Want to buy or sell something? Check the classifieds

"The Pacific" - can it possibly live up to expectations?

Dixon Cannon

My Mail is Forwarded Here
Messages
3,157
Location
Sonoran Desert Hideaway
Well I've learned a couple of things along with the premiere of 'The Pacific'.

First, in the debut episode, I noticed most of the leathernecks were using M1 Garands and Carbines. A few Thompson's rounded out the squad along with the .30 cal water cooled machine gun.

What I didn't see were any Reising guns that were used in the early days of the PTO. The Reising's were used aplenty due to the unavailability and expense of the Thompson. More guys had Reising's than Thompson's in those days, that's for sure. The machine gun proved completely inadequate for the wet, sticky, sandy environment and many a Marine tossed it aside in disgust. The Corp eventually decided they just wouldn't use the Reising and insisted on Thompsons. The remaining Reising's went to lend-lease and the Coast Guard, it seems.

Here's a good article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reising_Gun

Here is another thing - I anticipated seeing the 'Goettge Patrol' in this first episode - perhaps next week or the week after. I finally gave up on pronouncing Lt. Col. Frank Goettge's name so I placed a call to public information at Camp Lejeune and got the correct pronunciation. It seems it is simply 'Getty' - the second 'g' in not pronounced. "Frank Getty"! How many of us have struggled with that name for the past 68 years? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Goettge

They have yet to find Lt. Col. Goettge's body after all these years. As late as 2008 archaeologists have searched for the remains of the twenty-two Marines that died the night of August 12, 1942. No graves; the sea may have claimed them and swollowed them up with the rising tide.

So that is my little bit of education gained as a result of 'The Pacific' broadcast.

-dixon cannon
 

Ghostsoldier

Call Me a Cab
Messages
2,389
Location
Starke, Florida, USA
Dixon Cannon said:
What I didn't see were any Reising guns that were used in the early days of the PTO.

Dixie...I think that was a Reising slung on the back of that "gung-ho speech" officer (I didn't catch his name), on the ship, before the troops took to the landing craft...at least, the compensator looked like a Model 50 Reising version, to me (it was really long, or so I thought, and not like a M1928 Thompson)....
Rob
 

fortworthgal

Call Me a Cab
Messages
2,646
Location
Panther City
I really enjoyed it. I've heard quite a few "I don't like it because it wasn't the same as BOB" but I think this series will progress quite differently, and we will see the characters develop more in combat, rather than focusing on training and boot camp as a setup like Band of Brothers did. Band of Brothers focused on a group of people that were formed before the war and developed a bond before and through the war - this series focuses on 3 separate men and their combat experiences during the war. I think BOB *had* to set you up with the pre-Normandy training and boot camp, so you could see how the company formed up and was almost a family before even going into combat. A large part of Sledge's and Leckie's writings were based on things that happened in combat and how they reconciled those things within themselves, so I assume the series is going to focus more on those points. It looks like it is going to be a great series!

The only thing I noticed (and heard complaints about) was the use of 03A3s instead of 03s, which wouldn't really be accurate for Guadalcanal 1942. But... it is Hollywood, and I've learned to let things slide and focus on the bigger picture, so to speak.

I think it is going to be a great series and I'm excited to see the rest!
 

Atomic Age

Practically Family
Messages
701
Location
Phoenix, Arizona
If you have DirecTV, they are showing The Pacific on their channel 101 HD. You don't have to subscribe to HBO to watch the show. Looks like they are showing it the Wednesday night after the Sunday premiere on HBO.

Gotta love DirecTV. I thought I was going to have to wait till this came out on blu-ray to watch it.

Doug
 

Atomic Age

Practically Family
Messages
701
Location
Phoenix, Arizona
Dixon Cannon said:
Well I've learned a couple of things along with the premiere of 'The Pacific'.

First, in the debut episode, I noticed most of the leathernecks were using M1 Garands and Carbines. A few Thompson's rounded out the squad along with the .30 cal water cooled machine gun.

One thing they did get right was that the Thompson's were the M1928A1 with the drum magazine and the Cutts Compensator. Later Thompson's, the M1 and M1A1 eliminated the drum mag and the compensator to simplify manufacturing, and because the mag made too much noise when just walking around, and tended to jam with dirt and mud.

Over all I think the attention to detail is pretty good in the first episode.

Doug
 

WH1

Practically Family
Messages
967
Location
Over hills and far away
I am currently watching The Pacific episode 1 and have seen what looks like 2Reisings in the first 10 minutes, the one previously noted being carried by gungho speech captain and what looks like a second being carried and leaned against a helmet while the Marines are set up in the cocanut grove immediately after the landing.
 

appy

Familiar Face
Messages
75
Location
Texas
I saw the preview episode last night... makes me wish I had HBO. lol It looks really good and I commented to my grandmother that they did a really good job of putting the viewer 'right there with them'. I liked it and want to see more. :)
 

Phantomfixer

Practically Family
Messages
819
Location
Mid East coast USA
I think episode 1 had a problem with scene/timeline transition. Explaining a little about the Pacific war(ie no quarter given by both sides) might have helped the viewer understand what the Marines faced on Guadalcanal. But heck anything with planes and guns sure beats American Idol lol lol


hey sixties nut thanks for the tip about HBO online that was the only way I could watch it.
My hat is off to you mate.
 

fortworthgal

Call Me a Cab
Messages
2,646
Location
Panther City
If any of you have Directv, The 101 (which I think is channel 800 and should be free for everyone) has been showing episode 1 all week. They've been running it back to back with the making of The Pacific, making of Band of Brothers, and the BOB documentary We Stand Alone Together. I'm sure they won't show all 10 episodes, probably just the first 1 or 2, hoping you'll sign up for HBO - but for now you can view it free there.

Phantomfixer said:
But heck anything with planes and guns sure beats American Idol lol lol

Good point!
 

appy

Familiar Face
Messages
75
Location
Texas
fortworthgal said:
If any of you have Directv, The 101 (which I think is channel 800 and should be free for everyone) has been showing episode 1 all week. They've been running it back to back with the making of The Pacific, making of Band of Brothers, and the BOB documentary We Stand Alone Together. I'm sure they won't show all 10 episodes, probably just the first 1 or 2, hoping you'll sign up for HBO - but for now you can view it free there.



Good point!

Yup, that's where I saw it, on DirecTV. :D
 

Levallois

Practically Family
Messages
665
Dixon Cannon said:
What I didn't see were any Reising guns that were used in the early days of the PTO.

-dixon cannon

Dixon - there were Reisings shown in several shots but they were fleeting - I didn't see any being fired, however. The Reising was a pretty good machine gun that wasn't tested enough before being adopted by the Corps. It was blued at first rather than parkerized and doesn't react well to dirt and wet conditions - rusted up solid. With more testing and modification before being rushed into combat, I think it would have been more popular with the troops - it was lighter than the Thompson with a higher rate of fire. I own one and, kept clean and oiled, it is a very impressive firearm!

John
 

xwray

Familiar Face
Messages
67
Location
Houston, TX
YETI said:
snip

I hope they do a series about the Bataan death march next. My grandpa survived that hell. He was a cavalry scout with the Filipino Army which was still under U.S. command. He retired as a 1st sergeant in the U.S. Army. He was lucky enough to be granted American citizenship after WWII.

God Bless your grandad either presently or posthumously as the case may be...I think it is impossible for us today to know what those guys endured (and indeed, all veterans who stared into the muzzle of the enemy) and we today don't appreciate them near enough!
 

YETI

A-List Customer
Messages
439
Location
Bay Area, CA
xwray said:
God Bless your grandad either presently or posthumously as the case may be...I think it is impossible for us today to know what those guys endured (and indeed, all veterans who stared into the muzzle of the enemy) and we today don't appreciate them near enough!
Thank you. My grandfather past away before any of his grandchildren were born. From what I was told, he truly was a war hero; that goes for everyone who served in our time of need. A few months ago I asked my grandaunt how bad was it under Japanese rule during the war. She was around 20 at the time. The only thing she told me in detail was when all the Japanese soldiers dropped their weapons and started running for the hills. When everyone in the town saw this, all you could hear were screams of "VICTORY!" and "They have returned!"; this was probably when the Allies finally took Manila since her province is only about 30 miles away.
 

Widebrim

I'll Lock Up
YETI said:
Thank you. My grandfather past away before any of his grandchildren were born. From what I was told, he truly was a war hero; that goes for everyone who served in our time of need. A few months ago I asked my grandaunt how bad was it under Japanese rule during the war. She was around 20 at the time. The only thing she told me in detail was when all the Japanese soldiers dropped their weapons and started running for the hills. When everyone in the town saw this, all you could hear were screams of "VICTORY!" and "They have returned!"; this was probably when the Allies finally took Manila since her province is only about 30 miles away.

Wow! That alone is quite a story. My father was there with the U.S. Army, and told me a couple of stories, too.
 

Norumbega

One of the Regulars
Messages
106
Location
Maine
YETI said:
I hope they do a series about the Bataan death march next. My grandpa survived that hell. He was a cavalry scout with the Filipino Army which was still under U.S. command. He retired as a 1st sergeant in the U.S. Army. He was lucky enough to be granted American citizenship after WWII.

While you're waiting for that, let me recommend a book entitled, "Bataan, Our Last Ditch," by John Whitman. It will not only leave you gasping, it will astound you with the amount of bravery and tenacity these Americans and Filipino's fought with, taking on the cream of the Imperial Army with shoddy WWI equipment and defeating them. It's a must read actually, and a decent primer on the early Pacific Theatre.

All I can say about those trying to make comparisons to Band of Brothers is that making a cookie cutter companion piece was never under consideration for the project. While you could complain and point out that they didn't include boot camp and early character development, you didn't learn anything about the home life, any pre-war friendships or interaction on Band. You'll see more of that in The Pacific as they side trip to libbo in Australia, and also, the relationship between Lena and John Basilone. Whatever her character becomes for The Pacific was in no small part due to the countless interviews my mother gave them in preproduction. She was a Marine at Pendleton and both worked and lived with Lena at the barracks. I was able to provide them photo documentation from her collection, and there is probably some of it's influnece on sets, so like one or two others who dare admit it....we have personal biases or interests in this series.

As an aside, I'm happy that this is based on Leckie's and Sledge's books. Most armchair historians assume that the war in it's entirety was based on the outcome in the ETO. One reason you did not see Marines in the ETO was based on the interservice rivalry between the Army and the Marine Corps. Truman, a WWI Army officer even tried to do away with the Marine Corps, the smallest of the service branches, but there was such a public outcry that he relented.
Indeed, Eisenhower stated that no Marine was going to set foot in the ETO, and it was a promise he fullfilled. Ever after, the "Ike" jacket was no longer referred to as such in the Marine Corps, but was instead called a "Vandegrifts," after Gen. Alexander Vandegrift, Commander of the 1st Marine Division on Guadalcanal and the Solomon Campaign.
Eleanor Roosevelt said it best: "“The Marines I have seen around the world have the cleanest bodies, the filthiest minds, the highest morale, and the lowest morals of any group of animals I have ever seen. Thank God for the United States Marine Corps!”

So yes, this series is no Band of Brothers and I am one Marine, of four consecutive generation of Marines in my family that is more than ecstatic about that fact. It is high time that people learned that WWII was global and was won on more than in one theatre of operation. That the focus is on the Marine Corps this time is intentional, based on two fabulous accounts. This is not a focus of one unit on D-Day, and beyond, but a series of D-Days with different units that have received short shrift for 67 years, and I am so glad that everyone is about to see, unlike the ETO, the pure savagery that was St. Crispin's Days, where the Geneva Convention was spit upon and where the rule of civilized warfare (if that's possible) went out the window.
In conclusion, to the critics, all I can say is to erase every thought you've held until this moment about comparing this to Band of Brothers, and instead, open your mind, expand your knowlege and wait until the last episode, before you condemn The Pacific to a shallow grave.
Speaking with Bruce McKenna recently he said to stand by, with Episode 2 "it's about to get stronger."
 

Widebrim

I'll Lock Up
Norumbega said:
All I can say about those trying to make comparisons to Band of Brothers is that making a cookie cutter companion piece was never under consideration for the project...

Most armchair historians assume that the war in it's entirety was based on the outcome in the ETO...

I am so glad that everyone is about to see, unlike the ETO, the pure savagery that was St. Crispin's Days, where the Geneva Convention was spit upon and where the rule of civilized warfare (if that's possible) went out the window.

1.) Absolutely. The Pacific is not intended to be a B.O.B. clone. People need to "appreciate" it on its own merits.

2.) Anyone who assumes that the entirety of WWII was based on the ETO, does not deserve to be called even an armchair historian...

3.) Yes. The PTO witnessed its moments of savagery (on both sides, but particularly the Japanese), as recounted by many veterans, my father (7th ID, USA) included.
 

sixties.nut

Registered User
Messages
158
Location
offline
Gentlemen

These are the kind of comments that take this forum over the top, while I do also like the light hearted topics. I enjoy those that speak their minds and are on track. Thanks, will have to dig up a link to episode two. NOW I can't wait for the DVD's. lol
 

Norumbega

One of the Regulars
Messages
106
Location
Maine
Tonight, it gets ratcheted up. I won't say more, but it simply astounds me how little some people know about the PTO. I just hope these types of series continue and that they tell the unvarnished truth.

One other good read.....and this MUST be made in to a movie, is based on the book, "Ship of Ghosts," by James Hornfischer. What an incredible testament to the human spirit. You won't put it down.

Ok......enough! I need to get strapped in. Enjoy people!
 

Forum statistics

Threads
102,404
Messages
2,905,844
Members
49,531
Latest member
Albert Mannocchi
Top