This generation of kids...

[davestlouis]

The schoolbus rumbles past my house at 6:20am. I don't recall exactly what time school starts, but my high schoolers get out at 2:10, so they have several hours to destoy the house and create mayhem before we get home.

When I was a kid, none of the moms worked, and anything we did promptly got reported to my mother. In short, at school, I'd get in trouble by the nun, and the principal, then I had all day to ponder what would happen once I got home. In the neighborhood, the mom-mafia was all-seeing and all-knowing, and I just knew that my mom would know exactly what I had done before I ever walked in the door...so I walked the straight and narrow.

I have no viable way of supporting a household, and having an adult around in the afternoon to ride herd over the kids. They're good kids, but idle time creates too many opportunities for mischief.

 

[Harp]

I'd get in trouble by the nun...
In the neighborhood, the mom-mafia was all-seeing and all-knowing, and I just knew that my mom would know exactly what I had done before I ever walked in the door...

The mom-mafia
Wasn't that the truth...lol

And the nuns knew if they dropped a dime and called home you were dead.
And no appellate recourse. The verdict was final. lol

 

[Foofoogal]

In the neighborhood, the mom-mafia was all-seeing and all-knowing,

lol lol
I love this. So true.

We always had the kids in bed before 10:00 on a school night. No ifs, ands or buts. Sometimes sooner if a test.
I do think it is ridiculous to have kids standing at a bus stop at 6:00 in the dark though.

 

[Land-O-LakesGal]

I teach high school I always have to give the most fails in my 1st class of the day. Our school starts at 7:30 am. I am not saying that if we started at 8:30 that we would have better attendance. I don't know if that would help or if we would have more kids leaving early to go to jobs. I do know this the kids that do the least amount or work and expect the highest grades for the little they did seem to get coddled and backed up by their parents.

 

[Baron Kurtz]

This is a topic that seems to be coming up a lot in this thread, and it's a bit misleading. The idea of shifting schooldays around has nothing to do with the amount of sleep a kid needs. That's just the way the media has chosen to dumb it down. I know it's a bit of an esoteric concept, but it's not really about the amount of sleep (although more is better). Independent of the amount of sleep the time of day seems to have an effect on how well we do at various tasks. It's all down to how your particular body clock is interacting with the day/night cycles. All the sleep in the world won't change this. And it isn't the same for everyone.

As I said earlier, there are groups known as "owls" and "larks". However much sleep an owl gets, he will generally do less well than the larks in the morning. Anyone else with a college education here will remember the huge variations in study patterns amongst their friends. Sure, you need to get to lectures at set times of the morning, but study is far more important than the lectures. Being able to choose your own schedule to a large extent, suddenly those owls who did "OK, not great" at school (I am one of them), discover that they are just as good educationally as the larks.

It would be very expensive, but the best school system would be semi-personalised to each student. Their chronotype would be assessed and they would be assigned to a cohort "owl" or "lark". Their school day would be designed accordingly. ever wondered why home-schooled kids do so well up to the high school level? I'd bet it's because there's more lee-way in schedules, and a schedule evolves that is best suited to the particular child's needs.

Needing more sleep biologically does NOT = later start to the day.


I for most of my life have needed 9+ hours to feel ok.

I learned this early on, and guess what...I went to bed at 9 or 9:30 if my wake up call is at 6 am.

I biologically need more sleep. I -do- what it takes to make that amount of sleep possible, without whining to anyone that maybe they should adjust schedules etc....

 

[Puzzicato]

God forbid that modern studies and better understanding of physiology make life better and learning more efficient for subsequent generations.

When I was doing my teaching practicum at university, I discovered that none of the schools I taught in used a school bell/buzzer to end classes. And it was a revelation to me! All the students were in class on time, and they stayed until I wrapped up the lesson and let them leave. There was none of the abrupt panic of the bell going and everyone running out of the room in the middle of my sentence. A modern study had shown that there were better ways, and that was so true. That little experience gave me a lot of respect for the idea of learning better ways!

 

[Foofoogal]

ever wondered why home-schooled kids do so well up to the high school level?

When we took our son to a really good aviation/engineering school I was stunned to see how the home schooled kids ran circles around the public school kids on test scores for college.
We did not home school but admire those who do it well. (some don't)

 

[John in Covina]

While there is a real concept of Morning People and Non-Morning People a lot of people can shift their internal time clocks by following a daily routine. Just as when we fly to other time zones and can reset to that zone , it is possible to do.

 

[Foofoogal]

do know this the kids that do the least amount or work and expect the highest grades for the little they did seem to get coddled and backed up by their parents.

I so believe this. I actually see it as child abuse to think your child is perfect. I am not suggesting not protecting them but knowing wrong is wrong and right is right no matter who it is.
Like Lizzie suggested. The world is not going to bow down to them when they go out in it and they need to know how to act.
It is very costly on so many levels later on to not only the parents but the child.

One thing I definitely do believe is how a baby is treated. Strong evidence to show a baby picked up when they cry makes for a secure, independent adult.
I feel personally it was the greatest thing I gave our children. A strong foundation and start.

 

[scottyrocks]

And to speak to what I'd said earlier, consider this: say you stopped from giving your kids a good smacking for mouthing back because you didn't want to teach them violence. But guess what happens when they mutter something under their breath to a guy named Gus who eats motorcycle parts for breakfast? It won't be your kid's violence that gets them in trouble; it'll be their lack of tact, discipline, judgement, etc., that gets them in trouble. These were things you could have taught them with one swift *whack*.

I cant tell you how many times Ive said to kids something like, 'One day youre gonna open up a mouth like that to the wrong person and theyre gonna pound you through the floor.'

There was something in another post about kids being punched by a bully and cowering in the corner until a teacher comes along to save them. I see this bullying behavior a lot. Quite frankly, Im all for standing up for yourself. Sometimes what is needed is to make bully think twice (heck, maybe even think once) before he decides to lay a hand on someone.

This concept also fits into the extremist nature of views on child rearing. There are those that are what I will call old-school (and we know who we are), and those 'new-schoolers' who believe that children should exhibit only 'approved' behaviors, and that their feelings should never be hurt, even when its beneficial to them.

A big problem around here is the lack of teaching of self-reliance. This seems to match up with the ideas of changing school schedules and all those other things mentioned here to make life easier for our poor teenagers.

Its really kinda simple. Kids: go to bed earlier. Do what youre supposed to do. Parents: tell your kids what is right and wrong according to you. Youre in charge. Situations can be talked about but your word is final. Do it with tact and positiveness. Dont be mean. Dont be afraid to punish, but do it appropriately. Hitting doesnt work, as much as the idea of it feels so necessary sometimes.

It does seem like more of the responsibility is on the parents, doesnt it? Thats right, it is. Parents, be parents first, and then friends a far distant second. When the kids have this relationship fully in hand, the building block of the structure they so badly need will be there. You cant parent effectively without it.

 

[AmateisGal]

Its really kinda simple. Kids: go to bed earlier. Do what youre supposed to do. Parents: tell your kids what is right and wrong according to you. Youre in charge. Situations can be talked about but your word is final. Do it with tact and positiveness. Dont be mean. Dont be afraid to punish, but do it appropriately. Hitting doesnt work, as much as the idea of it feels so necessary sometimes.

It does seem like more of the responsibility is on the parents, doesnt it? Thats right, it is. Parents, be parents first, and then friends a far distant second. When the kids have this relationship fully in hand, the building block of the structure they so badly need will be there. You cant parent effectively without it.

VERY well said. :eusa_clap

 

[LocktownDog]

A few nights ago, my ex called me up and said that our 14 year old snuck out the bedroom window. She couldn't find him. I spent 30 minutes driving around her neighborhood looking for him. She called all his friends. Soon, a patrol car pulled up with the boy. Said he was caught in a locked park after municipal curfew with a girl. No drugs, alcohol, or smokes. He fessed up right away and apologized. But when the sheriff asked us if he needed to charge him and set up a court date, my ex and I both said yes immediately. The kid crumbled at that and said afterwards he "hates us" and we "don't trust him". I have a feeling he's going to hate us more after his 40 hours of community service. We would have been a whole lot more understanding and lenient had he not done this a couple of times previously and mouthed off to us.

His two brothers have been on their best behaviour since that night.

 

[Dinerman]

This damn generation of kids!

Damn swing kids, rockers, hippies, punks, etc. throughout history and their music, clothes, slang and everything else that merely builds upon the same of previous generations.

Idealizing the past doesn't make the present any different.

 

[John in Covina]

The kid crumbled at that and said afterwards he "hates us" and we "don't trust him". I have a feeling he's going to hate us more after his 40 hours of community service. We would have been a whole lot more understanding and lenient had he not done this a couple of times previously and mouthed off to us.

This is a big thing with teens. They have seen and heard enough examples via TV and movies about sneeking out that they feel it's a right. Here is the rub, you'll probably hear them say that you treat me like a child not an adult. The problem is that they can't understand that they make choices like a child not an adult. It's joined to an idea they want to be able to do what they want which they connect with the idea of being "grown up" yet grown ups don't get to do what ever they want either as a grown up's life is one of responsibility. The fact that it's part of a developing pattern of actions is troubling.

(Occasionally I hear an ad on talk radio that is for a dealing with teens program that is supposed to work. Don't recall the name but it would be of interest to see what their suggestions are.)

Parents are supposed to be parents and it's a hard task. My dad was a guy with a short fuse and he found that if he blew his fuse he would regret with happened afterwards. At some point when I was young he got control of his temper and learned to have all day Saturday talks about what I had done and why I thought it was a good idea to do what I did and why I thought I should get away with what I did, etc. One thing that my dad started doing was instill the idea that our family was of prime importance because there is always the chance that things could go badly and we would need to pull together and be responsible for one another. He said that we need to support each other and to be that way now so it was in operation before problems started. While we were individuals and needed to be seperate the family was a unit and a rock to build on that needs the support of all the members to be succesful.

That was followed with a long talk about how life is not fair and to get over it by being responsible and acting like an adult for the most part.

 

[John in Covina]

This damn generation of kids! Damn swing kids, rockers, hippies, punks, etc. throughout history and their music, clothes, slang and everything else that merely builds upon the same of previous generations.

Idealizing the past doesn't make the present any different.

Today teen pregnancy and out of wedlock births are off the charts compared with the past.

Way back, the problems in school was chewing gum and talking in class now many schools have metal detectors to keep out the guns and knives.

The present is different from the past because attitudes have shifted and values have shifted.

 

[Miss Neecerie]

Today teen pregnancy and out of wedlock births are off the charts compared with the past.

-recorded- incidences are higher...sure.

Impossible to tell and directly compare an era where things like that were hushed and covered up.....'jodie spent the summer with her aunt in some remote location while mom had a new daughter (that was really Jodie's baby)....etc.... with an era where record keeping is more accurate in these matters.

 

[scottyrocks]

This is a big thing with teens. They have seen and heard enough examples via TV and movies about sneeking out that they feel it's a right. Here is the rub, you'll probably hear them say that you treat me like a child not an adult. The problem is that they can't understand that they make choices like a child not an adult. It's joined to an idea they want to be able to do what they want which they connect with the idea of being "grown up" yet grown ups don't get to do what ever they want either as a grown up's life is one of responsibility. The fact that it's part of a developing pattern of actions is troubling.

Interesting when a teen complains of not being treated like an adult in a situation such as the sneak-out post. In fact, this kid was treated like an adult. He was trespassing, got caught, and was put through the system, to the extent that the law allows for kids that age. He wasnt uujie-buujied as so often happens with kids these days whose parents wouldnt dream of subjecting their kids to actual consequences for their inappropriate actions.

Forgive? Yes. Forget? Never. Deal? Absolutely.

 

[PrairieSunrise]

Parents, be parents first, and then friends a far distant second. When the kids have this relationship fully in hand, the building block of the structure they so badly need will be there. You cant parent effectively without it.

Great point, Scotty. My parents were loving but terrifically strict with us kids (and we were homeschooled) and while we were kids, there was no doubt that they were our PARENTS! Now that most of us are grown, we've become close friends with our parents. I don't believe we'd have such a good relationship now if our parents hadn't instilled respect for them in us as children. Our friendship now is built on that respect, and we all know that respect is the essential foundation to a lasting friendship.

 

[John in Covina]

-recorded- incidences are higher...sure.

Impossible to tell and directly compare an era where things like that were hushed and covered up.....'jodie spent the summer with her aunt in some remote location while mom had a new daughter (that was really Jodie's baby)....etc.... with an era where record keeping is more accurate in these matters.

That's a lot of hushing up to match todays levels.[huh]

 

[jamespowers]

My daughter just barely went back to school on Monday (she's 7) & already has a 4 day weekend for Labor Day! Apparently, a 3 day weekend isn't good enough? Idk, I'm just feeling frustrated & disappointed with how things are going for this generation of kids and I feel like they today get waaaay to much time off and way to much slack. Seriously, not a month goes by that they don't have at least an extra day off for whatever reason. Example: a whole week off for Thanksgiving? When I went to school we only got a long weekend! They're coddled & spoiled. I see it every day! They don't know what hard work is, nor do a lot of adults for that matter. Give me the people from the WW2 generation...they knew what it was to sacrifice and work hard! Granted, it was a tough time to live but at least it built character and made them appreciate what they had! I hope I don't offend...these are just my observations....

ETA: I'm not saying my generation is/was perfect but we didn't have all this instant gratification that kids today do. Technology is wonderful and a downfall at the same time.

Monday?! My son started last Tuesday (the 31st). He wakes up at 6:30 every morning to get there at a little before eight and spend a few minutes on the playground and then in for school. This is preschool mind you--at a local public school.
However I know what you mean about time off. He gets every other Friday off and long holidays. They sent us home with the new calendar and it had a loooong list of holidays and days off for teacher planning etc. The regular school doesn't get as many teacher planning days off though.
I am actually surprised that the public school here is that tough. They make the children behave fairly well in my son's class. Today he got a good talking to for just pushing a friend of his before class. lol