I’m not a big fan of extreme skiving (below 2.5oz) for the same reason I don’t like high SPI (higher than 9 spi). I’ve seen leather tear in both instances. I’m talking about single layer, not triple layer skived leather. My santalum shoes are skived to less than an ounce where the vamp meets the shaft. It’s triple stitched, but I’m still afraid that it will tear one day.
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What are the makers that DO NOT 'skiv their leather or use glue'?
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TheDonEffect
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I've given up on things that may be historically accurate but functionally inferior or unnecessarily costly. If unskived means I'll have bloated seams I'll pass. If they gotta hammer the crap out of it to flatten it... While it's not skiving it's essentially the same thing. Leather isn't metal, hammering it isn't the same as forging metal.
I briefly had a raw denim obsession but then found stretch selvedge denim and never looked back.
I find this skiving thing like chain stitching fir denim, it isn't better, it just means you bothered to hunt down the sewing machine to do it so you can now charge way more to hem. But I do find it hilarious when a denim company proclaims chain stitching, saying this is rough work wear, and the jeans fall apart after 3 washes, threads becoming undone, etc.
I briefly had a raw denim obsession but then found stretch selvedge denim and never looked back.
I find this skiving thing like chain stitching fir denim, it isn't better, it just means you bothered to hunt down the sewing machine to do it so you can now charge way more to hem. But I do find it hilarious when a denim company proclaims chain stitching, saying this is rough work wear, and the jeans fall apart after 3 washes, threads becoming undone, etc.
Longest-lasting pair of jeans I've had was from a supermarket. About 20 pounds. Levi's I've had were good for about a year. I bought some Pike Bros. hunting pants which have lasted well. I took them to my tailor- she held them up, turned them inside out, cursed in Chinese, said: 'This is easy. I can make these.' I got three pairs in denim for less than the Pike Bros cost. So far, they look as durable.
I go with Aero for jackets because I like the jackets and the price-point. Authenticity, etc. I'm actually just accepting because I don't know enough to really judge. If Aeros hold up to the absolute pasting I give them (and they have so far), I'm satisfied. I don't know about their military jackets because I'd not wear one, although anything service-issued would not have been pored over in the way that we might like to. Sizing of military issue isn't precision tailoring. In terms of durability, I doubt that skiving, gluing and stitching is any more or less durable than hammering and stitching. Avoiding stitch-rot seems more of a potential problem than whether or not horsehide, steer, goat, etc. is going to tear, which is probably why jacket makers use polyester-twined thread. Which isn't... authentic, but at some point it's cutting off nose to spite face to over-think it
I go with Aero for jackets because I like the jackets and the price-point. Authenticity, etc. I'm actually just accepting because I don't know enough to really judge. If Aeros hold up to the absolute pasting I give them (and they have so far), I'm satisfied. I don't know about their military jackets because I'd not wear one, although anything service-issued would not have been pored over in the way that we might like to. Sizing of military issue isn't precision tailoring. In terms of durability, I doubt that skiving, gluing and stitching is any more or less durable than hammering and stitching. Avoiding stitch-rot seems more of a potential problem than whether or not horsehide, steer, goat, etc. is going to tear, which is probably why jacket makers use polyester-twined thread. Which isn't... authentic, but at some point it's cutting off nose to spite face to over-think it
Your English is fine, but it is funny how languages differ. You say "mustard for the eyes", presumably a direct translation from your native language. English speakers say "eye candy", a direct opposite in taste if you will, but the meaning is the same...
I'm not looking for a mustard for the eyes.
After a decade living is Asia, there were few items of clothing I managed to buy there that fit me, that aren't tailor made or adjusted to fit. I'm not massive by any stretch of the imagination in the West, but at 6'1 and a muscular 225ish, I basically couldn't buy anything outside of a few western stores that carried western large sizes. The only footware I ever found in the continent that fit (at US size12) were flip flops, or were in Nike outlet stores that had been sent old US stock.
Doctor Damage
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The pieces of thin leather that make up the uppers of high quality men's dress shoes have ALL been skivved before being sewn together and you don't see the seams tearing apart or cracking despite shoes being subjected to infinitely more stress than leather jackets.
El Marro
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I’ve got an A-2 from Diamond Dave that is a well made jacket. I can’t imagine that mine is the only one either.
Maybe (I don't own a DD, just speculating based on knowing A-2s) because the A-2 is a pretty easy design to make (look at wartime mass production) and because he watched Chapman at work on them, he was able to get those down well, while struggling with more difficult patterns like the Buco?
Marc mndt
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Maybe he used JC's patterns for the A-2s but he didn't know how to make a MC jacket?
Ken (yes, the same one hated here) said that in terms of labour, the A-2 by itself is pretty simple work that will take less than an hour. I think this is actually part of the 'benefit' (from a military/procurement) standpoint– although by all accounts the A-2 was an absolutely terrible jacket to wear, and pilots were very happy when it was switched out for the cotton, alpaca-lined B-10).
marker2037
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Let me give some examples:
Here is me in my Aero jacket, about 30 pounds heavier than I am now. It not only makes me look even fatter than I was at the time, but also was horribly tight and uncomfortable feeling in the chest and shoulders, despite not being small in those areas measurements-wise. This to me seemed like a poor pattern. It definitely was a poor pattern for me. Maybe one of their other jackets would work, but this one did not at all.
On the other hand, here is me in my old Mulholland. This is an off the rack jacket and the measurements were actually less ideal than the Aero, but look how nicely it fits me here.
It flatters me, makes me look slimmer, and was far more comfortable and easy to wear than the Aero. What's more is that I was actually 10 pounds fatter here than in the pics with the Aero jacket. Is this a fair comparison? Well, maybe not. The Mulholland has a ridiculously good pattern and flatters a large amount of people that fit into it. Take a look at @Jin431 's pics for proof of that. He is far slimmer than I was here and he looks amazing in his Mulholland(s).
This is not a 1 to 1 comparison, just a visual representation of how I felt about the jackets.
I'm not saying Aero makes objectively bad jackets. This pattern just didn't work for me.
This Aero A-1 looks pretty damn good IMO.Pattern looks alright to me.
I was going to take a new photo today, but since this one was already posted I'll just leave it as is.
In case anyone is confused, that is me in dude's same jacket, which is now my jacket. So while some people can make a case for a certain jacket maker not making good patterns, there is always someone else who can oppose this point of view, rightfully so.
Case in point ^.
Blackadder
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IMO it is more sloppy work and not wanting to waste any materials no matter how unsuitable or defective those are. The pattern and hence the cut of his Buco repros are not bad. If you google his Buco J-21, you will find some have proper length main zipper.
dudewuttheheck
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You won't hear an argument on that from me. I cannot deny that the jacket looks great on you.
If Ken was hated, the tone would be very different here. It would be much more aggressive. You can take a look in past threads for some examples of people and makers that were/are hated, you will notice the differnce.
As you said, Aero used to be put on a pedestal a few years ago, but since then this view has evolved. These days the information given in the forum is much more accurate, and thanks to that, a lot of new members with really interesting insights are posting here. Had we stayed the way we were, this forum would be much poorer in terms of content.
Aero is not the only maker that is not seen anymore with rose tinted glasses, but it certainly was the prominent one.
I didn't say everyone here hated Ken, though obviously a few big posters do. I definitely was not including you in that, for what it's worth.
I thought the old Aero circlejerk was silly, but I think the anti-Aero circlejerk is also silly.
Marc mndt
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Very strange hem. Bad alteration? Then again I can't imagine an alteration tailor moving the belt loops like that.
The leather looks awful, too. I'm sure it's expensive and this isn't on Dave, but it's a great example of fast ageing-leather resulting in a jacket that looks simultaneously extremely worn and extremely new.
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A1 dropped the mic years ago, and still his jacket makes the rounds. He wore the shit outta that jacket. Plowed the fields in it, as I recall. Many of our jackets would benefit for real wear, from hard wear. But yeah, it’s off in a number of ways.
El Marro
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I think this is laying it on a bit too strong. Totally agree that the Lounge has evolved from the Aero fan club that it was a few years ago and I agree with @red devil and you that this is a good thing.
I don’t see people attacking Ken though, in fact this thread is the first time his name has come up in a while if I’m not mistaken.
TheDonEffect
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Longest-lasting pair of jeans I've had was from a supermarket. About 20 pounds. Levi's I've had were good for about a year. I bought some Pike Bros. hunting pants which have lasted well. I took them to my tailor- she held them up, turned them inside out, cursed in Chinese, said: 'This is easy. I can make these.' I got three pairs in denim for less than the Pike Bros cost. So far, they look as durable.
I go with Aero for jackets because I like the jackets and the price-point. Authenticity, etc. I'm actually just accepting because I don't know enough to really judge. If Aeros hold up to the absolute pasting I give them (and they have so far), I'm satisfied. I don't know about their military jackets because I'd not wear one, although anything service-issued would not have been pored over in the way that we might like to. Sizing of military issue isn't precision tailoring. In terms of durability, I doubt that skiving, gluing and stitching is any more or less durable than hammering and stitching. Avoiding stitch-rot seems more of a potential problem than whether or not horsehide, steer, goat, etc. is going to tear, which is probably why jacket makers use polyester-twined thread. Which isn't... authentic, but at some point it's cutting off nose to spite face to over-think it
Exactly. I find it hilarious that people buy these garments chasing a rough and tumble look, saying this is authentic, then lambast people who complain about their jeans falling apart after one machine wash. Oh you should freeze it, dry clean, or take a bath with it on. I imagine the gold rushers were doing just that with their Levi's. Smh.
Imagine buying a new sportscar that came with carbs making 180hp and only got 13 miles per gallon and would stall if you got too high in elevation or if it got too cold.
