Quick uniform question...

[panamag8or]

I have my Grandfather's complete WWII discharge uniform, and was considering donning it for a photo, and perhaps keeping it around for vintage events. What is the protocol for insignias and such? What would I have to remove, in order to not violate military law, or worse yet, the patriot act?

 

[Dixon Cannon]

This is a good question!

I've got several WWII uniforms complete with insignia, rank, and battle ribbons. I also have a Luftwaffe pilot's outfit replete with swasitkas! I have never, ever been questioned about any insignia or uniform piece by anyone at any time.

There has been some casual conversation about the Luftwaffe kit, back at the time that our CAF was flying the Heinkel 111 around the retirement community of Mesa, Arizona! We seemed to agree that a historically accurate airplane with Luftwaffe livery isn't any more offensive or objectionable than the crewmembers uniform with similar markings. Case closed on that one.

You're talking to a guy who struts around in a Brigadier Generals tripical tan Class A uniform just to outdo his CAF buddies who are Colonels! Never any comments accept the expected jibes and a sloppy salute.

I am not personally aware of any law or regulation that prohibits the use or exhibition of a military uniform in a historical re-enactment. I would never attempt to access a military installation dressed in one of my kits, but I've certainly been on military bases for air shows in them - no problem. (They even allowed my cigarette prop!)

I wouldn't expect that you'd have any problem either Panama!

-dixon cannon

P.S. Now git in that uniform and show us a pitcher!!!

 

[Story]

What would I have to remove, in order to not violate military law, or worse yet, the patriot act?

Shirley, you jest*.

You want
AR 600-40, August 28, 1941
http://www.hardscrabblefarm.com/ww2/post_regulations.htm

and see this thread
http://www.thefedoralounge.com/showthread.php?t=15821&highlight=uniform+regulations

Once you get it assembled and before you go for your professional shots, you might want to take some test pics and let the WWII expert types 'check you out'.

* Federal law and the UCMJ are directed towards impersonating a current servicemember.

 

[mikepara]

Don't worry...

The fact that you are far too young to have been in the service during WWII should rule you out as trying to pass yourself off as an imposter wannabe. There is no law stopping you reenacting or honouring the serviceman.

It's those pretending to be someone else or wearing uniforms and medals they are not entitled to, whilst passing themselves off as veterans with invented or embellished military carears to revel in collective glory that the law is trying to stop.

Wear his uniform with dignity and pride and no veteran will be upset.

 

[Dixon Cannon]

...and another thing.....!!

I personally have a bug-a-boo about awards of valor. I hate to see the CMH, the silver and bronze star and the purple heart being worn by people who didn't earn them the hard way. I suppose in an acting situtation, portraying a particular inidividual soldier would be appropriate. But, those particular awards are hard won, especially the nations highest award the Congressional Medal of Honor. I wouldn't like to see their meaning diminished by casual wearing at reenactor gatherings.

Anyone else feel the same way?

-dixon cannon

 

[Dixon Cannon]

It's those pretending to be someone else or wearing uniforms and medals they are not entitled to, whilst passing themselves off as veterans with invented or embellished military carears to revel in collective glory that the law is trying to stop.

That happened here in Phoenix some years ago: "the exposure in 1985 of AZ Republic publisher Darrow "Duke" Tully as a phony war hero. Tully had arrogantly paraded around the community in an Air Force colonel's dress uniform, dripping with medals and spinning tales about being shot down in Vietnam and Korea, although he'd never served a day in any military service. Duke regaled John McCain and others with stories of his experience as an Air Force pilot in Korea and Vietnam. The wall at his office was replete with military plaques and certificates. Word got out that Tully's famous war record was a total fabrication, and Tully was forced to resign."

 

[Cobden]

I personally have a bug-a-boo about awards of valor. I hate to see the CMH, the silver and bronze star and the purple heart being worn by people who didn't earn them the hard way. I suppose in an acting situtation, portraying a particular inidividual soldier would be appropriate. But, those particular awards are hard won, especially the nations highest award the Congressional Medal of Honor. I wouldn't like to see their meaning diminished by casual wearing at reenactor gatherings.

Anyone else feel the same way?

-dixon cannon

I quite agree; over here, in the re-enactment groups I'm in, medals/ribbons are generally a no-no (which is easier to get away with as a Brit - and remain authentic - then with US portrayals), although ribbons are permitted where it would be inaccurate for them not to be worn (e.g. with RSM's) - but valor medal's are never to be worn.

The one exception 've come across is when portraying a specific person, who did have those medals at the time. If you are, say, portraying your grandfather, it would be acceptable.

 

[panamag8or]

I located an old thread from when I found the uniform, and described it. I guess if I wanted to portray him, I should find a WWII camera, since there is a photographer patch on the arm. I did have a german WWII camera, but it was pretty shot, so I got rid of it.(I think)

The other uniform thread

 

[Diamondback]

I personally have a bug-a-boo about awards of valor. I hate to see the CMH, the silver and bronze star and the purple heart being worn by people who didn't earn them the hard way. I suppose in an acting situtation, portraying a particular inidividual soldier would be appropriate. But, those particular awards are hard won, especially the nations highest award the Congressional Medal of Honor. I wouldn't like to see their meaning diminished by casual wearing at reenactor gatherings.

Anyone else feel the same way?

Amen, Dix. I'd also add any "elite forces" insignia, unless you're a member of a reenactor group that portrays a Ranger/UDT/other such "elite" unit, unless you have a really good reason. (If you're wearing it correctly, and your intention is to honor a friend or relative who earned the Tab or other such special insignia, I'd consider that grounds for a "pass"...)

This, aside from respect for the uniform and those who wore it, my own rank insignia (5-star--not to one-up you, Dix, but because of the combo of Mac carrying himself much younger than actual age, me carrying myself much older than same, and the particular depth of my research on him) will never be seen pinned to my collars except one day a year, unless I'm actively on the field and reenacting the General. (Slim odds, but might happen someday, although I'd have to be well back from the crowd...)

 

[Vladimir Berkov]

I don't understand why it would be acceptable to wear one uniform but not another? "Impersonating" an infantry grunt is acceptable but an "elite" Army ranger or paratrooper is not? It is OK to wear a uniform but not the medals?

I guess I just don't understand why you would draw the line there.

 

[Diamondback]

I guess I just don't understand why you would draw the line there.

VB, I guess with me it's just that I believe that Special Forces stuff has to be earned by the wearer, like the Silver/Bronze Stars, DSC/DFC, and such. And the MOH is in a truly special class by itself. I'd pitch a fit about someone who hadn't earned it wearing the President's Hundred marksmanship tab, too! It's just an extension of my beef with SEAL/Green Beret-impersonators, I guess, but a logical one...

At a bare minimum, I would ask that a reenactor portraying a Ranger or similar be familiar with the training requirements to be one, and at least be working toward them.

 

[Story]

I located an old thread from when I found the uniform, and described it. I guess if I wanted to portray him, I should find a WWII camera, since there is a photographer patch on the arm. I did have a german WWII camera, but it was pretty shot, so I got rid of it.(I think)

The other uniform thread

With the MOS of photographer, he'd have been part of the Signal Corps. You might find these volumes worth getting -
http://www.army.mil/cmh-pg/books/wwii/11-9/10-16.htm

These reenactors might be able to provide you with guidance on the Signal Corps insignia and uniform wear -
http://members.tripod.com/33rdscb/index.htm

 

[panamag8or]

With the MOS of photographer, he'd have been part of the Signal Corps. You might find these volumes worth getting -
http://www.army.mil/cmh-pg/books/wwii/11-9/10-16.htm

These reenactors might be able to provide you with guidance on the Signal Corps insignia and uniform wear -
http://members.tripod.com/33rdscb/index.htm

He went in as infantry, thus the 3rd AD insignia. I think the move to photographer was very late in the war, perhaps even after VE day. That might explain the SHAEF patch in the pocket. Of course, I am just learning about all of this, as we only have a few letters to go on, and he isn't around to give us a timeline.

On a side note, in one of the letters, he told my great-grandmother that "the boys" were partying harder over the news of Japan's imminent surrender, than they did on VE day.

 

[Story]

He went in as infantry, thus the 3rd AD insignia..

Not necessarily. A Signal Corps photographer attached to a unit serving with the 3rd Armored Division would wear the 3rd AD patch.

H Of course, I am just learning about all of this, as we only have a few letters to go on, and he isn't around to give us a timeline..

Have you requested his military records (DD214)? That'll answer most mysteries.
http://www.archives.gov/veterans/military-service-records/get-service-records.html

 

[panamag8or]

I'm not sure if I have seen the cap that goes with it. Where is a good place to find one?