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Made In USA?

Fifty150

One Too Many
Messages
1,954
Location
The Barbary Coast
It used to be that something Made In USA was certain to be a quality item. Other countries as well. You wanted things Made In England, Germany, Italy, et cetera. We also used to frown on Made anywhere in Asia...... Taiwan, China, Japan, etc.

Does it still matter to anyone? Nike and iPhones made in China. My Harley Davidson has a carburetor made by Keihin in Japan. My Ford is Made in Turkey. Honda is Made In Ohio. My Jim Green boots are Made In South Africa. I carry a Mora, Made In Sweden.

Are people still consciously selecting consumer goods based on country of origin? Does anyone care anymore? Major League Baseball and The NBA are importing players from across the globe.



img_20240614_183119638_2_d0ad2e26f9e9ae7f5192e27a403f272d2b3674f8.jpg
 
Messages
10,749
Location
My mother's basement
^^^^^
Final assembly plants might be here in God’s Country, but the components being assembled into a complete automobile or airplane or whatever come from hither and yon.
 

Fifty150

One Too Many
Messages
1,954
Location
The Barbary Coast
Final assembly plants might be here



Final assembly can mean almost nothing. Yet, it means everything. I have personally seen factories where they glue together a few pieces, or put a cover on with a few screws, and then label it as "Made In USA". The worst was actually watching workers sew on "Made In USA" labels on clothes, which they completed by sewing together 1 or 2 seams. Imagine boxes of pants shipped from some other country, then the US worker sews the hem shut, and adds a Made In USA label. It does employ a factory full of US labor. But it's also deceptive.
 

GHT

I'll Lock Up
Messages
9,540
Location
New Forest
Looking at British made products, a UK perspective. From 1870 to 1960, manufacturing played a key role in the development of the economy, underpinning success in other sectors and securing rising living standards. The subsequent sixty odd years, from 1960, have witnessed a relative decline of the UK manufacturing sector, relative to other sectors of the economy, and relative to the manufacturing sectors in other countries.

It can be argued that the relative decline of manufacturing is a natural outcome of the development of advanced economies, and the counterarguments suggesting that decline of UK manufacturing reflected economic weaknesses and structural imbalances. My assessment, in the case of the UK, the relative decline of manufacturing has reflected deep-rooted structural problems. In particular there has been a chronic failure to invest in manufacturing, with the UK economy and investment being instead skewed towards short-term returns and the interests of the ‘City.' (The City being a euphemism for the financial sector.)

This is an interesting thread and a fascinating topic, I will resist further comment for now, and look forward to Lounger's responses.
 

Olumin

New in Town
Messages
43
Location
EU
Good quality goods can come from anywhere. The reverse is equally true. This is common sense. A company needs not represent the views of their nation’s government. People who put genuine passion into their work and businesses are everywhere around the world. In the end we are all human; not American, German or Chinese. We are all far more similar than we are different. To separate yourself from others in this manner, is to separate you from yourself.


In our globalized world, borders and nationalities are becoming increasingly irrelevant. We learned that working together brings about the greatest good for everyone. This is how humanity got to where it is today. Not through their intelligence or tools alone, but through cooperation. This is the basis for all civilization and society.


Xenophobia, Racism, Patriotism; the thinking of "be wary of strangers", "them and us", "our tribe is the best tribe", was useful to us for many millennia, and it served us well. But then we went beyond simple short-term thinking, and we learned that cooperation brings about more abundance than separation. This was always true, and the natural development is for this cooperation to continue and eventually encircle more and more. From the family to the tribe; Tribe to village; village to city; city to kingdom; kingdom to nation; nation to league of nations; league of nations to the whole world. This "blending" continues until borders become meaningless and there will be only one "nationality"; Human. Our "tribe" expands to include the whole world. This is simply how nature works, it is self evident, and the only way to secure our long-term survival as a species. Everything else will result in imbalance, and eventually, destruction.


You can embrace this or fight it, but nature will get its way in the end. Before China was known for cheap goods, they were famous for high quality exports. This is now becoming true once again. Chinas economy is shifting, and wages are rising. Some countries may be slower to catch up then others, but those counties often develop faster, because they already know what to do and what to avoid, by learning from those that came before them.


When every country is a "first world country", when our environmental and safety standards eventually reach every corner of the world; then who will be left to manufacture our cheap goods we have gotten so used to? Who will provide the slave labour? Who will tolerate the polluting and dangerous working conditions? These practises, while neither good nor evil, are ultimately self defeating. Our economy will have to change to accommodate this shift. We are in a transition period as a species right now, and have been for some time. Transitions are rarely smooth. Things that worked and were true for millennia and now no longer working. The future will be worth it, but it will also be very different.
 
Messages
10,749
Location
My mother's basement
Is it true that goods made (in whole or in part) in Guam and American Samoa and the Northern Marianas can carry the “Made in USA” label?

In a box around here somewhere I have a semi-calado straw “golf” hat I acquired 20 or more years ago that was almost certainly woven somewhere other than the USA, yet its cloth sweatband carries a “Made in USA” tag. So I’m guessing the sweatband and hatband were installed somewhere on American soil.
 

photo2u

Call Me a Cab
Messages
2,136
Location
claremont california
My good friend who worked in the leather jacket making industry. He was asked to sew USA label in boxing gloves. He refused and kind of was black balled out of some nice jobs. However, the company that was actually doing that, got busted and some people did short stretches in county. Nice product but actually was from Pakistan.
 

Nacho

Practically Family
Messages
588
My good friend who worked in the leather jacket making industry. He was asked to sew USA label in boxing gloves. He refused and kind of was black balled out of some nice jobs. However, the company that was actually doing that, got busted and some people did short stretches in county. Nice product but actually was from Pakistan.

I’m curious. Was it Dann?
 

photo2u

Call Me a Cab
Messages
2,136
Location
claremont california
I just got in to the US today. I was in San Felipe and visited him. At his age, He still doing some excellent boat upholstery. Next time I see him I will let him know to check in the forum. He does have a little internet service but he does not use it much. My self, I am doing ok. Today, I was requested to be present at my neighbor's High School grandson celebration. The taco man is there and I can smell those flavors. Tacos never get old for me. lOL.
Take good care!
 

Nacho

Practically Family
Messages
588
I just got in to the US today. I was in San Felipe and visited him. At his age, He still doing some excellent boat upholstery. Next time I see him I will let him know to check in the forum. He does have a little internet service but he does not use it much. My self, I am doing ok. Today, I was requested to be present at my neighbor's High School grandson celebration. The taco man is there and I can smell those flavors. Tacos never get old for me. lOL.
Take good care!

Nice. Enjoy yourself. Would love to meet and buy you guys lunch when I'm down in California next time.

Take care now,
 

AbbaDatDeHat

I'll Lock Up
Messages
8,736
Good quality goods can come from anywhere. The reverse is equally true. This is common sense. A company needs not represent the views of their nation’s government. People who put genuine passion into their work and businesses are everywhere around the world. In the end we are all human; not American, German or Chinese. We are all far more similar than we are different. To separate yourself from others in this manner, is to separate you from yourself.


In our globalized world, borders and nationalities are becoming increasingly irrelevant. We learned that working together brings about the greatest good for everyone. This is how humanity got to where it is today. Not through their intelligence or tools alone, but through cooperation. This is the basis for all civilization and society.


Xenophobia, Racism, Patriotism; the thinking of "be wary of strangers", "them and us", "our tribe is the best tribe", was useful to us for many millennia, and it served us well. But then we went beyond simple short-term thinking, and we learned that cooperation brings about more abundance than separation. This was always true, and the natural development is for this cooperation to continue and eventually encircle more and more. From the family to the tribe; Tribe to village; village to city; city to kingdom; kingdom to nation; nation to league of nations; league of nations to the whole world. This "blending" continues until borders become meaningless and there will be only one "nationality"; Human. Our "tribe" expands to include the whole world. This is simply how nature works, it is self evident, and the only way to secure our long-term survival as a species. Everything else will result in imbalance, and eventually, destruction.


You can embrace this or fight it, but nature will get its way in the end. Before China was known for cheap goods, they were famous for high quality exports. This is now becoming true once again. Chinas economy is shifting, and wages are rising. Some countries may be slower to catch up then others, but those counties often develop faster, because they already know what to do and what to avoid, by learning from those that came before them.


When every country is a "first world country", when our environmental and safety standards eventually reach every corner of the world; then who will be left to manufacture our cheap goods we have gotten so used to? Who will provide the slave labour? Who will tolerate the polluting and dangerous working conditions? These practises, while neither good nor evil, are ultimately self defeating. Our economy will have to change to accommodate this shift. We are in a transition period as a species right now, and have been for some time. Transitions are rarely smooth. Things that worked and were true for millennia and now no longer working. The future will be worth it, but it will also be very different.
So i gather your answer to the Op’s question is no???
 

Benny Holiday

My Mail is Forwarded Here
Messages
3,768
Location
Sydney Australia
It's hard to get into economics without veering into the dreaded banned politics. All I will say is, there is precious little manufacturing in Australia, which was once a nation that proudly produced its own cars, furniture, electronics and any number of goods, and indeed invented many innovations such as the black box flight recorder used in airplanes, the electronic pacemaker, cochlear implants, even the ultrasound scanner.

Certain elements in the government back in the 1970s decided, without public consultation, to sign Australia up for the UN's Lima Agreement. One of the nations that most benefited from this agreement, which required Australia to reduce its manufacturing capabilities by around 30% (now ballooned to about 90%) and to commit to import that amount from other preferred countries, is China, currently a superpower throwing its military weight around throughout the south Pacific region.

Made in Australia? Sadly, not anymore.
 

Olumin

New in Town
Messages
43
Location
EU
So i gather your answer to the Op’s question is no???
My intention was not to dictate or present my own wisdom as the only truth, but to deliver, explain and show what simply IS, so others can understand my reasoning and form their own conclusions. But I do not claim to be unbiased, that would be impossible. What conclusions have been drawn? What do you think?

It is not about what’s right. What’s right is meaningless, it’s subjective, dependent on context. Too many decisions are made based on what’s "right". When we make a choice based on what’s "right", do we make a choice at all, or do we simply follow the choice someone else has laid out for us? We make a choice to not make a choice, because it is convenient, because we do not have to take responsibility. But a decision to not make a decision is still a choice. We are still responsible. The trolley problem is solved, and the solution is that there never was a problem, that there never was a dilemma.

It is about what serves us as we are now. About what is helpful and what is not, in the long term. What gets us to where we want to be? Who we want to be? That is the important question, the only question. Who do we want to be, as individuals, as a society, as humanity? Why do we want it? Does what we do serve that goal? Do we want to be united, or divided? Do we choose abundance, or scarcity. Do we choose love and acceptance, or fear and rejection. To survive, or to go extinct? To thrive, or to wither? To progress, or to stagnate?

What world do we choose for ourselves, and how do we get there? I cannot answer all this on behalf of everyone, I do not have that right. What I can do is ask the questions. Through our answers to those questions, we define who we are, who we want to be.

So far we have often chosen fear, scarcity and separation. Do those choices still serve us? Have those choices brought about the desired results? Is the world the way we want it to be? Could it be "better"? There has already been some progress in the name of abundance, unity and acceptance. How was it brought about? What decisions were made, and what motivated them? What price had to be paid, and was it worth it? If you are truly happy with the world as it is, then there is nothing else to do.
 
Messages
10,749
Location
My mother's basement
I have nothing but anecdotes, so with that in mind …

My everyday attire since my teen years (and that’s going back quite a ways now) includes blue jeans and what we used to call tennis shoes (you know, canvas tops, rubber soles). My preferred varieties of each are, in the first case, Levi’s, and, in the second, Converse All Stars.

Both used to be made in the USA. Neither is anymore. And neither is of the same quality anymore, either. I still have Converse All Stars I bought new more than 30 years ago. And yes, they’re pretty raggedy at this point, but they are still intact. The ones I’ve bought in more recent years fall apart, the soles separating from the uppers, within a year or so, and the soles themselves wear thin before that. And Levi’s? The ones from back half a century and more ago, the “red tags,” the “shrink-to-fit” variety, were stiff when new and had to be washed in hot water (the rinse ran a dark blue) and dried in a hot dryer before being worn. And they, like the Converse All Stars of bygone years, lasted through years of regular use. It’s because they aren’t of such a superior quality anymore that I find myself buying other brands of blue jeans — Wranglers, for instance — because they can be had for about a third the price.

Goods of the same or even superior quality could be made in Outer Bum**ck. This drop in quality has little to do with where the things are made. Labor is less expensive in those places where such manufacturing has migrated, but those lower-paid workers are every bit as capable of producing a quality product as their American counterparts. A sweatshop is a sweatshop, be it in Hanoi or Hoboken. But all materials are not equal, nor are all manufacturing processes.
 
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Messages
13,415
Location
Orange County, CA
My good friend who worked in the leather jacket making industry. He was asked to sew USA label in boxing gloves. He refused and kind of was black balled out of some nice jobs. However, the company that was actually doing that, got busted and some people did short stretches in county. Nice product but actually was from Pakistan.
China became very adept at playing the label game. They own leather, textile and apparel factories in Italy, but instead of moving production to China they brought in their own workers — Italy has a sizable Chinese population of over 300,000 — because they can pay them less than Italians and, most important, their products would still bear the prestigious “Made in Italy” label.
 
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photo2u

Call Me a Cab
Messages
2,136
Location
claremont california
I see that modern day sweat shop. Workers should get paid the same as the local workers. I heard that some foreign work forces are in fact N. Koreans. N. Koreans are sending more and more workers all over the world.
 

Edward

Bartender
Messages
24,904
Location
London, UK
I have zero interest in (or time for) 'buy local' drives that are flag-waving and nativist in nature. I do, however, like to support small businesses and buy locally if its possible thinking about niceties like air miles, environmental impact, and an awareness that the workforce are treated decently, which I know is not the case everywhere (though ill-treatment in sweatshops is not the given for every product made in the Far East that a lot of Western chauvinism likes to think). The bottom line is, though, not everything I require is made locally (there's precious little manufacturing remaining in the UK), and often on an academic salary living in London I simply can't afford UK-made. All other things being equal, I can't say I prize any particular point of origin of an imported product over any other as a guarantee of quality or much else. Some US manufacture and much Japanese isn't an option I tend to entertain simply because 99% of what I like is beyond the reach of my budget.

I'd love to be in the zone where I could make all sorts of subjective judgements, but the bottom line is financial reality will dictate a lot about what I buy, and where it is made. That may change, of course - when the pound was worth something about fifteen years ago I did buy quite a lot in the mail from the US.
 

Fifty150

One Too Many
Messages
1,954
Location
The Barbary Coast
the bottom line is financial reality will dictate a lot about what I buy, and where it is made



That's the reality for most of us. If we can't afford it, we buy what we can afford.

We live in a global economy. We have to participate in trade. And we can't possibly "buy local" for everything. Good luck with buying local gasoline, made with local oil. Depending on where you live, you'll have a hard time buying local food.

For most of my purchases, the decision is based on pricing. When I buy a pair of boots from South Africa, I don't question how that boot is made, the local economy of the workers, what the working conditions are in the factory, and if it's sustainable to ship a pair of shoes from South Africa. All that I care about is that it was on sale, and I got it at a good price. Do people in Asia question rice from The USA? They just eat the rice.
 

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