pacific and get it sewn into the lining across the back. Gives prevailing winds and currents and looks very nice in a jacket.
Yeah, that could be an issue. I also think that the WWII issue jackets were much trimmer than the later G-1s from the 70's onwards, but I have no evidence to support that.
Otter
One Too Many
- Messages
- 1,445
I had a 422 by RMNZ, it was site trim to size, ended up selling it on, very nice jacket though.
Edward
Bartender
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- Location
- London, UK
Had achance at the weekend to see an ELC M422a and an ELC G1 beside eaich other. The collar on the G1 was fractionally smaller, but the fit didn't look significantly different between the two. [huh]
I think you may be right about the jackets blossoming out in the body from the '70s onward a bit.
According to Moore's site, the M-422s tended to be longer in the body than the G-1 and it looks like some manufacturers wore big. On the other hand, it seems that the early G-1s were shorter in the body and wore a bit small for their size. I think the G-1s in the '70s were cut a bit looser and my late model Pharr seems pretty roomy around the middle though that might be my middle aged middle talking.
http://moorecustom.com/jackets/Moore_Jackets_navy.htm
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I'm a huge fan of the M-422a/G-1 jackets and own or have owned quite afew. I loved my ELC M-422a (it was the older version with a "Gordon & Ferguson" label). Sadly I outgrew it (it was a 44 long but now I'm more comfortable in a 46 long). About 15 (?) years ago, when I was quite a bit leaner, I had the Eastman 55-J-14; awesome jacket but that one was a 42 long and it was a military snug fit on me and I sold it. I have a BK M-422 (the Willis & Geiger version) and a cool Cockpit vintage G-1 (very cool jacket, if not exactly authentic in all the details).
I've seen the Real McCoys G-1 in a retail store in NYC ("Blue in Green" in Soho) but it was not to my liking; it looked way too "repro" to me.
From what I have heard, there are very good reviews of the GW M-422 jacket but not sure I can wait 18-24 months for it (and it's a bit out of my comfort range as far as price goes).
Used to have an original W&G but it was in only mediocre condition with some flaking of the leather near the shoulders; also had a nicely restored Gordon & Ferguson M-422a but sold it after afew years. These days I prefer a new jacket (less angst about accidental damage when wearing it).
I think my next M-422a purchase would be an ELC M-422a in 46 extra-long, perhaps in the time-worn finish. Either that or their 55-J-14. For me, the Eastman is my best all-around choice (fit, finish, sizing options, value/cost, availability/wait time upon ordering, etc).
Just my 2 cents.
I've seen the Real McCoys G-1 in a retail store in NYC ("Blue in Green" in Soho) but it was not to my liking; it looked way too "repro" to me.
From what I have heard, there are very good reviews of the GW M-422 jacket but not sure I can wait 18-24 months for it (and it's a bit out of my comfort range as far as price goes).
Used to have an original W&G but it was in only mediocre condition with some flaking of the leather near the shoulders; also had a nicely restored Gordon & Ferguson M-422a but sold it after afew years. These days I prefer a new jacket (less angst about accidental damage when wearing it).
I think my next M-422a purchase would be an ELC M-422a in 46 extra-long, perhaps in the time-worn finish. Either that or their 55-J-14. For me, the Eastman is my best all-around choice (fit, finish, sizing options, value/cost, availability/wait time upon ordering, etc).
Just my 2 cents.
Yep, that would match my experience. My WWII repro USN jackets are all super-slim; sized 50 and can only get a T-shirt underneath. My issue jackets from the 70's and one from the 90's are all 48, but I can get a sweatshirt underneath.
That brings up an interesting question.
Do repro makers follow original patterns, or do they put original details on modern patterns? What I mean is that, if a particular WWII maker had historically short sleeves, will the modern repro? Or do repro makers smooth out the rough edges of the originals.
Obviously, this might not apply to GW since they make jackets to size.
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Do repro makers follow original patterns, or do they put original details on modern patterns? What I mean is that, if a particular WWII maker had historically short sleeves, will the modern repro? Or do repro makers smooth out the rough edges of the originals.
Obviously, this might not apply to GW since they make jackets to size.
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That is an interesting question. The Aero M422a that I got last year was based on Willis & Giger patterns from John at Goodwear (IIRC). Aero originally sent me one made to their Gordon & Fergusson pattern, but there was a strange effect due to the pattern changes over the size increase, where by the time you got to a 50 inch chest, you needed to have the body proportions of a gorilla to make it fit. Of course, Ken Calder is an absolute gentleman, and took care of me perfectly.
But to sum up, I know that Goodwear and Aero are using real wartime contract patterns.
