White spots from stiffener

[Sage Wolf]

Hello everyone,
I just made my first hat, and it has some really bad white spots and discoloration, I believe from the stiffener. I used dewaxed shellac flakes in alcohol. Does anyone have any suggestions on getting rid of it, or ideas what caused it?

 

[belfastboy]

Hello everyone,
I just made my first hat, and it has some really bad white spots and discoloration, I believe from the stiffener. I used dewaxed shellac flakes in alcohol. Does anyone have any suggestions on getting rid of it, or ideas what caused it?
View attachment 508776 View attachment 508777

Did you use denatured alcohol with high ethanol content? I use 95% pure ethanol. How concentrated was the solution of shellac? I use a tablespoon in 250ml of alcohol. Did you let the shellac dissolve for 24 hours, stirring regularly, before using?

I have never had this happen. I use a very light mix of shellac preferring to do multiple coats as it is next to impossible to remove the shellac once in the felt. It could be that your concentration was very strong and all the shellac did not penetrate the felt and some is left sitting on the surface.
Have you tried giving it a generous spritz with just the denatured alcohol. That should dissolve the shellac. The put the hat back on the block and with a balled up cotton cloth see if you can force the shellac down into the fibres.

 

[Sage Wolf]

Did you use denatured alcohol with high ethanol content? I use 95% pure ethanol. How concentrated was the solution of shellac? I use a tablespoon in 250ml of alcohol. Did you let the shellac dissolve for 24 hours, stirring regularly, before using?

I have never had this happen. I use a very light mix of shellac preferring to do multiple coats as it is next to impossible to remove the shellac once in the felt. It could be that your concentration was very strong and all the shellac did not penetrate the felt and some is left sitting on the surface.
Have you tried giving it a generous spritz with just the denatured alcohol. That should dissolve the shellac. The put the hat back on the block and with a balled up cotton cloth see if you can force the shellac down into the fibres.

I used 99.9% isopropyl at 1tb of flakes to 1 cup of alcohol, and I crushed up the flakes as fine as I could and then let them fully dissolve, but not overnight. I applied the first coat with a brush and subsequent coats with a spray bottle.

I’ve tried spraying/soaking the spots with alcohol, scrubbing them while they’re soaked, and brushing them with some water.

 

[belfastboy]

I used 99.9% isopropyl at 1tb of flakes to 1 cup of alcohol.

I crushed up the flakes as fine as I could and then let them fully dissolve, but not overnight. I applied the first coat with a brush and subsequent coats with a spray bottle.

It could be that you used iso alcohol. It should be denatured alcohol. I use the Mohawk Finishing - Shellac reducer. How many coats did you put on? Did it only appear with the last coat? Somehow it seems that the shellac (did you use Clear or Super Blonde flakes?) did not penetrate the felt. So it was either not fully dissolved or you put on enough coats to saturate the felt and the white bloom is shellac sitting on the surface.
I would get some denatured alcohol and try spritzing it in order to dissolve it and drive it into the felt.

 

[Sage Wolf]

It could be that you used iso alcohol. It should be denatured alcohol. I use the Mohawk Finishing - Shellac reducer. How many coats did you put on? Did it only appear with the last coat? Somehow it seems that the shellac (did you use Clear or Super Blonde flakes?) did not penetrate the felt. So it was either not fully dissolved or you put on enough coats to saturate the felt and the white bloom is shellac sitting on the surface.
I would get some denatured alcohol and try spritzing it in order to dissolve it and drive it into the felt.

Thanks for the tips. I’ll pick up some denatured and give it a shot.

I’m not sure exactly how many coats I did, I just went until it was stiff enough, waiting overnight between coats. Probably 4 or 5

 

[belfastboy]

Thanks for the tips. I’ll pick up some denatured and give it a shot.

I’m not sure exactly how many coats I did, I just went until it was stiff enough, waiting overnight between coats. Probably 4 or 5

It depends too on how thick each coat was. I have stiffened hundreds of hats and have never had this problem. I have had the problem in the pouncing of the felt and going too deep and sanding into the shellac core. At this point the felt turns a lighter shade.....a mottled effect as I have exposed a general shellac core. When you stiffen a hat the shellac, fully dissolved should fully penetrate the felt and settle into the fibres. Something stopped your shellac from full penetration. Was your felt a good sturdy 230 gram western weight to start or something lighter?

 

[Sage Wolf]

It depends too on how thick each coat was. I have stiffened hundreds of hats and have never had this problem. I have had the problem in the pouncing of the felt and going too deep and sanding into the shellac core. At this point the felt turns a lighter shade.....a mottled effect as I have exposed a general shellac core. When you stiffen a hat the shellac, fully dissolved should fully penetrate the felt and settle into the fibres. Something stopped your shellac from full penetration. Was your felt a good sturdy 230 gram western weight to start or something lighter?

It’s 180g wool. Just a cheap one from Etsy

 

[belfastboy]

It’s 180g wool. Just a cheap one from Etsy

OK, I think that is your problem. I tried at one point to introduce an inexpensive line of ready to wear hats for women made from wool. I did a few trials and gave up. Life is too short to bother working with wool. Rabbit felt is not that much more expensive and will save you a world of grief. Keep an eye out on the "TheTrimmingCompany" website. They offer good rabbit fur felts for dirt cheap..from time to time. They are seconds but many times the flaw is hard to discern. I think milliners that work with wool use something else other than shellac as stiffener.

 

[belfastboy]

OK, I think that is your problem. I tried at one point to introduce an inexpensive line of ready to wear hats for women made from wool. I did a few trials and gave up. Life is too short to bother working with wool. Rabbit felt is not that much more expensive and will save you a world of grief. Keep an eye out on the "TheTrimmingCompany" website. They offer good rabbit fur felts for dirt cheap..from time to time. They are seconds but many times the flaw is hard to discern. I think milliners that work with wool use something else other than shellac as stiffener.

If asked...."What did you learn in working with wool felt?". My answer is...."I learned it is not something I ever want to do again."

 

[Sage Wolf]

OK, I think that is your problem. I tried at one point to introduce an inexpensive line of ready to wear hats for women made from wool. I did a few trials and gave up. Life is too short to bother working with wool. Rabbit felt is not that much more expensive and will save you a world of grief. Keep an eye out on the "TheTrimmingCompany" website. They offer good rabbit fur felts for dirt cheap..from time to time. They are seconds but many times the flaw is hard to discern. I think milliners that work with wool use something else other than shellac as stiffener.

Thanks a million for the advice. Would you recommend doing a rabbit one before I go to 50/50 beaver?

 

[belfastboy]

Thanks a million for the advice. Would you recommend doing a rabbit one before I go to 50/50 beaver?

Yes, I used the 'seconds' from Trimming Company as my practice felts. I really like the Millinery Warehouse Ukraine rabbit felts and at 160 grams are fairly stiff. Their consistency of quality is great and rabbit pricing has stayed pretty stable. At $60 it is not nearly as big a hit if you screw it up compared to the $140 for the blend. The Ukraine rabbit makes a great hat.