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Y'2 HR-41 Single Riders

greenc

Familiar Face
Messages
79
Hi everyone,

Does anyone here have firsthand experience with a Y'2 HR-41 Single Riders vintage horsehide jacket? I'm contemplating this piece but I don't know if I need a 36 or a 38.

Pursuant to my post last weekend about being confounded by sizing I'm thinking 38. My Y'2 Double Riders has 16.25 inch shoulders and fits quite nicely, while my Thedi CR has 17.25 inch shoulders and feels almost the same. I guess the different patterns are what's causing the disparity in the numbers.

I spoke to a company that retails the HR-41 and they gave me 17.75 inch shoulders, however, another retailer says 17.25.

A half inch isn't going to break anything but I was just hoping that someone here owned one in size 38 and could post a few photos of the tape measure across the shoulders and giving the P2P.

I have to buy either size online and because one is pre-owned I have no ability to return it if it doesn't fit.

Just trying to do as much research as I can. Thank you all, appreciate the ongoing support. The enclosed photos show the jacket.

Chris
 

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Marc mndt

I'll Lock Up
Messages
7,047
No two jackets are exactly the same, they're made by humans.

I owned a couple of elmc Californians size 42, each jacket fit slightly differently.

Also, people take measurements differently.
 

greenc

Familiar Face
Messages
79
No two jackets are exactly the same, they're made by humans.

I owned a couple of elmc Californians size 42, each jacket fit slightly differently.

Also, people take measurements differently.
Absolutely, I understand that - am still just hoping to get a visual prior to making a purchase.
 

Aloysius

My Mail is Forwarded Here
Messages
3,705
Serious question: why gamble with this rather than a similar jacket from a western maker with a more bulletproof pattern and return policy?

I realize I’m sounding this drum a lot these days but I think people keep rushing to Japanese jackets that are a gamble when there are better alternatives. (And I do so as someone who has bought and enjoyed a number of Japanese jackets I really like, though crucially they could not have been gotten elsewhere.)
 

bigmanbigtruck

One of the Regulars
Messages
202
like @Marc mndt mentioned, 2 jackets with the same size tag could measure slightly different. There's always some variance due to the characteristics of the panels, the craftsmanship and even the method of measuring itself. Typically makers mention a variance of 0.5" which lines up with the numbers you mentioned. That being said, if you're good with shoulder measurements between 16.25" & 17.25", it doesn't sound like the shoulders will be a limiting factor for this jacket.

Serious question: why gamble with this rather than a similar jacket from a western maker with a more bulletproof pattern and return policy?

I realize I’m sounding this drum a lot these days but I think people keep rushing to Japanese jackets that are a gamble when there are better alternatives. (And I do so as someone who has bought and enjoyed a number of Japanese jackets I really like, though crucially they could not have been gotten elsewhere.)

What I'm gonna state probably sounds super obvious, but in any case...

As someone relatively new to all this, I could share my experience which other newcomers most likely go through to some extent. When initially researching outerwear and workwear there is a large pipeline of content out there geared around the superiority of Japanese products, such as denim, boots and jackets and especially their attention to detail and reproducing the classics to an even better standard. The fact that you see these Japanese mfgs dominating multiple categories of products only reinforces the idea that they're the holy grail. Now that I know better, a lot of this is hype, but that doesn't mean it's total BS either.

Besides the Japanese stuff, the only other brand you hear most about is Schott for their perfectos and crap like Thursday and All Saints. Anyhow, my thinking was very simple - if I hear so much good stuff about Japanese crafted products and I'm serious about getting some good quality, I'd rather go with that. But at least I did my homework and tried some jackets beforehand and got some measurement info so I have some idea of what to expect.

That being said, I did discover TFL and found out that there's actually so much more to look at - Shinki and Japanese jackets are not the end of the line, just a gateway drug lol.

Do I regret getting a RMC now? not at all... do I wanna try out other things? Certainly.
Did my wallet get lighter? Featherweight... (spend responsibly of course)
 
Last edited:

Aloysius

My Mail is Forwarded Here
Messages
3,705
As someone relatively new to all this, I could share my experience which other newcomers most likely go through to some extent. When initially researching outerwear and workwear there is a large pipeline of content out there geared around the superiority of Japanese products, such as denim, boots and jackets and especially their attention to detail and reproducing the classics to an even better standard. The fact that you see these Japanese mfgs dominating multiple categories of products only reinforces the idea that they're the holy grail. Now that I know better, a lot of this is hype, but that doesn't mean it's total BS either.

It's not total BS, but it's mostly BS. Like I said, there are a lot of Japanese amekaji brands I have bought and continue to buy from. There absolutely is good Japanese stuff. There's also a whole lot of terrible Japanese stuff, including high priced stuff.

Most of the content mills are essentially infomercial material produced with funding from weeb shops like Standard & Strange and Self Edge. I like the line used by one of our forum members (himself I think pretty influential among workwear wearers) about a certain brand, "People like it because stores tell them to like it".

There's also a sort of organic version of the same that's percolated for years on places like Superfuture and to an extent Styleforum. This has resulted in some truly bizarre things like people getting expensive boots made of Shinki shell cordovan (basically a waste product tier leather that is so bad that the even $200 Spanish shoe companies even used to think was too low quality to use).
 

jchance

One of the Regulars
Messages
225
Location
Los Angeles
I haven’t seen much of Y’2 leather jackets around TFL. They are not getting any love here, that may say something about their quality or perhaps it’s possible that there is a lack of exposure. You may interpret that however you’d like.
 

Aloysius

My Mail is Forwarded Here
Messages
3,705
To be clear I'm not casting aspersions on Y2 here.

Rather I'm saying that his kind of "this might not fit and I can't return it" gamble only seems to make sense in the context of people feeling they must have brand X, and that's not really a path for success with this kind of thing.

I would understand it if it were some kind of really unusual jacket design, but this is a bog standard cafe racer.
 

greenc

Familiar Face
Messages
79
Serious question: why gamble with this rather than a similar jacket from a western maker with a more bulletproof pattern and return policy?

I realize I’m sounding this drum a lot these days but I think people keep rushing to Japanese jackets that are a gamble when there are better alternatives. (And I do so as someone who has bought and enjoyed a number of Japanese jackets I really like, though crucially they could not have been gotten elsewhere.)
You raise a good point and the primary reason that I'm on the Y'2 train is simply that I got a ridiculously good deal on the D-pocket and I actually really enjoy the leather. The horsehide is thick but soft and it's got a nice feel.

As such, I've been thinking about a new CR and when I saw the HR-41 in the same leather as my HR-55 I thought it seemed like the right choice. The silhouette of the jacket is also nice, however, I've never owned a Single Riders and I'm wondering how the back panel will look on me. It doesn't have an action back so I'm curious about mobility.

I live in Toronto and Himel Bros is literally a 15-min drive from my house - trouble is, I don't necessarily want to pay what it takes to get a Himel at retail. Looking for one pre-owned would likely be the play. Last November I was looking to meet a fellow Lounger who had a Himel Kensington for sale but literally two days before, my firm laid off 20% of the staff because a major client broke the contract and left.

Feeling a great deal of uncertainty I kept the money in the bank and didn't make the purchase. It's a shame because it was a great jacket.

That aside, what I'm trying to say is that I have limited experience with Japanese jackets outside of getting lucky with Y'2 once before, and of course reading myriad reviews and threads on a variety of brands.

I'd love a preowned Vanson C2, but I'm not at all interested in a new one primarily based on Vanson's website. Those fit photos are terrible - it's all voluminous sleeves, and an ocean of leather on the back panels. And it's the same with Langlitz, I think their older jackets are beautiful but the website is terrible.

Really, what I'm looking for is a slim-fitting CR - ideally in horsehide because I like how it breaks in - from a quality brand, no matter the maker.

And preowned is even better.
 

greenc

Familiar Face
Messages
79
I haven’t seen much of Y’2 leather jackets around TFL. They are not getting any love here, that may say something about their quality or perhaps it’s possible that there is a lack of exposure. You may interpret that however you’d like.
Y'2 certainly doesn't get the love that Freewheelers, RMC, and The Flathead do, but they seem a quality brand and I like their patterns. The Shop Vancouver is keen on them and it's been fun watching TJ's videos on the various models.

As I mentioned above, I'm also interested in a Vanson C2 or an older Langlitz CR.

Much as I try to be I'm just not necessarily a vintage guy, and in searching the Classifieds here what comes up more times than not are size 40 and above. Lots of half-belts and such but I'm looking for something specific and having not quite found it when the time was right - the Himel noted above - I've started looking farther afield, hence Mercari and Yahoo Japan.
 

bigmanbigtruck

One of the Regulars
Messages
202
It's not total BS, but it's mostly BS. Like I said, there are a lot of Japanese amekaji brands I have bought and continue to buy from. There absolutely is good Japanese stuff. There's also a whole lot of terrible Japanese stuff, including high priced stuff.

Don't disagree there. There's certainly a lot more effort needed to separate the wheat from the chaff.
 

bigmanbigtruck

One of the Regulars
Messages
202
I'd love a preowned Vanson C2, but I'm not at all interested in a new one primarily based on Vanson's website. Those fit photos are terrible - it's all voluminous sleeves, and an ocean of leather on the back panels.
Don't sell 'em short... you're right the photos on their website look horrible, they seem to give their models oversized jackets. But if you explore some threads like WJAYWT, you'll see some incredible fit pics.
 

Aloysius

My Mail is Forwarded Here
Messages
3,705
Does Schott make a CR in horsehide? They have such a large catalog of options it kind of confuses me

The 641HH and 689H (essentially the same jacket, with a mandarin and spread collar respectively) are made out of my favorite black horsehide on the market.

I'd love a preowned Vanson C2, but I'm not at all interested in a new one primarily based on Vanson's website. Those fit photos are terrible - it's all voluminous sleeves, and an ocean of leather on the back panels. And it's the same with Langlitz, I think their older jackets are beautiful but the website is terrible.

You can use TFL as a reference point for fit photos of Vanson. This is a good time to check out Vanson stuff because as part of their 50th anniversary, they're offering many RTW jackets in the much more TFL-like Roma leather, which has a rich pullup to it.
 

jchance

One of the Regulars
Messages
225
Location
Los Angeles
Much as I try to be I'm just not necessarily a vintage guy, and in searching the Classifieds here what comes up more times than not are size 40 and above. Lots of half-belts and such but I'm looking for something specific and having not quite found it when the time was right - the Himel noted above - I've started looking farther afield, hence Mercari and Yahoo Japan.

You appear to be a tall skinny dude (5’11 with 38” chest). If you think about a typical Japanese figure, their average male height is 5’7 with a 34-35” chest (I’m guessing the chest measurement because most used leather jackets I saw on Mercari and Yahoo JP auction are 36-38 in JP sizing(!)). The typical Japanese leather jackets are made to cater to the typical clientele — the average Japanese male. You don’t seem to fit JP market. When you’re buying JP-made leather jackets, you’re taking a huge gamble on sizing and fit.
 

Aloysius

My Mail is Forwarded Here
Messages
3,705
You appear to be a tall skinny dude (5’11 with 38” chest). If you think about a typical Japanese figure, their average male height is 5’7 with a 34-35” chest (I’m guessing the chest measurement because most used leather jackets I saw on Mercari and Yahoo JP auction are 36-38 in JP sizing(!)). The typical Japanese leather jackets are made to cater to the typical clientele — the average Japanese male. You don’t seem to fit JP market. When you’re buying JP-made leather jackets, you’re taking a huge gamble on sizing and fit.

Even western brands in Japan can get you screwed. I've mentioned elsewhere on this forum that in the Schott factory sale I helped a 34" chest short guy find a jacket that fit (if a bit snugly!) by handing him Schott Japan size 38.
 

greenc

Familiar Face
Messages
79
You appear to be a tall skinny dude (5’11 with 38” chest). If you think about a typical Japanese figure, their average male height is 5’7 with a 34-35” chest (I’m guessing the chest measurement because most used leather jackets I saw on Mercari and Yahoo JP auction are 36-38 in JP sizing(!)). The typical Japanese leather jackets are made to cater to the typical clientele — the average Japanese male. You don’t seem to fit JP market. When you’re buying JP-made leather jackets, you’re taking a huge gamble on sizing and fit.
I am a skinny dude, that's true. I'm not terribly big, which is why I like jackets that fit closer to the body - anything slightly large feels uncomfortable to me, as if I'm wearing a friend's jacket that doesn't fit. I'd rather have it be slightly tight than slightly too big.

Still, I want things to fit and as much as jackets are outerwear I only put them on over a t-shirt so I'm not layering and don't need the extra room.

Again, I'm manufacturer agnostic, I just want something beautiful that looks nice and feels good on.
 

Aloysius

My Mail is Forwarded Here
Messages
3,705
For a close-fitting cafe racer, Vanson's Comet should definitely be in contention. Hard to do better than it at any price.

The Mohawk seems similar in that respect though I don't own one.
 

greenc

Familiar Face
Messages
79
The 641HH and 689H (essentially the same jacket, with a mandarin and spread collar respectively) are made out of my favorite black horsehide on the market.



You can use TFL as a reference point for fit photos of Vanson. This is a good time to check out Vanson stuff because as part of their 50th anniversary, they're offering many RTW jackets in the much more TFL-like Roma leather, which has a rich pullup to it.
Just looked at the 614HH, beautiful jacket, and I like the one piece back with the action pleats and side tabs. Do you own one? Is it stiff from new? Also, Schott doesn't give dimensions on the page, do they run true to size?
 

Aloysius

My Mail is Forwarded Here
Messages
3,705
Just looked at the 614HH, beautiful jacket, and I like the one piece back with the action pleats and side tabs. Do you own one? Is it stiff from new? Also, Schott doesn't give dimensions on the page, do they run true to size?

Stiff from new, but quick to break in. The jacket is true to size. They can send you a measurements sheet if you ask but I find the size detector tool there is extremely accurate so I would fill that in first and see what you get.
 

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