Putting it all together

[Baron Kurtz]

yes. what a strange question !

I just HAD to know!

(strangely i don't think i've ever seen a 30s/40s brit or euro collar-attached shirt; hence my interest when i saw that your one appeared to be collar-attached)

bk

 

[Orgetorix]

I just HAD to know!

(strangely i don't think i've ever seen a 30s/40s brit or euro collar-attached shirt; hence my interest when i saw that your one appeared to be collar-attached)

bk

Surely the Brits and Europeans weren't still wearing stiff collars on a day-to-day basis in the '40s?

 

[Marc Chevalier]

(strangely i don't think i've ever seen a 30s/40s brit or euro collar-attached shirt)

Back in the '80s, a vintage clothing store ("American Rag Cie.") in Los Angeles used to import lots of '30s menswear from Germany. Tons of dress shirts with long, pointy, attached collars. These shirts tended to have very long tails ... they almost looked like nightshirts, but the collars had removable celluloid or bone stays in them, a detail not found in nightshirts.


.

 

[Matt Deckard]

I have a european dress shirt... and those tails are crazy long. You have to tuck them in just right so it doesn't look all bunched up under your trousers. I'm gueeing the vintage european trousers were thick enough to cover the scads of material.

 

[Marc Chevalier]

An extra layer of warmth for "down under"? lol


I bought one of those shirts. The way it looked and felt ---all bunched up in my trousers-- was, well, ludicrous. I ended up cutting the tail shorter.


.

 

[Mr. Rover]

Back in the '80s, a vintage clothing store ("American Rag Cie.") in Los Angeles used to import lots of '30s menswear from Germany. Tons of dress shirts with long, pointy, attached collars. These shirts tended to have very long tails ... they almost looked like nightshirts, but the collars had removable celluloid or bone stays in them, a detail not found in nightshirts.


.

So vintage shirts did have collar stays? I was always under the impression that they didn't ever, so I always ask for shirts made with optional stays and never put any in.
The dress shirt maker here makes them with built in stays by default. This weekend, I decided to get a shirt made with a long, pointed collar and forgot to mention to not put stays in. Atleast I know I won't be totally off if he had them made with built-in stays. And I'll have a nice stiff collar...
Does anyone know if you can still use a collar bar with the plastic stays?

-Ray

 

[Marc Chevalier]

Vintage German shirts from the 1930s did have removable collar stays, yes. Vintage American shirts from the same era *sometimes* did. I even have a '30s tab collar shirt which has removable stays, albeit short ones.


You are not supposed to use collar bars and collar stays together. Leave the stays out, lightly starch the collar instead, and slip on the collar bar.


.

 

[Mr. Rover]

Ah...well, the collar I chose was actually supposed to be used with hidden buttons, but I asked them to make the same shape without the buttons.
The collar kind of resembles this one, which is a hidden button collar from my custom tailor. I asked them to make mine a tad longer, though. We'll see if they nailed it on Saturday (Sunday for you Western Hemisphereans). The collar looked like it came straight out of a 30's Arrow shirt ad.
I got it made in white broadcloth with regular 2-button barrel cuff.

If the collar is satisfactory, I'll get one made with french cuffs, too.
I also spotted that they had a club collar available, too...maybe a striped shirt with a white cuff and collar for that?
Maybe I'll get one of those made, too. They're not too bad at 900NT a pop (about $27USD).

 

[benstephens]

A lot of shirts had attached collars in England in the 1930s, In the Army and Navy stores catalogue 1938, they offer both, I think the collar attached being more expensive. I will scan the page latter for people to look at.

Kindest Regards

Ben

 

[herringbonekid]

I just HAD to know!

(strangely i don't think i've ever seen a 30s/40s brit or euro collar-attached shirt; hence my interest when i saw that your one appeared to be collar-attached)

bk

all of my 40s euro shirts have attached collars.

 

[herringbonekid]

Now that is a fantastic style, I really like the pullover, I take it is machine stitched?

thanks. yes, CC41 tag. scottish made.

 

[herringbonekid]

Back in the '80s, a vintage clothing store ("American Rag Cie.") in Los Angeles used to import lots of '30s menswear from Germany. Tons of dress shirts with long, pointy, attached collars. These shirts tended to have very long tails ... they almost looked like nightshirts, but the collars had removable celluloid or bone stays in them, a detail not found in nightshirts..

Marc, that is exactly the type of 40s shirts i have. and the one shown on the previous page is of this type. i take the stays out so the collars are softer. they're mainly german but some could be swiss too.

 

[benstephens]

I have a very similar French shirt. I find the English shirts have slightly more rounded corners to the points. Do your foreign shirts have very thin yet stiff collars?

Ben

 

[herringbonekid]

do you mean thin points or material ?
no, the collars aren't stiff.

here are some more of the german 40s type......

 

[benstephens]

Thankyou for the pictures, My subject of interest today is collars!

I meant material, my French one is very thin, Here is a picture of my French shirt and an English one next to it. The English one is short sleeved, and the 'points' are more rounded to give a more sporty look.

Ben

(I have a feeling we may be going slightly fftopic: here, I have posted on the spread collar thread!)

 

[herringbonekid]

the fabric weight varies from papery thin to quite heavy !
as you can see from my photo above, the point width isn't too consistent either. i guess every manufacturer had their style. also the exact year is anyone's guess.


( i have the spearmint colour CC41 st.michael brother of your shirt )

 

[benstephens]

I have a light green (Spearmint?) CC41, but made by Kencella, Long sleeved though. I think that was a popular colour.

I think the St M shirts are nice fits. I really like the middle one of the three you posted.

Ben

 

[Marc Chevalier]

The '30s German shirts have the longest and pointiest attached collars I've ever seen, period. That said, I've run into some '30s British detachable collars that are equally pointy. (www.ebay.co.uk has a few right now.)


The American collars --both detachable and attached-- were shorter and less narrow at the points. Two examples are below. (Most of you have already seen these pics, but they might be new for Ben. Thanks for your patience!)

Compare those to the collar on the Swiss shirt below:

 

[Baron Kurtz]

'nuvva one that's appeared before. WWII era USA:

bk

 

[benstephens]

Thankyou ever so much Marc, It is interesting to see how collar shapes differed from country to country. That Swiss collar certainly has a point on it!

BK, Thankyou, that shirt looks to have less of a curve in the collar?

Cheers

Ben