Just gotta rant...vintage sellers who drive me nuts!

Ok, so recently there was this really sweet 1930's outfit up for bid on a "certain" auction site...(don't know if I am allowed to name names here!) Anyway, I lost out, and of course, was totally okay with that because I always tell myself it has gone to someone else who loved it more...and perhaps even one of you lovely ladies on here!

Soooo....flash forward to a matter of days later - and lo and behold, there is the outfit, on another site, and being sold for double the price!!!! :rage:

Now I know that many people (including myself) find clothes that don't quite fit, and due to a no refund policy, wind up selling them ourselves, but in this case I am pretty convinced that this seller is purely a seller out to make a profit.

This isn't the first time I have seen this happen - I have noticed it on other vintage clothing that I didn't bid on, but recalled them instantly when I saw them on another site up for sale. There was one incident where I saw this dress and bolero set sell for about $75 and then on another site was being sold for $250!!!

Am I the only one who gets her knickers in a knot about this?? I just feel that a true seller who goes to a lot of trouble to hunt estate sales, garage sales, etc, to bring merchandise to the public who may not have the time or opportunity deserves to receive profit from their finds...that to me is a true business. But buying from one site that is already accessible to the public only to turn around and sell on another site to make money is, in my humble opinion, not worthy of a profit or a real seller status.

What do you ladies think???

I completely agree. It's the same as with those people who buy loads of gig tickets only so they can sell them on at a more expensive price.

I bought a hat the other day and someone else was bidding on it. I checked their profile thing and they had bought loads and loads of hats. I soon worked out they were bidding on them to get cheap hats to sell them on at a more expensive price. I outbid them woo! Only cost me £1.29 and I think only because I bid right at the last minute before they could do anything.

The annoying thing is there seems to be nothing anyone can do to stop this happening.

Is it the tact of them not waiting a 'grace period' for them to resell something, or is it that they bought it to sell?

Thats how sellers get inventory. Thats how I get inventory. You cant get mad at them for reselling something they bought. They can do what they wish with it. It can be annoying, sure, but they did buy it.

LD

I don't think that's entirely fair miss Scarlet, I buy a lot of vintage and usually I'll buy a hat if I see it going cheap for a friend or because noone else has bid. I also think that we'd be lying if we said we'd not bought something at one time or another to make a profit!

I'm not a trader but if I buy something cheap that I know is worth more I'd hopefully make a bit of money to maybe put towards another bit of vintage or something for my son etc...

Although I don't understand why some people charge ridiculous amounts of money for things, I do understand buying things to resell. In reality there's a lot of people who because of location can't scout at estate sales, flea markets, etc, and instead purchase things on auction sites (me included). And if you think about it the sellers even at flea markets, antique stores, and the like are doing the same but with a smaller profit margin. Making even close to a living doing something like this is difficult and time consuming, especially in view of the economy and that vintage isn't really a necessity. So even though they've got a $250 price tag on it, it may sit in stock for months and months, and they could be barely making a living, so it may really not be greed after all. [huh] There is still vintage out there to be found that's "hidden", but with the popularity, from a sellers point of view, it's getting really difficult to find product at a decent rate to make even close to a profit after taking into consideration time spent going to places, gas spent, time photographing and touching up pictures, listing, paying fees from ebay or whatever site, paying fees from whatever credit card accepting method you take, etc, on top of what you paid for the product in the first place. But I do think it's important to keep prices somewhat affordable. Like I mentioned before, it does no good to do all that work and then sit on something for months (or years) because of a high price. Me, I'd rather find something cheap and then feel like both the buyer and I got a good deal... but maybe that's why I've moved away from selling vintage clothing... it was getting too expensive.

Well said, Lauren. After all, sellers *do* sell to "just make a profit." That's why they're sellers.

As for auction buying (online or otherwise), I finally learned myself a little lesson. I used to get mad when I'd be trying to get a bargain, and some *dealer* would outbid me.

I'd think, well sure... they have the money to spend. Then it occurred to me... but if I outbid them by just one bid, I'm paying a tiny percent over "wholesale." In any other venue I'd be thrilled with that kind of cost! So now, if I see I'm bidding against a dealer and it's something I really, really want, I bid until I get it. A dealer is going to stop at roughly half of what they think they can re-sell it for. And that still even makes it something of a nice little investment for me, too.

Now if it's something I just want to see if I can get for a bargain, there's really no harm done if I miss out on it. There's always another goodie to bid on and I considered I just saved myself the cash for it!

And as a seller, it can be tricky to price things. I'm sure we all have things that are overpriced and underpriced. Sometimes you will happily buy from us and get a bargain, and other times you'll keep shopping elsewhere. Them's the breaks.

What disturbs me more are certain sellers on certain auction sites who sell items, use pretty models and pretty photography and then have super-elevated starting prices or outrageous BIN's. The items for the most part aren't to my eye anything of particular rarity or exceptional quality or designer pieces.

Wire9Vintage said:

Then it occurred to me... but if I outbid them by just one bid, I'm paying a tiny percent over "wholesale." In any other venue I'd be thrilled with that kind of cost! So now, if I see I'm bidding against a dealer and it's something I really, really want, I bid until I get it. A dealer is going to stop at roughly half of what they think they can re-sell it for. And that still even makes it something of a nice little investment for me, too.

Now if it's something I just want to see if I can get for a bargain, there's really no harm done if I miss out on it. There's always another goodie to bid on and I considered I just saved myself the cash for it!

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That is a brilliant bit of advice!

bunnyb.gal said:

What disturbs me more are certain sellers on certain auction sites who sell items, use pretty models and pretty photography and then have super-elevated starting prices or outrageous BIN's. The items for the most part aren't to my eye anything of particular rarity or exceptional quality or designer pieces.

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Let the buyer beware...it's your task as a consumer to figure out if the price being charged is correct for your needs. It's the seller's job to make as much money as they can. Free market and all that. If the items don't get purchased at the inflated prices, the seller will lower the price. No need to be disturbed.

I personally really appreciate it when a seller goes to the effort of making their item look really nice and appealing. I rarely buy clothes online because I don't like the unknown factors, and I only make that rare purchase when the item is presented well and I'm confident that I will like it. And I'm always willing to pay more for those items - I recognize that I'm paying for their time and effort, not just for the item. And if the item is still priced higher than I'm willing to pay, I save one of the cute pictures and move on.

Kitty_Sheridan said:

I don't think that's entirely fair miss Scarlet, I buy a lot of vintage and usually I'll buy a hat if I see it going cheap for a friend or because noone else has bid. I also think that we'd be lying if we said we'd not bought something at one time or another to make a profit!

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I completely understand and wouldn't normally comment on it, but this buyer had bought over 200 hats (i got bored after some number of pages)...so I did think that can't be just for friends or themselves.

I can't blame sellers because it's all business. I suppose it's just the rip off price they re-sell it at that annoys people. Only because to us it's precious and means something, to them it's a living/extra money making. It's the way the world goes round I guess [huh]

This reminds me of what economist Walter Williams said to his wife when she complained about prices: "What kind of person pays unreasonable prices?"

I know this is the Fedora Lounge, but has anyone ever had an emergency need for a hat?

Snookie said:

Let the buyer beware...it's your task as a consumer to figure out if the price being charged is correct for your needs. It's the seller's job to make as much money as they can. Free market and all that. If the items don't get purchased at the inflated prices, the seller will lower the price. No need to be disturbed.

I personally really appreciate it when a seller goes to the effort of making their item look really nice and appealing. I rarely buy clothes online because I don't like the unknown factors, and I only make that rare purchase when the item is presented well and I'm confident that I will like it. And I'm always willing to pay more for those items - I recognize that I'm paying for their time and effort, not just for the item. And if the item is still priced higher than I'm willing to pay, I save one of the cute pictures and move on.

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Agreed.

No doubt, a lot of time and effort goes into a high-quality listing: scouting estate sales (most of which are probably fruitless), cleaning up the item, taking good, taking clear photographs, writing a helpful description, shipping the item--how many hours' work is involved in bringing just one item to market? Take the markup, subtract gas money, cleaning supplies, and a write-down for equipment, divide by hours spent, and you have their hourly wage. And as others have mentioned, sellers take the risk that the item isn't going to sell at all.

As for re-selling something that was underpriced--how many people tell sellers that they really ought to be charging more for their goods?

Snookie said:

Let the buyer beware...it's your task as a consumer to figure out if the price being charged is correct for your needs. It's the seller's job to make as much money as they can. Free market and all that. If the items don't get purchased at the inflated prices, the seller will lower the price. No need to be disturbed.

I personally really appreciate it when a seller goes to the effort of making their item look really nice and appealing. I rarely buy clothes online because I don't like the unknown factors, and I only make that rare purchase when the item is presented well and I'm confident that I will like it. And I'm always willing to pay more for those items - I recognize that I'm paying for their time and effort, not just for the item. And if the item is still priced higher than I'm willing to pay, I save one of the cute pictures and move on.

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I definitely see your point, as long as the markups seem to be within reason. It is one or two sellers on said auction site to whom I am referring, which seem to me beyond the pale. Some people will pay those over-the-odds prices, and to my mind, ultimately, that may affect all of us to some degree, if it catches on. I'm thinking about Swirls, just as an example, the price of which seems to have gone stratospheric.

I like a nice presentation as well, but again, for me, it's a question of degree. I wouldn't buy a £100 gift for someone, and pay £100 for the wrapping!

From the point of view of the seller, I'm curious to know how much money is saved on average by selling over the Internet, as opposed to from a bricks and mortar shop.

Paisley said:

How many people tell sellers that they really ought to be charging more for their goods?

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Tooting my own horn here, but I recently had a custom piece done for me on Etsy, and I was so pleased with the photos she sent for my approval that I told her to up the price. The original price quoted was far too low for a custom piece of good quality. It would have barely covered the cost of materials. The seller was very grateful - she told me that after she started working on it she realized she had undercharged, but didn't want to go back on her original quote.

I like a good deal, but I truly believe you get what you pay for. And I think it's important to pay people what they're worth.

In the case of overpriced Swirl dresses, those are super-popular now, right? Supply and demand states that the prices will rise. In that case, you're not only paying for the dress and the seller's work, but also to be on the "cutting edge" of vintage fashion. Five years from now everyone will realize they overpaid, but right now it's a must-have item in limited supply, so the prices are high. In the late 90's my husband spent a fortune on over-priced gabardine jackets, but boy he enjoyed wearing them. But he'll never be able to make his money back, not even close.

I get the frustration that many ladies feel with the high prices, but I know how hard many sellers work, how passionate they are about their product, and how little money they really make. I would love to do that job, but I wouldn't be able to make enough money to make ends meet, so I keep going to my 9-5. So I have a lot of respect for those who work hard to get the items out there.

Paisley said:

No doubt, a lot of time and effort goes into a high-quality listing: scouting estate sales (most of which are probably fruitless), cleaning up the item, taking good, taking clear photographs, writing a helpful description, shipping the item--how many hours' work is involved in bringing just one item to market? Take the markup, subtract gas money, cleaning supplies, and a write-down for equipment, divide by hours spent, and you have their hourly wage. And as others have mentioned, sellers take the risk that the item isn't going to sell at all.

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This is a great point. Part of my job (nothing to do with vintage or Ebay, for the record!) involves photographing items and I know how time-consuming it can be to get everything just right. And the photos I take don't look anywhere near as good as the sort that are being referred to in this thread!

As for the original topic, I have seen this sort of thing happen myself. As frustrating as it is, I just take it as one of those inevitabilities of Ebay/online buying and selling.

Snookie said:

In the case of overpriced Swirl dresses, those are super-popular now, right? Supply and demand states that the prices will rise. In that case, you're not only paying for the dress and the seller's work, but also to be on the "cutting edge" of vintage fashion.

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That is exactly it! If you think someone is overcharging for an item, don't pay that price. If everyone is of the same opinion, the price will be forced back down.

On the other hand, why should a handmade, one of a kind vintage dress be cheaper than a mass-produced modern dress from a mass-market shop? I think some people were so used to getting knockdown bargains before vintage was fashionable that they aren't seeing that in fact a higher price is the right price to be paying for that article.

Puzzicato said:

On the other hand, why should a handmade, one of a kind vintage dress be cheaper than a mass-produced modern dress from a mass-market shop?

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I run into this all the time, and have barked about it (as some of the other sewing ladies have too, who's with me! ). Its simply that a lot of people because of growing up on cheaply made RTW for generations, don't know what actually goes into having a hand made garment. The notion of handmade is simply that its not disposable, its something to keep forever. Most people don't want to do that with clothing, not when habit tells us that we need to change looks ever quarter.

So when a seller is charging $250 for a dress that has more details than anything you will ever find RTW fit to YOUR measurements that can last you a life time, its an investment, not a splurge.

Im done ranting, thank you for your time

LD

I should maybe not post in this thread but I shall:
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I think a lesson in the antiques and collectibles business should be stated:

Once upon a time in the antiques world before online selling there were certain rules if you may of how to approach a dealer and how a dealer conducted their business:
1. Most dealers offered other dealers a standard 20% off of the price of their inventory.
2. Most dealers offered customers a 10% discount with repeat customers possibly 20%, possibly holding special items for them depending on how special this customer was and/or sending Christmas cards or adding little gifts.
( I still try to conduct my business this way as it is how I was taught it.)

Now with the internet everyone is a dealer. This is where the issues and selling has got all murky.

There are all kinds of dealers for all kinds of reasons:
I will throw out some food for thought off the top of my head:

It truly does just like other things in the real world have to do with location, location, location.

Used to be different parts of the country and of course world had different items. People traveled and picked up these items.
Ohio river area for pottery ex.

Economy and location makes it extremely varied on what one can pick up still.
Sellers from big cities have much more competition and such to find good inventory.
It is summertime and generally dealers this time of year are picking up stock for the Christmas season online and in real world.
I see vintage clothing as a dealer no different at all than my other inventory.
I feel I am sharing my treasures I have picked up with others. To me things are just getting older.
Repros in everything are definitely making it harder for the dealer but I also feel education of the young will really revitalize the appreciation for the real deal and history of these wonderful items.
I am most amazed that anything can last 100 years or even 50. Amazing to me and I love the sheer vibe of these things. How much should they cost is so across the board.
Every single day we lose more and more things. So many factors go into business and even the cost of selling online varies by place to place online. One has to take into account overhead such as storage cost, etc. to paying Uncle Sam.
I could go on an on about this but definitely agree with Lauren especially.

LadyDay. I always think of the banana darts I put into a dress years ago when I see vintage clothing. I truly see some of these items as Art.
Just let someone try to do this and see how much the charges should be. lol

Snookie said:

Tooting my own horn here, but I recently had a custom piece done for me on Etsy, and I was so pleased with the photos she sent for my approval that I told her to up the price. The original price quoted was far too low for a custom piece of good quality. It would have barely covered the cost of materials. The seller was very grateful - she told me that after she started working on it she realized she had undercharged, but didn't want to go back on her original quote.

I like a good deal, but I truly believe you get what you pay for. And I think it's important to pay people what they're worth.

In the case of overpriced Swirl dresses, those are super-popular now, right? Supply and demand states that the prices will rise. In that case, you're not only paying for the dress and the seller's work, but also to be on the "cutting edge" of vintage fashion. Five years from now everyone will realize they overpaid, but right now it's a must-have item in limited supply, so the prices are high. In the late 90's my husband spent a fortune on over-priced gabardine jackets, but boy he enjoyed wearing them. But he'll never be able to make his money back, not even close.

I get the frustration that many ladies feel with the high prices, but I know how hard many sellers work, how passionate they are about their product, and how little money they really make. I would love to do that job, but I wouldn't be able to make enough money to make ends meet, so I keep going to my 9-5. So I have a lot of respect for those who work hard to get the items out there.

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Bravo! :eusa_clap