ITALIAN VS. AMERICAN VINTAGE HATS

• Apr 19, 2006

• #1

Visigoth

A-List Customer

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458

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Rome

Hi all,

I was raised on the Borsalino myth, and I'm wondering if any of you consider certain vintage American hats on a par with, or even better than, the vintage Borsalino. The best of Dobbs, Cavanaugh, Knox... were they at least as good as the Italian hat, or always a touch inferior in quality?

 

• Apr 19, 2006

• #2

jamespowers

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Visigoth said:

I was raised on the Borsalino myth, and I'm wondering if any of you consider certain vintage American hats on a par with, or even better than, the vintage Borsalino. The best of Dobbs, Cavanagh, Knox... were they at least as good as the Italian hat, or always a touch inferior in quality?

Click to expand...

You have to compare apple to apples but sure there are vintage American hats that are just as good as the vintage Borsalinos. You named three of them already but Dunlap, Stetson, Mallory and even Lee had hat models that were just as good---some even bettter. Just as today, Borsalino is about the same thing you can get here off the rack. Though that is not saying much for the modern Borsalinos.

Regards,

J

 

• Apr 20, 2006

• #3

besdor

Vendor/Sponsor

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up north

Vintage hats in general were better than the modern ones . That goes for any company out there ,whether Italian or American . I have some hats that were made by a company called Goodwear Hat Co from Atlanta Ga . They were made in the late 1960's . Even they are better than a modern Borsalino .
Probably the finest vintage hat I've ever seen was a pure beaver hat made special by Borsalino for their 100 anniversary in 1957 . the owner took the hat and crushed it (not rolled) in front of me . Two seconds later , he poped it out and there wasn't a crease in the hat . It was beautiful . I offered him 500.00 for the hat and he turned in down . That was ten years ago .



Steven
www.bencrafthats.com

 

• Apr 20, 2006

• #4

MattC

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San Francisco and New York City

The finest Cavanaghs

are right up there. But they were trying for different things. Cavanagh hats were incredibly dense and incredibly smooth. But they used the denseness to create a firm hat, with unwavering lines. Borsalino--while it made just about every possible style--typically strove for softness in its best hats, and embraced a wavy line as part of the look. The top of either line, circa 1950--I'll take em both.

 

• Apr 20, 2006

• #5

Aerol

A-List Customer

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303

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Chicago, IL

Borso hand

Matt, you make an excellent point. Every Borso I've seen has been wonderfully soft. I'm sure there's no magic, it's just their style, just as a cowboy hat (Stetson, Resistol, etc.) would be stiffer.

When comparing hats, whether contemporary, classic, or contemporary-to-classic, it's important to keep the hatters' styles in mind. You can't compare apple to oranges.

 

• Apr 20, 2006

• #6

Visigoth

A-List Customer

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458

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Rome

Interesting -- the Borsalino I've fallen in love with (and I just won another very similar one on ebay) is in fact quite formed, if not rigid. The lines definitely don't change. This is a sixties/seventies style -- the Diamante II, and the Peluchi. I have some Knox and Dobbs hats on their way; I'm interested in seeing how they compare. Is Cavanaugh in fact a step above these?

 

• Apr 20, 2006

• #7

jamespowers

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Near the World's Largest Outdoor Insane Asylum

Visigoth said:

Interesting -- the Borsalino I've fallen in love with (and I just won another very similar one on ebay) is in fact quite formed, if not rigid. The lines definitely don't change. This is a sixties/seventies style -- the Diamante II, and the Peluchi. I have some Knox and Dobbs hats on their way; I'm interested in seeing how they compare. Is Cavanaugh in fact a step above these?

Click to expand...

Cavanagh, Knox, Dobbs and Dunlap were all part of the same company by the 1930s if I remember correctly. They are all higher end hat companies. The difference is in the model and grade of the hat in question. Model to model they are equally good. Original price tags will tell you what kind of quality you are dealing with. The top hats were going for $100 each. The lowest quality vintage hats were in the $5-7.50 range. In between these you can find many a fine hat by todays off the rack standards.

Regards,

J

 

• Apr 21, 2006

• #8

Solid Citizen

Practically Family

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922

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Maryland

Vintage vs. New

I have both vintage Stetson's & Borsalino's like them alll

SC

 

• Apr 21, 2006

• #9

M

Michael Mallory

One of the Regulars

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283

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Glendale, California

I can't speak to vintage, and I can't speak to Borsalino, but I have a recent (less than ten years old) Barbisio which is vastly superior than the majority of American hats of a similar age. Barbisios and Cervos are as good or better than Borsalinos (though I do believe there is some cross pollenation involved).

 

• Apr 22, 2006

• #10

MattC

A-List Customer

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424

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San Francisco and New York City

Have to disagree

On modern Cervos. I had one that shrunk down a size in a couple of years (and not much wearing in the rain). Stretching it so distorted the hat it was unwearable.

 

• Apr 22, 2006

• #11

besdor

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up north

Cerco/Barbisio

Having delt with Cervo a few times all I can say is let the buyer beware . The hats look nice ,but are not going to hold up to long term wear . They will definately shrink . The factory uses bodies that are too small .


Steven
www.bencrafthats.com
lol

 

• Nov 15, 2010

• #12

150719541

One Too Many

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1,288

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San Luis Potosi, SLP. Mexico

I like both, vintage are vintage, Borsas and stetson have been a great quality every time.

 

• Nov 15, 2010

• #13

Aureliano

I'll Lock Up

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4,753

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Macondo.

besdor said:

Having delt with Cervo a few times all I can say is let the buyer beware . The hats look nice ,but are not going to hold up to long term wear . They will definately shrink . The factory uses bodies that are too small .




Steven
www.bencrafthats.com
lol

Click to expand...

I have two cervo from the 80's (I think, maybe 70's) and they still look amazing. Maybe that's an issue with modern ones. Steven, I still have to bring them to your shop. Maybe this sunday. Will confirm.