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Notions about fit

navetsea

I'll Lock Up
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5,837
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East Java
nothing will survive 25 hard wear use, not even boots, surviving old jackets don't equal years and years of hardwear. I bet they also took off their leather jacket when working construction or in factory, but they just had one jacket and wear it often get wet in the rain probably kept wearing it until half dry when they arrived home with their motorcycles or bicycles and they do that for years probably then when it looks kind of old they buy a new one from catalogue again, and probably sold the old jacket or wear the old jacket for bad weather in theory but then it got into storage and never got worn again until he died
I've eluded to the "TFL Fit" in previous posts, which was a tailored, slim to skinny fit for jackets, which for many is not a functional fit. Sure it's great for static posing with arms at the side for doctored social media photos, but for dynamic reality, it's just not practical. Most people who actually use these jackets for work, riding, etc, the fits tend to be more "generous", or practical.

For certain body types, TLF Fit works well, but for myself it absolutely does not, because as I move stuff moves around and it makes the jacket terribly confining, and I adjust my expectations accordingly.

I think there are certain base line things that are universal, like having a sleeve past your finger tips, or shoulders sagging down to your bicep, my own definition of fit is the right equilibrium of comfort and flattering your appearance.

It's kinda funny really, because those in the past like the Brandos and such, wore jackets that if they were a random person posting here, forum members would say oh you need to tuck this, shorten that, etc etc.

In a much lesser extent, I liken it to my anecdotal observations with women and high heels. The few proclaim how they can wear them all day in comfort, look good in them and all that, which then leads to others following suit because they want to achieve the same look, but then are just laboring wearing them. A similar phenomenon happens with fit here with jackets. But that's fashion, and I hate fashion, and the irony is that the hipster work wear trend was supposed to be an anti-fashion statement, and yet...

Fashion oftentimes dictates fit, and currently the proper fit is a skinny cut. Rewind 30 years and the proper fit was far, far more generous. Suits these days are painted on, gym clothes now are all tapered, so the general consensus is slim fit, and this has carried over into this world, which I always found interesting because of all the attention paid to period correct, authentic reproductions, however the fit is nothing like those who wore them in photographs, the fit is always far far more modern.
Tfl fits means 2 sizes too big for styleforum fit
 
Messages
14,202
Location
Chicago
I’m going to be the same boring guy that repeats himself over and over and those pics just prove the point.

Your jackets aren’t short, your trousers are low rise. Also american half belts tend to be a bit longer I’ve experienced.

You can’t take a design made for a certain type of trouser style back in the day and wear it with a low rise and expect it to fit the same. Also people weren’t as tall as most of you are today. They will always look short when they really aren’t.

You can see a lot of differenr fits on vintage photos but the jackets are always in proportion.
I disagree. The jackets do look short because they are short. I’ll concede on height (a little) but in my experience there are plenty of 40’s and 50’s designs with 26” backs. They were not meant to be surcoats. This Knopf for example, is a 40’s classic Halfbelt with a 26” back.
9D4A1292-7456-4107-A345-4BBB2B23326E.jpeg
E2F02434-86FE-4E7B-B881-2918D46771A4.jpeg

Same with my campus, Westbury, Kurland and Marc’s Albert. I don’t believe jackets with 24” backs were designed to be worn “only with high waisted pants”. They were designed to be short jackets, regardless of the pants they are worn with.
 
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14,202
Location
Chicago
perhaps in the old days there are more short and wide (stocky?) built guys
No. The notion that human beings have evolved that dramatically is silly. Granted the average height/weight has changed, but not THAT much. The idea that vintage jackets need to be worn with pants around your belly button is absurd. There were a plethora of styles and lengths that were short, long and everything in between, built to that spec regardless of trouser rise.
 

navetsea

I'll Lock Up
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5,837
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East Java
I mean the short one like Marc's suede levis jacket clearly meant for someone who is wide on the shoulder and chest, but very short on the length of their limbs and perhaps body too, even in 3rd world country like where I live, my father was 170cm and he was considered tall in his generation, I'm 176cm and I was normal in my generation, and a little bit short when compared to younger generations.
 
Messages
14,202
Location
Chicago
I mean the short one like Marc's suede levis jacket clearly meant for someone who is wide on the shoulder and chest, but very short on the length of their limbs and perhaps body too, even in 3rd world country like where I live, my father was 170cm and he was considered tall in his generation, I'm 176cm and I was normal in my generation, and a little bit short when compared to younger generations.
Mass produced item with no singular customer in mind. That’s just the pattern, that one takes or leaves. At the height of low rise bell bottom jeans, Levi’s was making truckers with 23” backs.
 

Marc mndt

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4,625
No. The notion that human beings have evolved that dramatically is silly.
You are partially right. Americans indeed have not evolved that dramatically from the 30s to now:
According to the most recent study I could find (2018) the average height of an American male is 69.1 inches (175.4 centimeters), which is exactly the same average height as back in 1931.

height.png
...but the Dutch have
Unless you're Dutch :D

Dutch men were definitively shorter in the 30's and 50's.
upload_2021-1-27_13-10-43.png
 
Messages
14,202
Location
Chicago
Perfect example. Two jackets, same decade, likely sold side by side the same dept. store (can you even imagine that!??).
23.5” Californian:
824B84E1-F750-4BAA-9422-DE4A09D05448.jpeg

26” Campus:
62EAAC4E-C179-4DCD-9315-B7686C4EEC5D.jpeg

Shorter styles were intended to be short by design, not by influence of trouser rise. The Halfbelt is located at the same place on my back. I don’t believe the shorter style was intended solely for people who:
338FC3BD-A45B-4224-8A14-1EE874CBC7EC.jpeg

It’s a shorter style because it’s meant to be a shorter style. Imo, high waisted pants don’t make the jackets look better proportioned, they merely flip the equation, rather than the jacket looking short, the pants look long/high.
 
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14,202
Location
Chicago
The king of high waisted jeans

View attachment 423814
I know this debate has been revisited time and time again but I simply can’t be convinced that high waisted pants cure a shorter length jacket. The jacket will always be shorter. It’s meant to be shorter, not “healed” by pants rise. You take the shorter fit or you leave it. Simple as that. I like a shorter fit on certain jackets. Prefer longer on others. Plenty of wardrobe space for both imo.
 

MrProper

Call Me a Cab
Messages
2,363
Location
Europe
I know this debate has been revisited time and time again but I simply can’t be convinced that high waisted pants cure a shorter length jacket. The jacket will always be shorter. It’s meant to be shorter, not “healed” by pants rise. You take the shorter fit or you leave it. Simple as that. I like a shorter fit on certain jackets. Prefer longer on others. Plenty of wardrobe space for both imo.
The only thing that high waisted pants can fulfill is that a short jacket covers the belt, should someone have set up this advice for his taste.
 

Canuck Panda

One Too Many
Messages
1,573
The four jackets Marc showed in this thread confirmed the fact that not all jackets needs to look like another copy of the board racer. Getting the right size is the right fit. A single number doesn't tell the entire story. Every brand/maker past or present has their signature cut in their signature styles. The trick is to find the right overall size. Odds are 50/50.
 

dwilson

One of the Regulars
Messages
255
Location
LA
I'm in the "err on being too small" camp because I typically wear all my clothes a bit snug fitting. Just how I like to dress. Fit is extremely subjective. It kind of comes down to how you feel wearing it. My Iron Heart probably fit well but I couldn't shake the feeling I was a kid wearing my dad's blazer while wearing it. So I sold it. I then probably went a bit too small on my next Flat Head but I still feel like a million bucks wearing it.

I think geography may play a bit into this as well. Being in southern California rarely do I need to layer my jackets. Having extra room in them when 90% of the time I'm just wearing a tshirt under it wouldn't really work for me. But for the four season crew I'm sure having some extra room to put a sweat or a flannel under it means they would err on having a slightly larger jacket than I'd prefer.

Even fits most would say are "objectively wrong" aren't even that. 90s fashion revival is being talked about in other threads and if you want to see "objectively wrong" fits just look how Ross was styled in the earlier seasons of Friends. You'll see jackets with shoulders coming down damn near his elbows. If you like the look that's fine.
 

TooManyHatsOnlyOneHead

One Too Many
Messages
1,947
There is no ONE fit. Too many variables mostly tied to preference, trend, and to some extent function.

Iggy Pop can wear a jacket 2 sizes too small without a shirt on and be considered cool, while 2 decades later, a rapper can wear a jacket 2 sizes too big and be considered cool.

To me, whatever you wear, whether it be jacket, hawaiian shirt, fedora hat, etc. etc. you got to do it with swagger, especially if what you're trying to wear is considered out of the "norm". If what you're wearing doesn't make you feel good, then it will show.

Maybe I was just shell shocked after being home for so long with the lockdown, but after venturing out several times now, I'm amazed how many people dress like slobs. Full blown pajama bottoms, really ill fitting mismatched clothing, etc. But even with that look, occasionally I'll see someone pull it off because of how they carry themselves. I'm starting to think that maybe your personality has a factor in fit as well. I don't want to over generalize but more confident, more snug kind of thing. Don't get me wrong, I know some people are plenty confident and just want their clothes to be more comfortable LOL.
 

barnabus

Practically Family
Messages
926
Location
london
As I've got older my opinion has changed.

I'm more interested in being comfortable and less interested in whether my jacket looks like it fits perfectly.

And I'm much more relaxed and more confident in my self.

So as long as I'm happy, if someone doesn't think my jacket fits properly then frankly my dear I don't give a damn.
 

dannyk

One Too Many
Messages
1,794
Prince was the epitome of cool back where/when I was from. I have two white leather jackets and am getting a third one (in white leather). I also learned to play guitar in high school trying to be 1/10th as cool as Prince. But I get it, it was a different time then. Talent got guys laid, not just pretty faces and auto tune.

Purple Rain
Similar experience. I love The Clash and bassist Paul Simonon was my style icon I learned to play bass in 9th grade and can play rhythm just chords and power chords like Strummer or Johnny Ramone.
 

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navetsea

I'll Lock Up
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5,837
Location
East Java
Mass produced item with no singular customer in mind. That’s just the pattern, that one takes or leaves. At the height of low rise bell bottom jeans, Levi’s was making truckers with 23” backs.
Honestly/ secretly I'm OK with bolero type 3 jacket, my type 3s are borderline bolero on me, at least it is not as bad as too long boxy type3.
 

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