A Resurgence of Hats

[scottyrocks]

There is no one 'general public.' Today's public is so splintered between economic, ethnic, religious, etc groups, that many things said and done in one group don't apply the same way in some others, although, of course, some do. So, bouncing off what jlee said, being offensive and taking offense are not sure things.

 

[Yeps]

Ears are constantly plugged with music

Because life is better with a soundtrack.

or they're on the cell phone/internet,

it gets excessive sometimes, but communication is nice.

or have their eyes closed

You begrudge us a little nap on the train?

/reading.

Really? You have a problem with reading? Few enough people read as it is. Leave them alone.

Modern societies obsession with on the go entertainment exists because people are doing everything they can not to have to interact with the people around them.

This seems like quite a leap of reasoning. Other than personal opinion/misanthropy, why would you say this?

 

[EggHead]

Manor Coffee Shop on West Portal has hooks, whenever I'm in there, my hat is on the hook!

I still have not been to Tadich Grill, shame on me, I could use a good hangtown fry.

Thanks jlee, I sometimes go to West Portal, there is an interesting kids gift shop there. I will also visit that coffee place.

 

[EggHead]

BTW, in San Francisco, if you go to older restaurants, chances are that you will have hat hooks available. Some seafood and Italian restaurants come to mind along Fisherman's Wharf and Columbus street.

BTW, I get not so much offended, but annoyed at people whose music noise I can hear through their headphones when riding PT.

 

[facade]

There is no one 'general public.' Today's public is so splintered between economic, ethnic, religious, etc groups, that many things said and done in one group don't apply the same way in some others, although, of course, some do. So, bouncing off what jlee said, being offensive and taking offense are not sure things.

I completey agree. When societies become so fractured it becomes impossible to have a social etiquette. There are just too many people following either different or no rules at all. In order to limit the disorder such fracturing causes, governments are forced to restrict the power of individuals and groups of individuals. As individuals are made powerless by the government, there is no way to enforce a social norm. So in the public you will be bombarded by the intentionally rude (those who only think of themselves) and the unintentionally rude (those following a different set of rules). People don't know how to act around each other because there are no common social rules. As people are powerless against this chaos the only option is to become deaf, dumb and blind.

 

[job]

Too deep for me. Wearing a hat at the diner table is poor manners. Did your mother teach you manners. Your mother is not from a hundred years ago.

 

[Sam Craig]

Sorry, Job, but there are a lot of places in the West where a hat at the dinner table is NOT bad manners.

Your momma's would not be one of them, however, I do agree!

Sam

 

[Travis Lee Johnston]

It seems more of a midwest and east coast etiquette thing to not wear a hat indoors or at the table from people I've met from those places and being originally from the midwest myself. Here and in California I've seen people with hats on inside and in restaurants. Young and old.

 

[Undertow]

The thing is, etiquette is norms based...Which is of course not to say that one should not break their own personal rules if they feel uncomfortable doing so...

Quite right on all accounts (I simply abridged your info to fit better). You and Pompidou have very good points.

I suppose I'm looking at it from a different angle, and probably not a correct one at that.

Example, gun safety. If society does not observe specific etiquette (read routine) in the safe handling of guns, it will not change the need for said etiquette, and most responsible gun owners will not change their routine. If you and I are both gun owners and we meet at a firing range, regardless of society's norms, we will both appreciate each other's safe handling of our firearms. Thus, regardless of the way society feels, you and I both know what is needed and we follow those standards.

Therefore, when I wear my hat, I specifically observe proper etiqutte not just for society, but especially for the folks who know and appreciate my gestures. Does this make sense? I'm not arguing your point, I guess I'm just filling in my own.

 

[jlee562]

I completey agree. When societies become so fractured it becomes impossible to have a social etiquette. There are just too many people following either different or no rules at all. In order to limit the disorder such fracturing causes, governments are forced to restrict the power of individuals and groups of individuals. As individuals are made powerless by the government, there is no way to enforce a social norm. So in the public you will be bombarded by the intentionally rude (those who only think of themselves) and the unintentionally rude (those following a different set of rules). People don't know how to act around each other because there are no common social rules. As people are powerless against this chaos the only option is to become deaf, dumb and blind.

And now you're contradicting yourself because earlier you said that such actions were offensive to the "general public" but you're agreeing that no such thing exists.

As I said, I have a background in social sciences, and I find your reasoning hard to follow. Am I to understand per your previous post that you are suggesting assault in order to "correct" someone's manners?

Its rare that being rude results in a punch in the nose. Since you can't do anything to a rude person that will modify their behavior and not result in your getting arrested, people instead deal with it another way.

 

[facade]

And now you're contradicting yourself because earlier you said that such actions were offensive to the "general public" but you're agreeing that no such thing exists.

As I said, I have a background in social sciences, and I find your reasoning hard to follow. Am I to understand per your previous post that you are suggesting assault in order to "correct" someone's manners?

There is a general public. I do not believe he was literally saying he believes there is no general public. His point was that within the general public of this country there are many competing factions and little common ground. To that I agree.

Regarding a punch in the nose, I am not advocating any sort of behavior, violent or otherwise. I am simply stating that without consequences a greater percentage of the population will feel free to engage in offensive behavior.

 

[jlee562]

To which my reply would be that what qualifies as "offensive" is not universal and that society dictates what is offensive. If society does not find behavior x, y, or z, than, for all intents and purposes, it is not offensive, even though at the individual level we may object to it as such.

 

[scottyrocks]

There is a general public. I do not believe he was literally saying he believes there is no general public. His point was that within the general public of this country there are many competing factions and little common ground. To that I agree.

Regarding a punch in the nose, I am not advocating any sort of behavior, violent or otherwise. I am simply stating that without consequences a greater percentage of the population will feel free to engage in offensive behavior.

I don't believe there is literally no general public. Just making a point. Fractured society kind of thing. Also, I use the term 'punch in the nose' to make a point, as in, harsh enough measures to affect a change.

 

[jlee562]

Not withstanding the fact that I have never lived in a different era, I find the idea that society is more "fractured" today as opposed to say, the 20's or 30's to be, shall we say, unconvincing. The most obvious reason being racial segregation. But more obliquely, advancements in transportation and communication, consolidation of media and media consumption, have had a homogenizing effect on society. Which is not to say that there are no divisions be they regional, ethnic, cultural, economic or otherwise, but I don't see a seismic shift in the very nature of society.

 

[scottyrocks]

Not withstanding the fact that I have never lived in a different era, I find the idea that society is more "fractured" today as opposed to say, the 20's or 30's to be, shall we say, unconvincing. The most obvious reason being racial segregation. But more obliquely, advancements in transportation and communication, consolidation of media and media consumption, have had a homogenizing effect on society. Which is not to say that there are no divisions be they regional, ethnic, cultural, economic or otherwise, but I don't see a seismic shift in the very nature of society.

Where I live and were I work are like two different planets. Not a lot of homogenization between the two.

 

[jlee562]

Where I live and were I work are like two different planets. Not a lot of homogenization between the two.

But my argument pertains to wider societal effects. Consider the advent of television and its ubiquity in the American home. Prior to the advent of television, news was disseminated through radio and newspapers. Although there was some consolidation of this media (E.G. William Randolph Hearst), by in large, the information was localized. Sure, there were national news stories, but because of the inherent limited range of radio, there was no true national medium of information. Until television. TV comes along and eventually we're all watching the same shows, seeing the same advertisements - which means that to a much larger extent than before, people are socialized much more homogeneously than they had been previously.

 

[scottyrocks]

Yes, true, but there are still vastly different thought patterns between different types of groups. And this is what relates to the point we were talking about earlier - how offense may or not be taken because of these differing ways of thinking, regardless of how we receive our information via mass media.

 

[jlee562]

No, I understand that point. I'm simply saying that I don't see how society is supposedly more "fractured" today than it was in years past where you had deeper divisions along ethnic and regional lines. And my argument is not just about mass media, that is merely the easiest way to illustrate my point.

 

[maxrob200]

Just noticing a sudden increase in prices/popularity on ebay for Stetson Western hats in general. I have a theory - Dr Who Series Series 6 starts off with the good doctor proclaiming "I wear a Stetson- Stetsons are cool". Since that time (or my imagination) I've observed hat prices steadily rising.

 

[scottyrocks]

No, I understand that point. I'm simply saying that I don't see how society is supposedly more "fractured" today than it was in years past where you had deeper divisions along ethnic and regional lines. And my argument is not just about mass media, that is merely the easiest way to illustrate my point.

Okay, I see your point. I guess I wasn't saying that society is more fractured, just fractured.