Panama Hat Thread

[Aureliano]

Interesting brim edge...

 

[Rabbit]

Montecristi Panama Optimo 17x21 (350wpsi)

Probably 1930s, judging from the sweatband. What a find! Perfect fit!

The sweatband has an enforced front section to prevent sweat from migrating through the leather and into the straw, similar to Borsalino's feature but executed in a different manner: It's done with what appears to be an extra layer of leather.

The shot below shows the sweatband at the front/side where the additional layer begins.

 

[BR Gordon]

Probably 1930s, judging from the sweatband. What a find! Perfect fit!

Congratulations Rabbit, that's a beauty, a great example of the optimo. What is the crown height?

 

[Rabbit]

Thank you, Gordon!

There is some whitish dried dirt all over the hat, especially at the brim towards the edge and at the Optimo line/crease. For lack of a better word, I would compare its consistency with dried white paint. It's somehow as if the hat had accumulated lots of dirt from being covered by debris, if the analogy helps to describe it. The whitish stuff is apparently what makes the hat more rigid as well.

Any ideas what it might be? I can wear it as it is, but perhaps it can be washed off? I've seen the same debris on other vintage Panamas - this one has quite a handful of it.

Any recommendations, Gentlemen?

 

[Aureliano]

Super Montecristi, Rabbit! I love it!

 

[alanfgag]

Very handsome form on your new panama, Rabbit. I'm not sure what that white powder is... I've also found it on vintage panamas in varying degrees, such as this recently acquisition that I haven't posted here yet.

 

[Aureliano]

I've seen it too and have used a lightly wet cloth to remove it.

 

[Joshbru3]

Probably 1930s, judging from the sweatband. What a find! Perfect fit!

Rabbit, AWESOME panama Optimo crown. It has a beautiful crown block with the very tall and straight sides. I LOVE IT!! Congrats!! :eusa_clap:eusa_clap

There is some whitish dried dirt all over the hat, especially at the brim towards the edge and at the Optimo line/crease. For lack of a better word, I would compare its consistency with dried white paint. It's somehow as if the hat had accumulated lots of dirt from being covered by debris, if the analogy helps to describe it. The whitish stuff is apparently what makes the hat more rigid as well.

Any ideas what it might be? I can wear it as it is, but perhaps it can be washed off? I've seen the same debris on other vintage Panamas - this one has quite a handful of it.

Any recommendations, Gentlemen?

Very handsome form on your new panama, Rabbit. I'm not sure what that white powder is... I've also found it on vintage panamas in varying degrees, such as this recently acquisition that I haven't posted here yet.

Very early in this thread, that white stuff was referred to as the "WHITE TREATMENT." I guess it was used because authentic Panama straws are not actually white, they are an off white due to the sulfur used in the bleaching process. Many years ago, a substance that was kind of like white paint was used to make the hat "whiter." I would contact Dinerman, because I know he received an old Stetson Panama with the white treatment on it and was able to remove most of it. The hat weighed quite a bit less. Here's the quotes from earlier in the thread.....

This one is on the way, unfortunately, I won't be able to post pictures of it for two weeks.

I managed to strip off most of the white treatment that had been put on this one. It looks much better now, and weighs about half what it did.

 

[Rabbit]

Thank you for the nice comments, Ale, Alan & Josh.
I'll contact Dinerman - thanks for the tip, Josh! That must be just the stuff. Dinerman's comment in the quote above about the hat weighing only half after removing the stuff sounds very very much like, as does the description (and the original purpose) of it. It's too consistently applied to be just some dirt that actually shouldn't be there.

 

[alanfgag]

Wow... half the weight... it must have been a lead based paint!

Here are some pictures of my recent panama. The crown needed blocking and there are a few areas where the straw is creased but not broken. Weave is not as even as some of my other vintage panamas, in the 450-500 wpi range. I now have 3 straw hats from Peoria, Illinois - each from different retail stores.

 

[Joshbru3]

Wow... half the weight... it must have been a lead based paint!

Here are some pictures of my recent panama. The crown needed blocking and there are a few areas where the straw is creased but not broken. Weave is not as even as some of my other vintage panamas, in the 450-500 wpi range. I now have 3 straw hats from Peoria, Illinois - each from different retail stores.

Very nice, Alan! I'm glad that one came out nice. Its pretty exciting to have 3 Panamas from Peoria, a bit more exciting than the town itself.......

 

[Rabbit]

I now have 3 straw hats from Peoria, Illinois - each from different retail stores.

Must be a nest there in the vicinity.

Very nicely blocked, Alan!

Here's a picture of the Optimo line at the crown front, showing the accumulation of the whitish paint-like stuff along the crease. Knowing about the white treatment's purpose, it's interesting to see that the crease's "wind shadow" got so much more of the stuff.
Edit: Coming to think of it, the crease area could be where the excess white treatment didn't get worn OFF.

 

[carouselvic]

Will they play there?

 

[Rabbit]

I asked Dinerman about how he removed the white treatment, here's his reply which I'm posting for the record (thanks, Dinerman!):

I used a Mr. Clean magic eraser. Just give it a light scrub with a damp one of those and it should take care of most of it without damaging the straw. Just be careful of the dripping "white" , because it will stain. Take special care in regards to the ribbon.

 

[Art Fawcett]

MG]
Any ideas what it might be? I can wear it as it is, but perhaps it can be washed off? I've seen the same debris on other vintage Panamas - this one has quite a handful of it.

Any recommendations, Gentlemen?

It's most likely corn starch variation Rabbit . This would indicate to me you are right on your dating of the hat. Back then the hatter would make up a paste & work it into the hat to make it whiter and stiffer. Please don't try to wash it out or it will be an all summer project. I tried many times when I was in the Vintage biz and was never completely successful. Just wear & enjoy!! What it leaves is a somewhat "blotchy" surface

 

[Art Fawcett]

Just read Dinerman's advise & I agree with him for a quick surface wash but nothing comprehensive

 

[Rabbit]

It's most likely corn starch variation Rabbit . This would indicate to me you are right on your dating of the hat. Back then the hatter would make up a paste & work it into the hat to make it whiter and stiffer. Please don't try to wash it out or it will be an all summer project. I tried many times when I was in the Vintage biz and was never completely successful. Just wear & enjoy!! What it leaves is a somewhat "blotchy" surface

Thank you for the detailed info, Art!
I'll follow your advice and wear the hat as it is. Since the hatters back in the day used this paste, there's no reason for me to try and remove it anyway.

An interesting side effect of the paste (at least I ascribe it to the paste) is that this particular hat looks more like a 500-600 wpsi than a 350 wpsi. The "spaces" in between the actual "knots" (for lack of a better word) are covered with the paste.
It helps, of course, that it is very evenly woven.

 

[Aureliano]

Vintage Penney's panama. I believe, by the little bits of fiber sticking out on the inside of the crown, that this one is actual toquilla treated with something that made it whiter and stiff as a cracker. Nevertheless, it's still light and I'm sure it'll be airy inside It came with a purple pug that I diligently replaced with a black one.

 

[Dinerman]

I think that's Bangora?

 

[Dinerman]