Pocketwatches

Discussion in 'General Attire & Accoutrements' started by Nathan Flowers, Sep 27, 2003.

  1. Woodtroll

    Woodtroll Practically Family

    Messages:
    791
    Location:
    Mtns. of SW Virginia
    Well, straight into the fire I have jumped. I put in a low-ball offer on this one based on very small spots of old, touched up rust on the mechanism, and the value posted on Pocket Watch Database, and the seller accepted my offer of less than $300!

    [​IMG]

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/103-YEARS-...vip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.m43663.l10137

    If I had a little more patience I might have found a better bargain, but this watch checks all my boxes of what I'm looking for, is supposed to keep time well, and will need only servicing. If I understand what I've read correctly, even though it is not railroad grade, this is a decent grade of watch mechanically. I HATE shopping, although I love learning about things, so I'm anxious to see how this looks in person and am glad to be done looking. The more I look, the more I justify spending more money on something "just a little better" that I probably can't really tell the difference in anyway.

    Thanks for all the information and feedback, I appreciate it very much!
    Regan
     
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  2. viclip

    viclip Practically Family

    Messages:
    559
    Location:
    Canada
    Very nice find, those 3-fingered Elgins are great watches.

    Thanks for sharing your first acquisition, I'd be interested in hearing how the watch fares once it's serviced ...
     
  3. Woodtroll

    Woodtroll Practically Family

    Messages:
    791
    Location:
    Mtns. of SW Virginia
    Thank you. The seller is a watch dealer and claims that it runs great and keeps good time already, and he doesn’t make that claim about most of his watches. But since I don’t know anything about its history I think a servicing is a good investment. I’ll keep you posted.
     
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  4. Woodtroll

    Woodtroll Practically Family

    Messages:
    791
    Location:
    Mtns. of SW Virginia
    Just a note... the watch arrived in great condition due to very careful packaging by the seller. I wound it, set the time by my quartz watch, and 24 hours later it had gained about 20 seconds; not too shabby for a watch that is almost twice as old as I am! It is very clean, the face and crystal are perfect, but there is some wear on the relatively plain case engraving. The pictures the seller posted are better than any I can take, so here are a few:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    I'm very pleased with this watch. Thanks for everyone's help and interest, and for the education, they are all greatly appreciated!
    Regan
     
  5. viclip

    viclip Practically Family

    Messages:
    559
    Location:
    Canada
    I'm glad that your first mechanical pocket watch acquisition, was positve. It looks like a great time piece, congrats!

    That it's gaining 20 seconds daily is no big deal, after servicing the rate will be adjusted by your watchmaker. I see that the regulator is currently set on the Slow side, so it may have a pre-existing tendency to run a bit fast. In any event 20 seconds per day can easily be compensated for using the regulator adjustment. The interesting question is whether the watch consistently runs 20 seconds per day fast, if so that's an excellent sign.

    Anyways you might enjoy seeing whether the watch will maintain railway time service specs of not gaining or losing more than 30 seconds per week. I'd wait until after servicing to tweak the regulator, with cleaning & lubricating & the routine de-magnetizing the watch will almost certainly exhibit a different rate.

    Enjoy ...
     
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  6. Shangas

    Shangas I'll Lock Up

    Messages:
    6,108
    Location:
    Melbourne, Australia
    For - what shall we say? $250? You bought a lovely watch!!

    I've dropped my two-glass Hamilton at my watchmaker friend's shop and he said he'd have it ready in a couple of weeks. I will sell this watch when he returns it to me, but the money from that will go towards another watch that I want him to service - another 992 hamilton, which I will keep.
     
  7. Trenchfriend

    Trenchfriend I'll Lock Up

    Messages:
    8,384
    Location:
    Germany
    Just for fun:



    But outstanding demonstration. :)
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2018
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  8. Trenchfriend

    Trenchfriend I'll Lock Up

    Messages:
    8,384
    Location:
    Germany
    I didn't thought about it before, but saw the topic now on youtube!

    Do you always press the crown on closing?
    Is it really always that important to close "smooth", avoiding to abrade the cover-notch??

    I looked on my absolutely basic-line storebrand pocketwatch, but it doesn't seems, that the cover-notch is abrading fast.
     
  9. viclip

    viclip Practically Family

    Messages:
    559
    Location:
    Canada
    For a hunting type pocket watch, I always press down the front cover release button located within the crown, when closing the front cover. Otherwise the steel lock spring will surely abrade the front cover, it's only a matter of time. Eventually the front cover will no longer stay closed.
     
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  10. Trenchfriend

    Trenchfriend I'll Lock Up

    Messages:
    8,384
    Location:
    Germany
    Now, I finally wanted to know, what quartz-movement works in my basic pocketwatch. So, I opened the back carefully one more time and I found promptly out, with the internet, that's it's a Morioka Singapore PC21S movement. Very tiny.
     
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  11. Trenchfriend

    Trenchfriend I'll Lock Up

    Messages:
    8,384
    Location:
    Germany
    New storebrand easy-reader quarz fun, my loungers! :) With a "Railroad Station Grade". :D:D

    I especially like the numbered. And on pocketwatches, I have no problem with white dials.
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Jan 17, 2019
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  12. Trenchfriend

    Trenchfriend I'll Lock Up

    Messages:
    8,384
    Location:
    Germany
    The quartz movements are again the tiny Morioka Singapore PC21S.

    PS:
    The "S" stands for Singapore. :D
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2019
  13. HanauMan

    HanauMan Practically Family

    Messages:
    804
    Location:
    Inverness, Scotland
    Nice plain face, looks like it was inspired by Swiss train station clocks. And I like that red second hand, looks classy. The case, though, reminds me of my old boy scout compass.
     
    Trenchfriend likes this.
  14. Trenchfriend

    Trenchfriend I'll Lock Up

    Messages:
    8,384
    Location:
    Germany
    My father got his 81. birthday, tomorrow. Maybe, I will gift him with the railstation-pocketwatch. I will decide tomorrow morning, if I kept it or not.

    At the moment, I'm not sure, if it's fair to gift someone with an simple open-face pocketwatch.
     
  15. Artifex

    Artifex Familiar Face

    Messages:
    65
    Location:
    Nottingham, GB
    This seems like a good place to show off my daily timekeeper:

    face.jpg

    movement.jpg


    A Hampden "New Railway" movement, c1907, in a Deuber case from the factory next-door. These don't seem to have been particularly popular (if the internet is to be believed), but the movement shows beautiful attention to detail, and runs both quietly and accurately.
     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2019
  16. viclip

    viclip Practically Family

    Messages:
    559
    Location:
    Canada
    A stunning timepiece!

    Not being able to make out the serial number on the movement, I was unable to research its particulars. It must have at least 19 jewels judging from the setting at the barrel arbor ~ is that a motor barrel or a jewelled traditional barrel?

    It must be 18- or 16-size, I'm guessing 18s since its got the full plate architecture. Do you know whether your superlative pocket watch was accepted or approved for railroad service by the American railway companies?
     
    busmatt likes this.
  17. Artifex

    Artifex Familiar Face

    Messages:
    65
    Location:
    Nottingham, GB
    See for yourself!
    catalogue_page.jpg

    Considering the branding and specifications, it seems very likely to have been approved for railroad use - though I don't know for certain.

    Considering the advertised "safety pinion", I'm fairly sure it's a normal going barrel, wound from a pinion on the arbour.
     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2019
    busmatt likes this.
  18. viclip

    viclip Practically Family

    Messages:
    559
    Location:
    Canada
    Good grief, what a horological gem!

    It's inconceivable to me that your watch wouldn't have been accepted for use on the American railways as the movement seems to meet all of the criteria. Ditto for the dial with its large black Arabic hours markers & big dark hands that even the most near-sighted railman could see. Have you plugged your serial number into the search engine at the pocketwatchdatabase.com site? The curator of that site generally notes such acceptance.

    That site will also provide production figures if available. Your watch was pretty pricey so if it doesn't seem popular I'd suspect that not all that many were bought due to the price point. Bear in mind too that Hampden was competing with the likes of Ball, Waltham, Elgin, Illinois & others who were after the railroaders market & also produced some awfully spectacular timepieces.

    Having a safety pinion to protect the center wheel & train in the event of the mainspring letting go, cetainly suggests that your watch doesn't have a motor barrel; anyways if it did, surely the pamphlet would have happened to mention that fact, just in passing of course.
     
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  19. viclip

    viclip Practically Family

    Messages:
    559
    Location:
    Canada
    I forgot that I have a "Combined List of Railroad Grade Watches". It does include the Hampden New Railway in its 23, 21 & 17 jewel versions for American railroad purposes.

    I also checked the Canadian Pacific Railway known schedules of approved watches. Hampdens aren't listed but nevertheless the New Railway likely would have been cleared by most CPR time inspectors because the watch conformed with the generally accepted requirements for railroad service. Hampdens may just not have been commonly available in Canada at the time.
     
    M Hatman likes this.
  20. Artifex

    Artifex Familiar Face

    Messages:
    65
    Location:
    Nottingham, GB
    PWD lists it as railroad-approved, based on observations of:
    • 2582982 (1909)
    • 2432439 (1908)
    • 2432157 (1908)
    • 2432124 (1908)
    • 2353647 (1907)
    • 2356519 (1907)
    • 1721580 (1902) (and a dozen others in the 1721*** range)
    • 1647736 (1902)

    Old catalogue images show that:
    • 2432101
    • 2566503
    ...were also New Railways

    The page on PWD also lists a few of the earlier 17J movements with the same name. I don't see any production figures, but repeated polling of PWD's serial number lookup tool* suggests that numbers 2432101 to 2432599 were all of this grade. So was the entire 1721001 to 1721999 range.

    I don't know how it determines the starts and ends of each production run (There are no factory records surviving), but it sounds like there must have been at least a few thousand of these made in total. Perhaps more.

    That leaves the question: What happened between 1902 and 1907?

    Aside, I was amused by the following quote from Hampden publicity material:

    Grandma says we little witches,
    Made her drop a dozen stitches
    But though we've hunted o'er,
    Every place: Her lap, the floor.
    Not a dropped stitch can we find,
    Grandma must be getting blind.
    - but if she's blind, I'm sure she's quick,
    To hear the Hampden watch's tick!


    * Note: PWD does not like this one bit, and starts introducing artifical delays on page loading, followed by "Are you a robot?" captchas!​
     
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