Who took the "Swing" out of swing dancing?

[Wild Root]

This is me just venting... any one can agree with me or disagree...

When I was a teen, I discovered swing music... coming from a taste that was established before hand for classical and 50's rock & roll/doo wop... I then discovered swing music... true swing music of the 40's and earlier. I fell in love with the melodies and the phrasing... the arrangements were amazing to me... the songs made me so happy! I found something I really liked and I wanted to learn to dance to that kind of music.

So, in 1996, I took a few classes... I learned the basic and stuck to it... I then explored by learning other steps and tricks from the dance floor from other friends of mine much like most kids did it in the original swing era.

As I would go to dances, I enjoyed recorded or live swing music. It was a really fun scene for the first 5 years or so. When I came back to California from a mission for my church, the scene wasn't the same... it was hanging on by a thread! Lots of places were dieing out and people were becoming "Anti vintage" they started by wearing track pants and flip flops to dances with T-shirts.

Then, within recent years, 80's music has infeltrated the swing scene. 80's music?! Any one can enjoy music of the last 20 years and I find nothing wrong with it... however, IT'S NOT SWING MUSIC!!! The 80's had dances of it's own... some pretty cool dances I might ad. Why do people insist insulting the integrety of the Jitterbug with music of a totally different rhythm and attitude? I don't go out dancing any more for the reason there are very few places that I can enjoy my self. For the most part, I'll go to see a live band because, they play dancable music.

Most places that do DJ music do play some swing type music... but, it's in such small numbers that it's not even worth my money to go out. I saw something that made me SICK!!! I was at Memories once and I asked the man to play a song on a CD I brough... now, he was a classy guy and played it for me with out a problem... but, soon as the song came on... the dance flore CLEARED!!! My friend and I were the only one's on the floor for most of the song! WHAT THE HECK IS THAT??? Swing dancers becoming "Anti Swing" or something??? Geeeeez, if you people don't like swing music, then GO TO AN 80's CLUB!

PUT THE "SWING" BACK IN SWING!!! I didn't learn to dance Jitterbug to dance to 70's or 80's music!:rage:

It's crazy, I was talking with a friend the other night and 50's music was mentioned... this friend said they didn't care for 50's music?! I find 50's music fun, happy music to dance too... the Jitterbug stlye is a happy dance... it's an expression of youth and being free and happy! I couldn't believe what I heard... how does any one get into dancing a stlye if they don't like the music? It just makes me so frustrated!

The towel is on the rack... just itching to be tossed in... I'm pretty close to giving up swing dancing all together.

In the words of Jeff Beauregard... IT'S ALL SCREWED UP!

=WR=

 

[Matt Deckard]

I don't know. I seperate the dance from the music on many occasions. I can Waltz to Rainbow Connection and can Charleston to Run DMC.

I seperate the dance from the music because Swing is too fun to be stuck in one style of music.

I may run into differeing opinions, though when Dead Man's Party hits the ears I have to Lindy. Same goes for Ricky Nelson music

 

[carebear]

I'm with Matt on this. I think it's great people are doing actual steps to any music as opposed to just pogoing or "Elaine-ing". Musical tastes change. The fact that all you need is a good steady 8 count beat to swing is its greatest strength.

It's dancing, not reenacting. If we insist on some kind of musical purity the dances will just die off again.

As for "anti-swing", remember that just because someone doesn't like something or promote is doesn't make them ipso facto against it. I run into that all the time with my gunnut-ism. Folks and companies get labelled "anti" by purists for the sin of not being flag-waving, "guns are great" proponents.

They don't have to dance to Louis Prima (though they're fools not to ) as long as they don't push the DJ to not ever play it again or ban it entirely. If they're on the floor doing inside turns and sleaze-outs to Milli Vanilli, more power to them. (well, maybe not to Milli Vanilli)

 

[Senator Jack]

New York's the same, WildRoot. Sadness has entered the dance floor. Seems to me even the really great dancers are doing it for 'exercise.' Saw a perfomance by members of one of the local swing schools, and was it possible they were dancing to Billy Joel? Or was it Elton John? Something horrible I recall, and I realized that swing was definitely dead in our city.

Regards,

Senator Jack

 

[WideBrimm]

Swing Dancing or Jitterbug ?

Swing Dancing ? What's that. It may be a generational thing (I'm an early "Boomer"), but when I learned to dance about 1960 it was known as the "jitterbug". I've always considered "swing" to be music, not dancing. Anyone care to comment ?

I've always liked swing / big band music (1930's to 1950's) and early rock (1950's to 1960's) and both styles are good for jitterbugging. But 1980's? About that time I totally lost interest in pop music. Today I'm more interested in smooth jazz.

 

[herringbonekid]

i'm an elitist snob too. if i go to a vintage/swing evening the LAST thing i want to hear is 80s music. but then i get annoyed if there's ONE person in modern trainers and jeans, so i'm already fighting a losing battle.

 

[Wild Root]

I'm some what conservative in my thinking in that things have their places and I'm a some what organized person. Having no boundaries or "Everything is ok" thought process is not me. Now, I'm not saying you shouldn't be able to dance any style of dance to any kind of music you want but, to go to a "Swing dance" and have a serious lack of said style of music is like going to a restaurant to eat and find out sell tires and the food is a vending machine in the corner that sells only candy and chips.

Memories just had an 80's night a few weeks ago... what bugs me is that people went to swing dance to 80's music... for me an 80's night would have been to go dressed in 80's fashion and dance 80's dances.

I'm a purest and a deep lover of Jazz and swing music... I found vintage style because of my love for the music... you could say the music of the 30's and 40's is the nexious of my life style... so, when I go to dance, I feel so uninspired to dance because the music isn't what I consider swing or Jitterbug music.

=WR=

 

[Wild Root]

It's dancing, not reenacting. If we insist on some kind of musical purity the dances will just die off again.

I never said that Jitterbugging should be reenacting... I don't believe that it should be. Now, let me ask you this... if you went to an 80's club and saw every one doing 80's moves to 30's music... would it be an 80's club?

Like I said, I couldn't give a rat's a$$ about what style of dance you to what kind of music but, when I go out to Jitterbug, I want Jitterbug music!

I say let the kids have the music but, don't forget the ROOTS of where this dance came from... it's an old dance, it was revived when people liked classic Jazz of the period and now, people have distorted it from what it was. When I say Anti, I mean Anti because when I see the floor clear of dancers, that's a demonstration that they don't support real Jazz or the history of said style. The DJ's play what kids like. Most of the kids that go to most DJ'd dances don't show up to see a real band.

I'm not anti any period... pick a period and do it the best you can but, something's should be left alone.

Like Ella said in a song of hers... I'm just a Jitterbug, a happy little Jitterbug, looking for a place to dance!

And for the record, it is Jitterbug, not swing dancing.

=WR=

 

[carebear]

As I would go to dances, I enjoyed recorded or live swing music. It was a really fun scene for the first 5 years or so. When I came back to California from a mission for my church, the scene wasn't the same... it was hanging on by a thread! Lots of places were dieing out and people were becoming "Anti vintage" they started by wearing track pants and flip flops to dances with T-shirts.

I guess I misread. Anchorage had one, count em one, "swing bar" during the revival, it also had swing nights at other places. Even then, the hardcore dancers were into the dance, a bit less to the music (the real music did make the best dancing) and very little into the clothes. There was not enough traffic to support the "pure swing" bar after a few years and it changed music type. in part because the folks who loved the dancing were there to dance, not drink. They tipped good on the water they drank but that doesn't pay the bills once the larger crowd moves on to the next trend. For a bar it had terrible bar receipts.

There are still swing lessons taught and occasional dances with the real deal music, but almost no one dresses up. They're "dancers" not vintage afficianados.

If the afficianado element cannot pay their way, then yes the "scene" will necessarily change. Don't blame the bars, DJ's or others. Enjoy the fact that the dance at least remains even if the crowd has lost interest in the music and may never have really had much love for the clothes.

This next will sound angry or snide but please do not read it that way. It is pure pragmatism.

If you want a vintage swing bar with vintage music and a vintage dress code, open one. If you can stay in business without compromising your ideals, more power to you. Not all of the places we bemoan the loss of were being mercenary, some at least had to be afficianados theselves. If they couldn't make it at the height and trailing edge of mass trendyness it may not be doable, especially now.

No reason to look down on what little remains in whatever fashion.

 

[Wild Root]

I guess I misread. Anchorage had one, count em one, "swing bar" during the revival, it also had swing nights at other places. Even then, the hardcore dancers were into the dance, a bit less to the music (the real music did make the best dancing) and very little into the clothes. There was not enough traffic to support the "pure swing" bar after a few years and it changed music type. in part because the folks who loved the dancing were there to dance, not drink. They tipped good on the water they drank but that doesn't pay the bills once the larger crowd moves on to the next trend. For a bar it had terrible bar receipts.

There are still swing lessons taught and occasional dances with the real deal music, but almost no one dresses up. They're "dancers" not vintage afficianados.

If the afficianado element cannot pay their way, then yes the "scene" will necessarily change. Don't blame the bars, DJ's or others. Enjoy the fact that the dance at least remains even if the crowd has lost interest in the music and may never have really had much love for the clothes.

This next will sound angry or snide but please do not read it that way. It is pure pragmatism.

If you want a vintage swing bar with vintage music and a vintage dress code, open one. If you can stay in business without compromising your ideals, more power to you. Not all of the places we bemoan the loss of were being mercenary, some at least had to be afficianados theselves. If they couldn't make it at the height and trailing edge of mass trendyness it may not be doable, especially now.

No reason to look down on what little remains in whatever fashion.

Well, first I'm surprised to hear they had one up that far north! Second, I know the type of people up there to a point and the 40's isn't the style that comes first to mind that would be very popular. It's amazing it lasted as long as it did. Third... dancers... they are some of the cheapest people on earth... my self included! lol I try and drink a soda at a club now and then, I do tip but, not like the REAL drinkers do. So, the whole thing does change to what the money wants.

For a long time 1992-2001 the scene down here was comprised of dancers that loved to dress vintage, who loved to dance to real bands and we all had some great times and there was a magic or energy to the air. Now, swing dances are as energetic as any ol' dive bar or slum club. I enjoyed the revival because it was different from what was out there... now, not so much. It's just a reason to move around on a floor and sweat for everyone... most of the vintage minded folks have dropped out because of this or, have moved to the Rockabilly scene because there, they take their stuff seriously.

I'd love to open my club... do it my way, have a live big band every night and a building dripping with art deco and class... cover charge would be modest to attract dancers and people who'd want a nice place to eat. But, I haven't the money to invest and the business know-how to do it.

I'm just depressed at the attitude most dancers have today... There are so many new dancers and they don't know what it used to be like... I'm true to my taste but, every one is a bunch of sheep... SHEEP! They twist and pervert something that was genuine and fun.

I'm no longer a member of the so called "Swing Scene" I'll go to dances where my kind of people are and the rest can enjoy what they have with out me.

High Regards,
=WR=

PS. It's not that I'm looking down on what is today, it just depresses me and leaves me uninspired.

 

[carebear]

PS. It's not that I'm looking down on what is today, it just depresses me and leaves me uninspired.

That I got no problem with. I can sympathize in fact.

It's funny, the same thing goes on in the shooting sports, "how it was" versus "what it's become".

I typically blame the hippys for it all, they ruin everything.

 

[Wild Root]

I typically blame the hippys for it all, they ruin everything.

:eusa_clap :eusa_clap :eusa_clap :eusa_clap

AMEN!

=WR=

 

[koopkooper]

I think many of these dancers that turn up to Swing Gigs are just that..Dancers. They only dance for dancing sake and not to enjoy the music to it's maximum potential. They could be doing Ballroom dancing but for some reason, fad I'm guessing, they choose Swing.

Quite frankly I wish they would go away and do competition Ballroom dancing because that's how they treat it anyway.

For me, on the odd occasion I do dance it is simply to enjoy the music physically, if you don't love the music you are in it for the wrong reason.

 

[koopkooper]

Oh and by the way Wildroot

Wildroot, I DJ from time to time and I've gotta say I think it's a bit rude to bring a CD for the DJ to play, it kinda says "man I hate your music, play this, I think my musical choices are better than yours"

As a DJ I am offended by people who run out to their glove compartment and pull out a stack of CD's. I don't care who hands it to me, I just say "thanks but no thanks,burn me a copy and I'll take it home to listen to properly and I may play it on another night if I think it will suit my set, I'm not willing to make a snapp decision on a song which might clear the floor" (which happend in your case)

I think it's a bit like the person who comes to a party at your house with his own music, apparently I'm not capable of making a decison on what my guests might like to listen to.....anyway that's my two cents worth.

 

[carebear]

Why draw a line between "ballroom" and "swing"? And what's wrong with "just dancing"?

I hardly feel the folks who love swing dancing at this point are just in it because of a trend, they're in it because you can dance it to anything with a decent beat AND it's uptempo and exciting. The Lindy is FUN whether you wear sweats or a suit. They are in fact at the swing gig to enjoy the music and dance sing are they not?

Maybe if the waltz or foxtrot had passes and flips they'd do that, but there's no reason to backhandly insult them because they happen to dig swing dancing. Hats are not a necessary requirement to truly enjoy the music, the dance and the experience.

I swear, some vintage folks should go visit muzzleloading forums. There's the same conflict between traditional blackpowder shooters who dress in buckskins and the folks who wear Realtree and shoot inlines with pyrodex pellets.

 

[koopkooper]

I don't think you get it, I wasn't taking a backhand swipe at them..I was quite direct, I don't like them. Perhaps they just aren't good enough to do Ballroom Dancing, cos it does actually require talent.

 

[Wild Root]

Wildroot, I DJ from time to time and I've gotta say I think it's a bit rude to bring a CD for the DJ to play, it kinda says "man I hate your music, play this, I think my musical choices are better than yours"

As a DJ I am offended by people who run out to their glove compartment and pull out a stack of CD's. I don't care who hands it to me, I just say "thanks but no thanks,burn me a copy and I'll take it home to listen to properly and I may play it on another night if I think it will suit my set, I'm not willing to make a snapp decision on a song which might clear the floor" (which happend in your case)

I think it's a bit like the person who comes to a party at your house with his own music, apparently I'm not capable of making a decison on what my guests might like to listen to.....anyway that's my two cents worth.

Well, you can choose to take offence if you like but, the reason why I brought my own is because I knew the music was going to suck! I knew before hand that the DJ wasn't going to have Les Brown's song I wanted to hear and he was more then happy to play it. I have requested many songs to DJ's over here before and have provided my own music... I'm a serious collector of Jazz and historical recordings from the 20's -40's. The DJ's I know would take a CD and play it, tell me what they thought of it and then if they liked it, they'd play it... now, what I did was completely ok and the music I wanted to play wasn't bad... no more then 3 years ago, that song wouldn't have cleared the floor... today, these idiots don't know good music if it bit them in the face. I'm not rude, and if any DJ refused to play something out side of his library, I'd have left and have never come. I believe the DJ is to play whatever the customers want... and I was a customer and wanted to dance to a song that made me happy. It was a curve ball to the dancers there but, after a few bars, they started to come out on the floor. It's time these kids taste real swing music... what the dance is all about.

If you couldn't tell, I'm very passionate about the Big Band era and what it was and why it was great... now, if a DJ has a serious problem with playing a simple swing song at a Swing dance, then there's a serious problem!

In the old days, I would ask the DJ if he had a song... 90% of the time they said they did have it and they'd play it but, if they didn't, they'd ask me if I had a copy of it and they'd play it for me... these were DJ's who have large collections of songs from the 20's to the 60's. They never found it offensive to play out side recordings if the music was good.

How's them apples?

=WR=

 

[Harp]

Swing

Chicago has deep roots in blues/jazz, a natural result from the 1920-30s
diaspora out of the alluvial Mississsippi delta. The Chicago blues/jazz scene suffered some during the turbulent 1960s; especially along the famed
southside where it had first settled down and prospered. A number of hard
core joints managed to survive, struggled through the 70-80s, became
nomadic, popping about various venues, but remain standing. Other new
places opened during the following years, giving the town's blues/jazz
scene a needed boost.

The local Big Band scene is more sparse. Swing music and dance is
still around Chicago, but needs to be found. Personally, I'm a lousy
dancer, and really just favor the music but it would be a shame if swing
dancing died out alltogether.

 

[carebear]

I don't think you get it, I wasn't taking a backhand swipe at them..I was quite direct, I don't like them. Perhaps they just aren't good enough to do Ballroom Dancing, cos it does actually require talent.

So you think a Waltz or Rumba take more talent and practice than a fast Lindy Hop?

Which is irrelevent, because they aren't there to compete for prizes, they're there to have fun dancing, not to play dress up or to talk accurate jive. Exactly the same as those non-pros of the earlier era who just Rumba'd and Foxtrotted for the fun of it were there to just dance. (Probably offending the ballroom purists of their era).

I guess I was unaware national competitive ranking or access to a movie studio costumer was a club prerequisite for hitting a dance floor now. God save us from the self-righteous purists, they kill that which they love.

Would I prefer to see people put a little effort into looking presentable (if in modern attire) and not treat a dance floor like a gym?

Yes.

Am I going to petulantly question their talent or dedication to dancing because they are slobs who wear sweats?

No.

 

[koopkooper]

My point exactly

Wildroot, you have vindicated exactly what I said about assuming you can put together a playlist better than the DJ.
I think if you are so passionate about the music and what the guy in the box is playing then perhaps you should be a DJ yourself.
As far as requests are concerned I think it's a bit rich to expect the DJ to have any song you ask for ready to be cued and played. I like you have a huge collection of music and it's just not possible to bring every record or to go searching through a massive collection to find one damn song while you are trying to do a show.
Sure the music might suck and you have every right to leave, but do think og the poor cat trying to do his job, he doesn't need to be pestered by the punter and their musical whims. The same goes for bands, just because the song you'd like is not on the bands playlist is not reason to take it out on them either, they aren't a jukebox, sure ask them when they take a break of they know a song, if they don't the band leader might ask you about the song and try to learn it. I guess what I'm saying is that there is a civil way of doing this.