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rrl doublerl Slim Fit Leather Moto Jacket

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puiyc1203

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214
Well, in your posts you make a big deal about the supposed value of those jackets. You mention how much you paid for yours which is a weird thing to do imo. Anyways, money seems to be a big topic for you and since you stress it that much it's only natural for me to ask about your perception of value.


This is simply not true. Their patterns are much more suitable for the western physique than other Japanese brands like FCL.

Again talks about money. I bought my Double Helix brand new and I couldn't care less about its resale value. Leather jackets are poor investment pieces, there are much better ways of spending your money if it's resale value that is important to you. Personally I care much more about the quality and fit of a jacket, I think most people here on TFL do.


I don't know man. I visited the brother bridge store in Tokyo, I could share my thoughts about the brand and the quality of their shoes but judging by your comments I don't think you're actually interested in having a meaningful discussion.







The Fedora Lounge is a forum where people have discussions. If you're not interested in having discussions then what is it that you're here for? If you're only here to collect ooh’s and ah’s then why both making a thread / writing a review. Just post a pic of your jacket and leave it to that. Maybe Instagram would be a more suitable platform for you.
And don't forget to buy the double helix indigo A-2, it definitely suits your physique, but please be humble and don't conclude it to be 'western physique', best buy you would have
 

puiyc1203

One of the Regulars
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214
Oh man I feel bad for you, you must really dislike your FW Centinela which you had to size up to a 44 because its pattern is undersized.
Thats hilarious. Why shall I dislike my centinela, I have 42 and 44 horsehide and 44 deerskin, I like it and I believe it's a good jacket so I keep buying and I decide to own one even if I have to go up one size. Same thing happens for Eastman a2,
And I go down one size for labrea and j31,
any problem with that?
 

Aloysius

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I think to an extent we're dealing with an English as a second language communications barrier here.

I must say though this part made me laugh a bit because I actually agree with part of it, having experienced it myself.

fcl jackets of different style has the same horrible pattern and sizing, no underarm gusset, narrow shoulder, leftover hides as raw material, poor range of motion

...

To me, all the dealers selling double helix, fcl, brother bridge boots are unscrupulous. Selling products of these brands is like making money by feeding shit to customer mouth. Before you keep asking why, use your dialectic thinking to see if it is a fake proposition, if the answer is so obvious but you don't want to face it.

I am not familiar with DH or Brother Bridge, so I can't speak to them, but I have been in Western denim/workwear shops where they borderline try to force you to like FCL. It really does seem like a scam on the customer.

I think @dudewuttheheck aptly put it as, "People buy Fine Creek because the store tells them to like it". In Japan you have this plus Lightning magazine telling you cool kids must wear Fine Creek.
 

TartuWolf

One Too Many
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Tartu, Estonia
I feel for you OP.
I would also be rather sour and defensive if I bought a made in China movie jacket for around $2420 and the TFL crowd wouldn't be showering it with praises.
I visited one RRL store while I was in London and checked some of their leather jackets. They were all made in India (not China as in your case) and were "super soft, light and thin" for sure. Especially the thin part.
But I do believe there is a customer for those kind of jackets out there and I'm really glad you're happy with yours.
I'd say keep us updated with the patina/development of the jacket but as the jacket is already pre-distressed it would be rather hard to tell the difference.
More fit photos maybe? Especially from the back? And arms raised forward?
 

dudewuttheheck

I'll Lock Up
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4,341
I think to an extent we're dealing with an English as a second language communications barrier here.

I must say though this part made me laugh a bit because I actually agree with part of it, having experienced it myself.



I am not familiar with DH or Brother Bridge, so I can't speak to them, but I have been in Western denim/workwear shops where they borderline try to force you to like FCL. It really does seem like a scam on the customer.

I think @dudewuttheheck aptly put it as, "People buy Fine Creek because the store tells them to like it". In Japan you have this plus Lightning magazine telling you cool kids must wear Fine Creek.
The marketing for Fine Creek is so overwhelming that I saw someone recently (a regular person, not a store owner) basically say that the boomers on TFL hate on Fine Creek a lot.

The idea of "if it's made in Japan, it must be good" line of thinking is so incredibly strong in the raw denim/repro/amekaji/heritage menswear scene that it allows brands like Fine Creek to get away with making horrific patterns and still be considered as good because they're Japanese.

This isn't to say that Japan does not produce high quality clothing. They absolutely do. Most of my favorite non-vintage clothing is Japanese... in fact, almost all of it is. However, it is ignorant to allow brands like Fine Creek to ride the reputation of more deserving brands like Freewheelers. Having compared a Freewheelers and a real Leathertogs firsthand, my respect for the effort and accuracy a brand like Freewheelers puts into their garments is incredibly impressive. Even if their stuff is not your bag, it is incredible what they are able to do in terms of repro and quality. The problem is when people solely attribute what Freewheelers does to them just being Japanese. This is not the case. It's also a reductive way of thinking and causes people to inaccurately equate lesser brands with higher quality brands.

Same thing with boots. Not all Japanese boots are equal. In fact, not all handwelted boots are equal. A lot of guys attribute the quality of some handwelted boots to other lesser handwelted boots that do not deserve such credit.
 

puiyc1203

One of the Regulars
Messages
214
I think to an extent we're dealing with an English as a second language communications barrier here.

I must say though this part made me laugh a bit because I actually agree with part of it, having experienced it myself.



I am not familiar with DH or Brother Bridge, so I can't speak to them, but I have been in Western denim/workwear shops where they borderline try to force you to like FCL. It really does seem like a scam on the customer.

I think @dudewuttheheck aptly put it as, "People buy Fine Creek because the store tells them to like it". In Japan you have this plus Lightning magazine telling you cool kids must wear Fine Creek.
well I believe the yellow Mohican hairstyle editor of lightning has some share in fcl, or fcl paid a great deal of money fr ads. I have never seen this magazine talked about freewheelers. (pure speculation)

from fine creek to fountainhead, their boot line duoford, or the recently renovated high large, the yellow mohican do most of the publicity for them
 

Aloysius

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3,714
*Mohawk hairstyle, you mean.

But yes, he's effectively their head of advertising. It's definitely part of the business model of both FC and Lightning.
 

puiyc1203

One of the Regulars
Messages
214
I feel for you OP.
I would also be rather sour and defensive if I bought a made in China movie jacket for around $2420 and the TFL crowd wouldn't be showering it with praises.
I visited one RRL store while I was in London and checked some of their leather jackets. They were all made in India (not China as in your case) and were "super soft, light and thin" for sure. Especially the thin part.
But I do believe there is a customer for those kind of jackets out there and I'm really glad you're happy with yours.
I'd say keep us updated with the patina/development of the jacket but as the jacket is already pre-distressed it would be rather hard to tell the difference.
More fit photos maybe? Especially from the back? And arms raised forward?
actually this one is also made in India too, though some of my friends tried dissuading me not to buy from current RRL, I almost had all the leather jackets I need and I made up my mind that the next jacket must be from RRL, either it is the 2nd generation of color grey, or this one as 2024 new release.

Therefore I am fully aware of RRL's poor reputation for years. Knowing that the measurements of size m the sales gave me is chest 114, shoulder 47, I planned about washing it for size shrinking too. But the result turns out surprisingly good, the jacket fit me perfectly and nothing needs to do about it. The grain and color looks far better than that of 2nd generation.

I think it is pre-washed, the aging/development might not be that obvious as you said.

As it is so soft and thin, there is no problem with the range of motion, its overall a pretty good ready-to-wear jacket to me,

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图片_20240401135553.jpg

图片_20240401135556.jpg

图片_20240401135604.jpg
 

puiyc1203

One of the Regulars
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214
I hope you didn't pay full price for it. I think $2000 for the RRL name and $420 for the jacket is out of proportion.
Anyway, everyone should be happy in their own way.
you still overated the jacket, fair price for indian made rrl shall be around $1600-$1900. and yeah, I am pretty satisfied with this one.
 

MrProper

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you still overated the jacket, fair price for indian made rrl shall be around $1600-$1900. and yeah, I am pretty satisfied with this one.
The $2420 doesn't come from me, but from your original post. I also find the $1600-$1900 exorbitant when I consider that you can get a real leather jacket for that. That's still $1400 just for the RRL name. But the good thing is that everyone can decide for themselves what is worth something and what is not.
 

Marc mndt

I'll Lock Up
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7,084
But even though the price for Freewheelers, real McCoy's, Eastman is high, I do recommend these brands.
You know why Eastman prices are that high right? Eastman wants to have a piece of the Chinese luxury apparel market.

Chinese consumers are highly brand conscious and tend to seek out products that offer a sense of prestige. For a luxury product to effectively convey such prestige effect it must carry a price tag higher than that of a comparable normal good of similar quality.

I have bought over twenty leather jackets. most of them from japan. If you could afford a jacket cost $1500, you should save money for the one cost $2500, because that's already the top.

A treasure deserves its expense.

$2500 is, indeed, a large amount of money for most of the people. But its far better than spending $1000-$1500 to buy a piece of shxt.

Judging by some of your past posts, maybe you meant to say "because of" instead of "even though" [...Eastman prices is high, I do recommend these brands]? That would certainly explain why you feel the need to mention purchase price in your review.
 

Nykwil

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153
Location
Cyberspace
Some bold opinions from one single person on Ralph Lauren.

I live in the States and don't see the appeal or value in Ralph Lauren. I personally wouldn't pay for anything Ralph Lauren related because I see better products elsewhere that doesn't need to be emblazoned in RRL branding. I'm not going up to people and going "hey check out my REAL MCCOY'S" as that's annoying and braggadocios. Also something disingenuous about an American brand being outsourced to China or Pakistan being sold as "Americana" just doesn't sit well with me. That heritage and history you paid for? Yeah that's just a brand story to get you feeling good about dropping 1.5-2k on an article of clothing. I know China can make decent products but morally speaking I personally don't enjoy getting products from China. I had to get rid of some selvedge denim that used long staple cotton sourced from China that were harvested through slave labor of the Uyghurs. So that's how I feel about Made in China.
 

puiyc1203

One of the Regulars
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214
You know why Eastman prices are that high right? Eastman wants to have a piece of the Chinese luxury apparel market.

Chinese consumers are highly brand conscious and tend to seek out products that offer a sense of prestige. For a luxury product to effectively convey such prestige effect it must carry a price tag higher than that of a comparable normal good of similar quality.







Judging by some of your past posts, maybe you meant to say "because of" instead of "even though" [...Eastman prices is high, I do recommend these brands]? That would certainly explain why you feel the need to mention purchase price in your review.
Lol, matter of fact, I only bought the 489th umbriago from elite unites of Eastman at 1699pound, far earlier than their current price of 2499pound. The world is bigger than you thought, don't try to treat others as fool and teach them what to do. We knew who Eastman worked with in China, we knew who gave them the illusion to take the unreasonably high price strategy. But if you really take a deep look, market reacted badly due to the overpriced and the epidemic.

Respectfully speaking, I know you have a lot of leather jackets too. But you make it so pathetic that now at this point, you are trying to distort what I said and make a judgement by or make a joke. It's silly and naive. That's deplorable.

It seems like you are so sensitive when others mentioned about price. And again, please don't try to oversummarize on Chinese consumer as what you describe your physique as a western physique.

And one last thing I need to remind you, like mrproper said above, everyone is free to choose what is worth something and what is not. When you said comparable normal good of similar quality, you talked about cheap replacement. But most of the time, the normal good is only cheap, it cannot replace.
Freewheelers cannot replace Chanel, Chanel cannot replace loro piana. And meanwhile, I spent thousands for leather jacket doesn't mean I cannot buy T-shirt from uniqlo, and me wearing a uniqlo t-shirt it doesn't mean I have to eat select beef instead of prime beef. And me wearing Freewheelers pants because their cutting and large front rise suit my big balls that you don't have. Quit your bitching and go get your double helix indigo A-2.
 

dudewuttheheck

I'll Lock Up
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4,341
This is the quote that I'll remember OP by haha. Large front rise to accommodate big balls.
This is how you know that he knows absolutely nothing about what he's talking about. He forgot that you also need a large back rise and thigh room as well.

That and he's a complete child who doesn't belong here.
 

Aloysius

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3,714
We knew who Eastman worked with in China, we knew who gave them the illusion to take the unreasonably high price strategy.

I would be interested to know more of the backstory on this. I remember when it happened but I just assumed the details. It seemed like overnight Eastman jumped up a price tier or two.

The pay more Veblen effect isn’t only found in China. I expect the fact that they’re stocked by Standard & Strange (who for example sell Simmons Bilt at double the price, leaving aside the crappiness of the brand that’s still wild) probably played a role too.
 
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