RBH
Bartender
- Messages
- 15,238
Egg, I have cleaned a couple at atime. Just try and clean light colored hats first and and dark hats last.
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Naptha and Spray on Hat cleaner result.
- Thread starter Magus
- Start date
- Messages
- 10,524
- Location
- DnD Ranch, Cherokee County, GA
+1
sulla
One of the Regulars
- Messages
- 123
- Location
- Indinapolis, IN, USA
I assume this method does not weaken the crease of the hat (even cleaned open crown)? What I mean is, after a dunkin'n'dryin' the hats went back to shape pretty easily? Maybe a little steam is needed and what not?
DavidJ
One of the Regulars
- Messages
- 190
- Location
- Norman, Ok
EggHead mentioned foxing, what is that? Also, I've read here that you don't want to spot treat using naptha, as it will simply move the dirt/grime to another spot.
riccardo
Practically Family
- Messages
- 516
- Location
- Sicily - Italy
Hi,
since some years I'm searching for anyone could tell me what naptha is (in italian) ; here we call nafta the diesel fuel...maybe naphta is the liquid fuel for domestic stove?
Best regards.
Riccardo.
since some years I'm searching for anyone could tell me what naptha is (in italian) ; here we call nafta the diesel fuel...maybe naphta is the liquid fuel for domestic stove?
Best regards.
Riccardo.
jkingrph
Practically Family
- Messages
- 848
- Location
- Jacksonville, Tx, West Monroe, La.
Naphta is a fairly light petroleum distillate, highly refined to the point it is almost odorless. You might check and see what dry cleaners use, that is usually a form of naphta
I have no idea what liquid fuel is used in stoves there. I spent a couple of years in Turkey, 40 years ago and they used bottled gas, and some used what we call kerosene.
Naphta is not, I repeat not diesel fuel. Diesel is oily and has a rather strong odor and you do not want to use it on your hats.
riccardo
Practically Family
- Messages
- 516
- Location
- Sicily - Italy
MAny thanks , I was near to use stove fuel (kerosene...!!!) many thanks!!!!
I'll check to a dry cleaner.
Many thanks again.
Best regards.
Riccardo.
- Messages
- 10,524
- Location
- DnD Ranch, Cherokee County, GA
Naptha is similar to Coleman Stove & Lantern fuel = white gasoline.
Naphtha is not almost odorless. It has a strong petrochemical odor and is highly toxic.
In the event that you should decide to use this product, be sure to work in a very well ventilated area (and limit respiratory exposure to an absolute minimum).
barrowjh
One Too Many
- Messages
- 1,398
- Location
- Maryville Tennessee
I'm impressed with all the safety attitude.
I boil water using a large pyrex measuring pitcher in the microwave, then set it aside and then put another pitcher in the microwave. I put a pint jar of coleman fuel in the 1st pitcher to start heating up, loosen the lid a little of course, and then after the second pitcher starts boiling I switch them around, keeping the jar in absolutely hottest water but not on any actively hot stove in case the jar breaks. I do this until I have that fuel very hot. With the hat already steamed out to open crown, sitting upside down in a plastic tub with the sweatband turned out (this is outside on the porch), then I pick up that jar with a towel and take it out there and pour it into the crown of the hat and let it drip through, helping to pull grease out of the old crease lines. Lift the hat a bit, and after there is none sitting in the crown, turn the hat over and, using a clean paint brush, use the naptha that is sitting in the bottom of that tub (or from a 2nd hot jar) and 'paint' a light coat onto the entire exterior of the hat (usually the brim is the only part of the felt not already saturated at this point). Turn it right-side up and let it dry on a pole. I have never left a hat crown soaking in it for more than a few seconds, but that is not a bad idea, may try that someday.
I used to use gloves, but they were such a nuisance, especially when my methods really do not cause a lot of skin contact anyway, mostly just the fingertips where I am holding the saturated felt by the brim. Yes, it stinks, don't clean a hat indoors!
this process is described in the reprinted copy of Ermatinger's 'Scientific Hat Finishing and Renovating' (original 1919) on pages 37 - 43. Of course it was meant for cleaning bundles of hats at a time, so you must 'interpret' it to fit what you can do in your circumstances. The discussion about heating the gasoline is described on the bottom of page 41 - 42. I have usually used the spray-on hat cleaner for dark hats (very similar to a spray-on carpet cleaner) on any spots and the crease lines already, let that dry and vacuum the hat again, before doing the naptha (coleman fuel) cleaning. Every now and then I get in a hat so pristine that it doesn't need cleaning, maybe one out of five or so. I have all the hats I need already, so nowadays I only get to do this if hunting down hats for someone else. I actually enjoy doing it. I'm sure the odors and skin exposure is a significant issue for someone doing this fairly regularly, but this happens like once every two or three months now, and my direct exposure is very limited in this process, not a significant risk IMHO.
Also, saturate that sweatband with lexol when you turn it out and while the water is heating up in the microwave, helps the leather 'fight off' the naptha, but some may find its way into the leather anyway, wicks in through the threads.
I boil water using a large pyrex measuring pitcher in the microwave, then set it aside and then put another pitcher in the microwave. I put a pint jar of coleman fuel in the 1st pitcher to start heating up, loosen the lid a little of course, and then after the second pitcher starts boiling I switch them around, keeping the jar in absolutely hottest water but not on any actively hot stove in case the jar breaks. I do this until I have that fuel very hot. With the hat already steamed out to open crown, sitting upside down in a plastic tub with the sweatband turned out (this is outside on the porch), then I pick up that jar with a towel and take it out there and pour it into the crown of the hat and let it drip through, helping to pull grease out of the old crease lines. Lift the hat a bit, and after there is none sitting in the crown, turn the hat over and, using a clean paint brush, use the naptha that is sitting in the bottom of that tub (or from a 2nd hot jar) and 'paint' a light coat onto the entire exterior of the hat (usually the brim is the only part of the felt not already saturated at this point). Turn it right-side up and let it dry on a pole. I have never left a hat crown soaking in it for more than a few seconds, but that is not a bad idea, may try that someday.
I used to use gloves, but they were such a nuisance, especially when my methods really do not cause a lot of skin contact anyway, mostly just the fingertips where I am holding the saturated felt by the brim. Yes, it stinks, don't clean a hat indoors!
this process is described in the reprinted copy of Ermatinger's 'Scientific Hat Finishing and Renovating' (original 1919) on pages 37 - 43. Of course it was meant for cleaning bundles of hats at a time, so you must 'interpret' it to fit what you can do in your circumstances. The discussion about heating the gasoline is described on the bottom of page 41 - 42. I have usually used the spray-on hat cleaner for dark hats (very similar to a spray-on carpet cleaner) on any spots and the crease lines already, let that dry and vacuum the hat again, before doing the naptha (coleman fuel) cleaning. Every now and then I get in a hat so pristine that it doesn't need cleaning, maybe one out of five or so. I have all the hats I need already, so nowadays I only get to do this if hunting down hats for someone else. I actually enjoy doing it. I'm sure the odors and skin exposure is a significant issue for someone doing this fairly regularly, but this happens like once every two or three months now, and my direct exposure is very limited in this process, not a significant risk IMHO.
Also, saturate that sweatband with lexol when you turn it out and while the water is heating up in the microwave, helps the leather 'fight off' the naptha, but some may find its way into the leather anyway, wicks in through the threads.
seed
Familiar Face
- Messages
- 79
- Location
- California
This. Does Naptha treatment eliminate the crease or bash? Does it remove stiffener applied by the hat maker and or owner(s)?
jkingrph
Practically Family
- Messages
- 848
- Location
- Jacksonville, Tx, West Monroe, La.
I am thinking most stiffeners are shellac based, in which case the solvent required to remove them would be alcohol. I doubt if naptha would eliminate creases as it is dry cleaner, not wet in the sense of wetting with water or steam.
Undertow
My Mail is Forwarded Here
- Messages
- 3,126
- Location
- Des Moines, IA, US
1. Naphtha does not reduce the stiffness/stiffener in your hat, however alcohol will.
2. Coleman Fuel = cyclohexane, nonane, octane, heptane, and pentane (according to MSDS), or A.K.A Naphtha. In other words, if you're paying $15 for a gallon of naphtha, but you can find Coleman fuel at Wal-Mart for $9, get the Coleman fuel (please note you probably shouldn't use straight naphtha in your coleman stove as the ingredients are likely different, with different additives, etc.)
3. Naphtha should not harm liners, sweats, ribbons or tags. However, if you're at all adept at hand stitching, you might consider removing the liner and ribbon while also covering the sweat as naphtha can dry out leather. Liners and ribbons can be cleaned in a 50/50 solution of distilled water and white vinegar. After a 4-8 hour naphtha soak, remove the hat, let dry in a well ventilated area, reattach liner and ribbon, uncover sweat, steam and recrease.
4. Kerosene is NOT naphtha.
5. Check the left over solvent after your first hat or two; it will probably be full of greasy, oily crud depending on how dirty the hat was to begin with. You can then filter and reuse as Tony mentioned.
6. Inhale this stuff as little as possible!
2. Coleman Fuel = cyclohexane, nonane, octane, heptane, and pentane (according to MSDS), or A.K.A Naphtha. In other words, if you're paying $15 for a gallon of naphtha, but you can find Coleman fuel at Wal-Mart for $9, get the Coleman fuel (please note you probably shouldn't use straight naphtha in your coleman stove as the ingredients are likely different, with different additives, etc.)
3. Naphtha should not harm liners, sweats, ribbons or tags. However, if you're at all adept at hand stitching, you might consider removing the liner and ribbon while also covering the sweat as naphtha can dry out leather. Liners and ribbons can be cleaned in a 50/50 solution of distilled water and white vinegar. After a 4-8 hour naphtha soak, remove the hat, let dry in a well ventilated area, reattach liner and ribbon, uncover sweat, steam and recrease.
4. Kerosene is NOT naphtha.
5. Check the left over solvent after your first hat or two; it will probably be full of greasy, oily crud depending on how dirty the hat was to begin with. You can then filter and reuse as Tony mentioned.
6. Inhale this stuff as little as possible!
seed
Familiar Face
- Messages
- 79
- Location
- California
Excellent post!
Mystic
Practically Family
- Messages
- 882
- Location
- Northeast Florida
This process sounds fairly easy and error free although probably kind of a hassle for a lot of people.
It still seems there is room in the process for screwing up a hat or making a total mess of some kind.
What chemicals do professional hat cleaners use and what is the common cleaning process used by professional hat cleaners?
Is there a long term effect of weaking materials such as stitching or leather?
It still seems there is room in the process for screwing up a hat or making a total mess of some kind.
What chemicals do professional hat cleaners use and what is the common cleaning process used by professional hat cleaners?
Is there a long term effect of weaking materials such as stitching or leather?
barrowjh
One Too Many
- Messages
- 1,398
- Location
- Maryville Tennessee
Mystic, the long term effect is definitely there. Most vintage sweatbands, even those in fairly good condition, have only a very limited number of 'turn out' trips left in them, and anyone doing this will eventually have a sweat that cracks away right along the thread line where it creases to turn out. So, that is a risk you must consider and be ready to absorb. I can tell you from experience that when you send a vintage hat to a full service hatter to be cleaned and refurbished the sweat band is going to be replaced anyway. Still, I have sent hats off for a refurbishment and will do so again if the situation warrants it. Typically that is when you've spent some serious money to get your hands on a vintage felt, like a nice cav edge brim 2 1/2+ in wide, and if the rest of the hat is not pristine consider sending it to a full service hatter for the full refurbishment. There is about zero risk to the ribbon and brim binding; the naptha might not clean it but it doesn't harm it. Any re-shaping of felt poses a risk if that felt has ever been creased too tightly (pinched) in its past, felt does 'break' and crease lines that are flexed too many times will also 'break' as if pinched. So, there are some risks. I just love working with the felt, so I'm not too concerned with the few times I've taught myself a lesson; the enjoyment of working with the felt and gaining some confidence in the process was well worth the goofs that went wrong. so far . . .
jkingrph
Practically Family
- Messages
- 848
- Location
- Jacksonville, Tx, West Monroe, La.
I just tried cleaning one using Coleman fuel. I got a tub big enough for the hat and 4 gal of fuel, enough to cover the hat, put it in and soaked for a while. It was a Stetson Open Road 4x that I had gotten used and noticed a bit of dirt in the top. I first vaccumed it well before starting.
A few times in the process I lifted it and let the fluid flow from inside the crown to the outside, and I also used an extension wand on an air compressor and bubbled air through a few times to really agitate the fluid.
When I finally took it out it looked better, there are still a couple of tiny dark spots which I suspect may be ballpoint pen stains, although they aren not readily noticable. It surprised me as to how quickly it dried, and that no odor remains. The solvent did not affect the bash or shape in any way. My wife said it smelled good and she does not like the odor of solvents. I had it outside in my shed and outside temp was upper 60's today. Took about an hour to dry with a little breeze from a fan.
It is noticeably brighter and cleaner especially on the top creases where they must have colllected dust for years in storage.
A few times in the process I lifted it and let the fluid flow from inside the crown to the outside, and I also used an extension wand on an air compressor and bubbled air through a few times to really agitate the fluid.
When I finally took it out it looked better, there are still a couple of tiny dark spots which I suspect may be ballpoint pen stains, although they aren not readily noticable. It surprised me as to how quickly it dried, and that no odor remains. The solvent did not affect the bash or shape in any way. My wife said it smelled good and she does not like the odor of solvents. I had it outside in my shed and outside temp was upper 60's today. Took about an hour to dry with a little breeze from a fan.
It is noticeably brighter and cleaner especially on the top creases where they must have colllected dust for years in storage.
I understand that it looks brighter and cleaner, but did it really remove those pox completely? May we see a photo of the hat now? Thanks!
barrowjh
One Too Many
- Messages
- 1,398
- Location
- Maryville Tennessee
wow, difficult to believe the soaking did not do some damage to the sweat band.
jkingrph
Practically Family
- Messages
- 848
- Location
- Jacksonville, Tx, West Monroe, La.
I was not too worried about that.. It was in good shape to start with and we shall see how it fares. If it does not hold up there is a hatter about 60 miles from here who can replace the sweat for me.
zetwal, I do not understand what you mean by "pox"
