current dress trends

[Flicka]

Question: why do men's clothes come in so many different size combos and women's don't? Because unlike men, we all have the same shape? :eusa_doh:

Take me; I can't wear shirts because I either can't button them over the chest or there's room for one more person in the shoulder and waist area. And doesn't our waist/hip ratio vary significantly? So why aren't there tops in different bust sizes and trousers for wide/slim hips?

Because we don't demand it. We're made to feel that we should make our bodies fit the clothes instead of vice versa. We don't complain because we know, deep down, that we should be ashamed for not having the ideal body measurements.

 

[Flat Foot Floey]

Question: why do men's clothes come in so many different size combos and women's don't? Because unlike men, we all have the same shape? :eusa_doh:

I rather doubt that. Off the rack the fit is often quite bad. If tall men with broad shoulders would buy XXL they would hang liek a tent too. We would use made to measure or bespoke for difficult sizes. And we would need to pay the prize for it.

 

[Rudie]

I agree. Most men don't seem to care about proper fit and are content with whatever ill-fitting clothes they get. They probably don't know any better. I have basically given up on OTR clothes. I either buy vintage and have it altered or turn to makers like Aero to get a custom job. Shirts are impossible for me to get OTR. If the neck is fine, the shoulders are too narrow and the sleeves too short. If they fit in the shoulders the neck is too wide and the sleeves are still too short. And if the sleeves fit I can use the shirt as a tent for a football team. So I switched to MTM/bespoke entirely. Knitwear is extremely difficult to obtain for me. If I get the short, close fitting style I prefer the sleeves usually end just below the elbow. If I have the luck to find a sweater with sleeves that are long enough for me, it's usually another tent for a football team.

 

[J.W.]

Rudie, where do you get your shirts?

 

[LizzieMaine]

See, there's the difference -- when men discuss the fit of clothing, the idea is to change the clothes to fit them, or have clothes made to their measurements: none of you guys are talking about gaining or losing weight to secure the proper fit. Modern-oriented women having this same conversation would very likely be talking about how they could lose weight to fit into the clothes -- it would occur to very few of them to alter the clothes themselves or take them to someone to have them altered to get a proper fit. And thereby hangs the dilemma.

 

[Rudie]

Usually from Hemrajani Bros. --> http://www.mytailor.com They are willing to do custom jobs like creating collar styles that are not in their standard repertoire. I've had them make spearpoint collars for me and special arrow shaped cuffs. And they do unfused collars and cuffs, which is important to me.

A few weeks ago I placed an order with Jantzen Tailors, ordering the British 1920s/30s shirt Baron Kurtz had replicated by them. I hope this turns out well. If not, I'm back to Hemrajani Bros.

 

[J.W.]

Thanks for the info!

 

[Rudie]

Lizzie, I think this frame of mind is similar to that of the women who are getting a boob job, hoping to get rid of their inferiority complex. It changes their appearance, but not their self-esteem. They should focus on improving that, not on changing their bodies.

BTW, I don't think men generally have a healthier self-esteem than women. They just don't associate it as much with their appearance as women do, I believe.

 

[Gin&Tonics]

See, there's the difference -- when men discuss the fit of clothing, the idea is to change the clothes to fit them, or have clothes made to their measurements: none of you guys are talking about gaining or losing weight to secure the proper fit. Modern-oriented women having this same conversation would very likely be talking about how they could lose weight to fit into the clothes -- it would occur to very few of them to alter the clothes themselves or take them to someone to have them altered to get a proper fit. And thereby hangs the dilemma.

What's even more ironic perhaps is that word on the street says that women's clothing is far easier to make than men's. From what I've seen, it's a bloody nightmare to construct a man's suit jacket properly, while women's clothing apparently is fairly easy to make in various sizes and shapes. Why should women have to alter their bodies to fit their clothes when it's so easy to make clothes to fit their bodies?

If it's any consolation to you, I'm 6'2", 200 lbs, with very long arms and legs and a somewhat compact torso. It's nigh impossible to find anything off the rack that fits me properly, hence why I've resorted to trying made to measure over the internet to buy a suit and 3 shirts.

 

[Noirblack]

See, there's the difference -- when men discuss the fit of clothing, the idea is to change the clothes to fit them, or have clothes made to their measurements: none of you guys are talking about gaining or losing weight to secure the proper fit. Modern-oriented women having this same conversation would very likely be talking about how they could lose weight to fit into the clothes -- it would occur to very few of them to alter the clothes themselves or take them to someone to have them altered to get a proper fit. And thereby hangs the dilemma.

The most recent comments in this thread from men (Pompidou, Flat Foot Flooey, and Rudie) don't say anything about being too large and not being able to fit into clothing. Pompidou indicated that he can't keep weight on. From Flat Foot Flooey and Rudie's comments there is no indication that they are large men. They just have the typical issues that OTR doesn't fit. Maybe the neck is good, but the sleeves aren't right. Or the torso of a shirt billows out far too much. How will losing weight help in this case? I am 6 feet tall and 150 pounds. My biggest problem is shirts that have way to much material in the torso. You say men don't talk about gaining or losing weight to fit into clothing. Well, losing weight won't help in my case. As for gaining weight, why on earth would i grow my stomach in order to fill out an OTR shirt?

For both men and women who are larger, they might feel that it is because of their size that a garment does not fit properly. However, improper fit with OTR clothing happens to everyone. So this means either you try on lots of clothing before making a purchase or you take your OTR item to a tailor or seamstress (or fix it yourself if you can).

 

[Noirblack]

Sure, I can go buy any piece of women's clothing I want in a size ten at pretty much any brick and morter shop. I think the original point was that most of them are going to be plaid with ruffels on the bosom, awkward 3/4 length sleeves, a puffy midsection, and an elastic band around the hips. The result is that I am going to look 30 lbs heavier. Yes, this might look cute on Candice Swanepoel, but on a regular (normal bmi woman) this will look hideous. That is how the vast majority of clothes are designed.

I don't understand. Isn't a size 10 for women a "normal" size? Is your point that you can only buy styles you don't like? Isn't a size 10 considered a medium in women's sizes?

 

[Flicka]

I don't understand. Isn't a size 10 for women a "normal" size? Is your point that you can only buy styles you don't like? Isn't a size 10 considered a medium in women's sizes?

The point is, obviously, that women's fashion isn't made to look good in size 10. It's made to look good in size 4. And, that brings us back to: women's clothing are made for people significantly thinner than the ordinary woman. Which is a point you want to contest, whereas most females seem to recognise it.

I'm guessing different genders, different experiences. [huh]

 

[rene_writer]

The point is, obviously, that women's fashion isn't made to look good in size 10. It's made to look good in size 4. And, that brings us back to: women's clothing are made for people significantly thinner than the ordinary woman. Which is a point you want to contest, whereas most females seem to recognise it.

I'm guessing different genders, different experiences.

Exactly. I'm "normal" sized. The fashion industry wants nothing to do with me and has no interest in flattering my body.

 

[Flat Foot Floey]

I'm guessing different genders, different experiences. [huh]

Why? Most of modern men's fashion also doesn't look good in every size. It's not gender specific.

That is what I wanted to express in my last posting. The possibilty of getting made to measure or bespoke is the same for women. It seems to be more expensive than the disposable clothes at the chainstore. But men have to go the extra mile too. It is not possible to go into a chain store and buy a suit that looks and fits like a 30s suit. That's why we are here.

For example: Big armholes on modern suits are one classic FL topic. I think Matt Deckard started to mention that since the 80s the armholes are too big due to a wrong "one size cut must fit all sizes" approach. It just doesn't work this way.

 

[Rudie]

The fashion industry isn't interested in good fit for individuals but in making big bucks at the lowest production cost possible. To achieve this they cut the garments in a way that insures that as many people as possible can wear the same size. Hence big armholes and generally bad fit. The more people have to fit in the same size the less likely that the garment actually fits well.

 

[Noirblack]

Exactly. I'm "normal" sized. The fashion industry wants nothing to do with me and has no interest in flattering my body.

This item

http://www1.macys.com/shop/product/...egoryID=157#fn=sp=1&spc=286&ruleId=60&slotId=

is available at Macy's in sizes from small to XL. It isn't plaid, it doesn't have ruffles on it. It looks good to my eye. Are you saying you don't like it or can't find anything like it?

Here's a real groovy pair of pants available up to size 14.

http://www1.macys.com/shop/product/...7&LinkType=#fn=sp=4&spc=286&ruleId=60&slotId=

Again, are you saying you don't like it or you cannot find it? It's at a major US retailor.

 

[LizzieMaine]

I think the root of the problem is that today's average woman doesn't even *consider* the possiblity of having clothing altered or made to measure: the thing they feel they have to change is themselves, not the garments.

This is a major shift in perception from the ways of the Era -- most women as recently as fifty years ago knew how to sew, and were able to alter clothing to suit their needs. Or they'd go one beyond and make the clothing themselves, adjusting the pattern to their measurements. If you bought ready-to-wear, most neighborhoods had a local dressmaker who'd make the necessary alterations if the purchaser didn't feel up to it themselves, and also made custom-fit garments for purchasers who weren't satisfied with what they had in the stores. Better dress shops offered their own seamstress on the premises who did alterations before the garment was delivered to the purchaser. These days, the whole idea of a "dress shop" is passe -- you can still find gentlemen's tailor shops if you look, but the female equivalent just isn't there anymore except perhaps at the very highest price point. It's so much easier -- and more profitable -- to badger women into believing the clothing isn't the problem -- they themselves are.

The more we discuss this topic, the more I'm convinced: the real path to liberation for women from these bogus demands that modern culture forces on them begins with learning to sew. YOU are NOT the problem. YOUR CLOTHES are.

 

[J.W.]

Lizzie, I'm pretty sure you are absolutely right.

 

[Flicka]

I think the root of the problem is that today's average woman doesn't even *consider* the possiblity of having clothing altered or made to measure: the thing they feel they have to change is themselves, not the garments.

This is a major shift in perception from the ways of the Era -- most women as recently as fifty years ago knew how to sew, and were able to alter clothing to suit their needs. Or they'd go one beyond and make the clothing themselves, adjusting the pattern to their measurements. If you bought ready-to-wear, most neighborhoods had a local dressmaker who'd make the necessary alterations if the purchaser didn't feel up to it themselves, and also made custom-fit garments for purchasers who weren't satisfied with what they had in the stores. Better dress shops offered their own seamstress on the premises who did alterations before the garment was delivered to the purchaser. These days, the whole idea of a "dress shop" is passe -- you can still find gentlemen's tailor shops if you look, but the female equivalent just isn't there anymore except perhaps at the very highest price point. It's so much easier -- and more profitable -- to badger women into believing the clothing isn't the problem -- they themselves are.

The more we discuss this topic, the more I'm convinced: the real path to liberation for women from these bogus demands that modern culture forces on them begins with learning to sew. YOU are NOT the problem. YOUR CLOTHES are.

Hear, hear. Ask not what you can do for your clothes, but what your clothes can do for you.

Which is why I sew.

 

[AtomicEraTom]

My dad only ever has had two suits in my life and had them tailored, because of the very problem. He's 6' and about 200 lbs and is a body-builder, so he has big arms, broad shoulders, but a small waist.

I rather doubt that. Off the rack the fit is often quite bad. If tall men with broad shoulders would buy XXL they would hang liek a tent too. We would use made to measure or bespoke for difficult sizes. And we would need to pay the prize for it.