Toppers Unite

[The Connector]

Good afternoon ladies and gentlemen,
new in town here and I would like to share some photos of the first ever top hat that came to my hands.
We bought it, as family, some weeks ago and we would like to sell it, but I wanted to search some informations about it before any action.
Regarding the photos, do you think that this hat comes from 1890-1900 era or later?
The retailer, ''Bon Ton'' was a store that closed many decades ago and I am still searching about it. In fact, in Athens where I live also, there is only one or two stores that are still open since 1920-1930.

 

[The Connector]

Oh and one photo of me wearing it!

 

[Mean Eyed Matt]

Good afternoon ladies and gentlemen,
new in town here and I would like to share some photos of the first ever top hat that came to my hands.
We bought it, as family, some weeks ago and we would like to sell it, but I wanted to search some informations about it before any action.
Regarding the photos, do you think that this hat comes from 1890-1900 era or later?
The retailer, ''Bon Ton'' was a store that closed many decades ago and I am still searching about it. In fact, in Athens where I live also, there is only one or two stores that are still open since 1920-1930.

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Nice Topper in very good condition - but definitely not 1890/1900: the form, construction, the materials, and the embossing say 1930s to 1950s and if you look at the crest on the sweat band - Her Majesty the Queen is not Victoria but Elizabeth II, so the hat must be after coronation in 1952.

 

[The Connector]

Mean Eyed Matt​

thanx for the reply and the good words! Well, in fact I was curious about that, especially the emboss was telling me the same thing as you do. So, some questions appears, if it is ok to discuss about it here...
What materials do you mean? What is the difference of this form from some older topper?

 

[ruvort]

Mean Eyed Matt​

thanx for the reply and the good words! Well, in fact I was curious about that, especially the emboss was telling me the same thing as you do. So, some questions appears, if it is ok to discuss about it here...
What materials do you mean? What is the difference of this form from some older topper?

Top hats have changed shape over the decades. Sometimes with more of a bell curve and other times with more straight sides.

Two examples of my top hats:

 

[Mean Eyed Matt]

Mean Eyed Matt​

thanx for the reply and the good words! Well, in fact I was curious about that, especially the emboss was telling me the same thing as you do. So, some questions appears, if it is ok to discuss about it here...
What materials do you mean? What is the difference of this form from some older topper?

What ruvort says: Firstly, I was referring to the fact that from 1890 to 1950, the shape of the crown tended to become flatter and less curved. The brim of your hat is also flatter than we would expect from Victorian top hats.

In addition, this particular type of sweatband - white with this embossed structure - is quite common in formal and semi-formal hats (top hats, bowlers), but I only know of examples from the period mentioned, not before 1900.
This is underlined by the lining of the hats: before 1900 there were many inexpensive hats with paper lining, while the high-priced segment had a lining made of very high-quality silk fabric. The lining of your hat no longer has the quality of these silk fabrics and is, in my opinion, probably made of artificial silk.
It also fits that while the gold stamping looks great at first glance, closer inspection reveals small "imperfections": stampings from earlier times are often much more "precise" and detailed.
Unfortunately, I cannot comment on the quality of the silk plush, as I have little knowledge of it and it is difficult to assess it from a photograph.
Of course, a younger hatbox and a hat 50 years older can eventually form a connection over time, but in your case, the design and workmanship of the box and the hat fit together very well in my opinion and fit the aforementioned period (although these colorful hatboxes are rather unusual for top hats).

But please don't misunderstand me, Connector: when I speak of 'less good' or 'lower quality,' I'm referring to the development of the hat industry from the late 19th to the mid-20th century. Your hat is a very high-quality example for its time and absolutely wonderful.

 

[The Connector]

Top hats have changed shape over the decades. Sometimes with more of a bell curve and other times with more straight sides.

Two examples of my top hats:

Hello,
yes I can see the difference, I assume that your hats were made at Victorian era, especially this one in the right image.

 

[The Connector]

What ruvort says: Firstly, I was referring to the fact that from 1890 to 1950, the shape of the crown tended to become flatter and less curved. The brim of your hat is also flatter than we would expect from Victorian top hats.

In addition, this particular type of sweatband - white with this embossed structure - is quite common in formal and semi-formal hats (top hats, bowlers), but I only know of examples from the period mentioned, not before 1900.
This is underlined by the lining of the hats: before 1900 there were many inexpensive hats with paper lining, while the high-priced segment had a lining made of very high-quality silk fabric. The lining of your hat no longer has the quality of these silk fabrics and is, in my opinion, probably made of artificial silk.
It also fits that while the gold stamping looks great at first glance, closer inspection reveals small "imperfections": stampings from earlier times are often much more "precise" and detailed.
Unfortunately, I cannot comment on the quality of the silk plush, as I have little knowledge of it and it is difficult to assess it from a photograph.
Of course, a younger hatbox and a hat 50 years older can eventually form a connection over time, but in your case, the design and workmanship of the box and the hat fit together very well in my opinion and fit the aforementioned period (although these colorful hatboxes are rather unusual for top hats).

But please don't misunderstand me, Connector: when I speak of 'less good' or 'lower quality,' I'm referring to the development of the hat industry from the late 19th to the mid-20th century. Your hat is a very high-quality example for its time and absolutely wonderful.

First of all, I really appreciate for your time to write all these useful details.
The last week I gathered as much informations I could about this hat. I went to hat stores, shops with fabrics and leathers but to tell you the truth I was a little bit disappointed and this because here in Greece we don't have a ''hat culture'' or it is lost within the decades.
Well, I enclose also some extra photos to get a closer look.
Regarding photos of other top hats, I was looking about the curve and yes, it seems that the hat I have is less curved than the most of Victorian era.
About the lining, some of the people at the stores said that it is silk and some used the word ''satin''. In general, to emboss directly to silk it was an expensive technique.
As for the details of the embossed signatures, I am sorry but I can't capture how detailed it is but I can say that it is much more detailed than it seems from the photos. Unfortunately, the embossed signatures can't be captured 100% as they really are.
Something that is odd is that there is not any stamp of the size, usually this was a practice when orders were made before 1920. But maybe happened because the buyer-first owner asked about it.
About the quality of the silk plush, especially at the hidden parts I can see the way that the material feels. There is an iridescent sheen also and I can feel the separation of silk hairs. The owners of two of the oldest hat stores here in Athens (around 1938 one of these), were sure about its quality and said to me that a similar quality of top hat, new to buy it costs around 700 pounds in England. Another one person, that he was working in a leather shop told me that is something mixed between velvet and beaver, then we were both looking at these materials separated and we agreed that nothing was close of these two but still he was talking about a mix that it was possible to made. He was also unfamiliar with silk plush..
The font that is using on the box it was something that you could find at pre-1920 period, like a bespoke 19th hand-drawn. Also, I found photos with Victorian boxes and I can see similarities, the colors are not fancy but very familiar to that period, mostly light or dark brown.
At the end, I don't believe that is coming from Victorian era, also because it seems in a very good condition, almost ''near mint'' to use a phrase for a vinyl disc. The owner of the oldest store said that it is possible because of the protective box but we both agreed that is quite difficult for this top to be made back in 1890-1900.
For me anyway, it is something I was experienced for the first time so, excuse me if I wrote something irrelevant or/and if I disagree in some points at any of your thoughts.
The only thing that I am sure is that this hat is indeed wonderful.
Still searching..