The 80s, myth and reality?

Alice Blue · Jan 25, 2021

I graduated from high school in 1981, so the eighties were my salad days. And while I do have some fond memories, I also remember that young people (including me) were very anxious about nuclear war, and AIDS was utterly new and frightening since in those days it was a death sentence.

AIDS wiped out an entire generation of people, gifted creative people at the top of their fields as well as ordinary people, and we seem to lapse into collective amnesia until someone reminds us.

MikeKardec · Jan 25, 2021

Trenchfriend said:
When I hear german people, which were teens back then, talking about the 80s, I can always hear two main, but contrasting opinions, coming out.
The ones say, 80s were fun. The others, which seem to be majority, say, that in the (german) 80s was much more boring stuff, than you think, today.

The interesting point is, that many people say, in 80s-Germany, there was a huge discrepancy between "Adult Germany" and "Young Germany". They say, the underground clubbing scene and the adult world were light years away from each other and there was nothing really between.

I was in Germany, West Germany, at the end of the 1980s. I barely knew what was going on but what I could see was very exciting. The wall had yet to fall but individuals in the West were already planning land grabs in the East. I sat one night with a group of young businessmen who were sure they could find a way to scoop up the old Imperial Japanese embassy compound and develop it. The company I worked for was ready to pour across the border and sell books to everyone in the East. East Germans were coming West by hook or by crook and practicing what they thought were Western business techniques, making impossible demands and, when they didn't get their way, doubling down. This was particularly interesting because the wife of the head guy that I worked with ran a modeling agency. The new East German models were impossible to get along with, complete prima donnas, in her opinion. Every morning the edges of the Autobahn were littered with Trabants, people coming west to spend their meager savings on an aging Mercedes or BMW. Used car lots in Hamburg were going out of business because they couldn't restock from anywhere in Europe. An accurate vision? It was just a month or so out of an entire decade but, as you can tell, it got my attention. The funny thing was, when I returned a few years ago none of the plaques or pamphlets on reunification mention this era. Their timelines almost suggest it didn't happen but we scrubbed a trip to Berlin because we were afraid that 1953 might happen all over again and we'd be trapped. It was crazy. And it was great ... at least in the West. A lot of hope and ambition in the air.

Harp · Jan 25, 2021

LizzieMaine said:
Immerse yourself in the media of 1941, The people of the time knew that their world was a mess, and that the time and the nation they were living in was far from perfect. There was an optimism....

Saigon fell April 30, 1975 and the Soviet Union collapsed Christmas Day, 1991; historical bookends
for the decade topic of this thread. Salient factual analysis faults Southeast Asian conventional tactics
and strategy, while the USSR collapsed prostrate from economic exhaustion. Philosophy is cold blood writ,
and a base philosophy antithetical to innate human nature is ultimately subject to reality; whether such
application is martial or economic, truth is no less real for tragic sake.

The United States Gross Domestic Product 1991 of $4,862 billion bested Soviet $2,500 billion GDP tally
with USA per capita twice that of Russia standard sum.

The Bear stirs restless and the Dragon slithers. American complacency has been shaken by palace storm.
Viral contagion stalks the globe. There is optimism, of course, such sentiment births hope and light
even surrounded by darkness. But regardless of decade, peel back an onion's skin at any time,
and find an onion.... Twas ever, twill ever be.

LizzieMaine · Jan 25, 2021

Alice Blue said:
I graduated from high school in 1981, so the eighties were my salad days. And while I do have some fond memories, I also remember that young people (including me) were very anxious about nuclear war, and AIDS was utterly new and frightening since in those days it was a death sentence.

AIDS wiped out an entire generation of people, gifted creative people at the top of their fields as well as ordinary people, and we seem to lapse into collective amnesia until someone reminds us.

I remember very clearly the day the "I have signed legislation to outlaw Russia forever, we begin bombing in five minutes" incident came across the UPI wire, and the sense of complete outrage and helplessness I felt that we lived in a world where anyone in a position of great responsibility would think that was a joking matter. And the AIDS jokes -- which were everywhere then among people, especially so-called "Christian" people, smug in their sense that it only affected The Other -- were even worse.

Harp · Jan 25, 2021

LizzieMaine said:
I remember very clearly the day the "I have signed legislation to outlaw Russia forever, we begin bombing in five minutes" incident came across the UPI wire, and the sense of complete outrage and helplessness I felt that we lived in a world where anyone in a position of great responsibility would think that was a joking matter. And the AIDS jokes -- which were everywhere then among people, especially so-called "Christian" people.

Excellent points. I distinctly recall that slip foolishness and was equally disappointed but believed
UPI should have handled that particular package more carefully.
AIDS jokes were and are disgusting whatever the source. The ecumenical side of ribaldry whether
Rabelais or rabble is truly low brow humor.

Tiki Tom · Jan 25, 2021

Ah, the eighties! How I miss the cold war.
Started to write a loooong post about what I was doing in the eighties, but ---lucky for you--- I thought better of it. It sounded like an old man’s made-up BS.
Always thought I hated the eighties until I started writing about it. The bad stuff is forgotten and the good stuff remains.
Maybe one day over a whiskey.

Alice Blue · Jan 25, 2021

The Preppy Handbook came out in 1980, and Ralph Lauren popularized traditional clothing at about the same time. I actually went to prep school (as a day student) so I read The Preppy Handbook as it was intended, as affectionate satire rather than a sartorial guide.

I found the resulting explosion of faux ”preppy” style as part of popular culture to be quite disorienting at the time. On the one hand the Ralph Lauren ads with fresh-faced young aristocrats were selling a fantasy, but on the other hand a renewed appreciation for natural fibers after the slick, smelly polyester of the 1970s seemed like a good idea.

Seb Lucas · Jan 25, 2021

Alice Blue said:
The Preppy Handbook came out in 1980, and Ralph Lauren popularized traditional clothing at about the same time. I actually went to prep school (as a day student) so I read The Preppy Handbook as it was intended, as affectionate satire rather than a sartorial guide.

I found the resulting explosion of faux ”preppy” style as part of popular culture to be quite disorienting at the time. On the one hand the Ralph Lauren ads with fresh-faced young aristocrats were selling a fantasy, but on the other hand a renewed appreciation for natural fibers after the slick, smelly polyester of the 1970s seemed like a good idea.

Lauren's phoney WASP traditional aesthetic (Fran Lebowitz is hilarious on this) never quite took off here but we did absorb some of the preppy style by osmosis without knowing what it all meant. There were Sloan Rangers in Britain and we borrowed a little from that look too. It was nice to move away from polyester. Interesting that we should return to polyester with a vengeance these last 20 years, with the ubiquitous "adventure wear".

Woodtroll · Jan 25, 2021

Alice Blue said:
AIDS wiped out an entire generation of people, gifted creative people at the top of their fields as well as ordinary people, and we seem to lapse into collective amnesia until someone reminds us.

I'm really puzzled by this statement. Which generation, in which country, was "entirely wiped out by AIDS"? Perhaps you just mis-spoke, or are speaking figuratively in a sense I'm not catching?

I'm about the same age as you are, and I agree that folks growing up in the 70s and 80s had plenty of scary stuff to worry about, but we fortunately also had a lot of good things going our way, too.

Edward · Jan 26, 2021

LizzieMaine said:
I remember very clearly the day the "I have signed legislation to outlaw Russia forever, we begin bombing in five minutes" incident came across the UPI wire, and the sense of complete outrage and helplessness I felt that we lived in a world where anyone in a position of great responsibility would think that was a joking matter. And the AIDS jokes -- which were everywhere then among people, especially so-called "Christian" people, smug in their sense that it only affected The Other -- were even worse.

In more recent times, comedian Steve Coogan did a character piece where he distinguished "good AIDS" and "bad AIDS", based on the character's moral judgement on how the condition was contracted. A clever observation indeed on a certain mindset, with wider application to the old deserving and undeserving categorisation so often used for convenience as long as humanity has been around.

Trenchfriend · Jan 26, 2021

Enjoy my Mix-CD:

Propaganda - Duel
T'Pau - Heart and soul
Feargal Sharkey - A good heart
Centerfold - Dictator
Spandau Ballet - True
Talking Heads - And she was
Billy Ocean - When the going gets though
China Crisis - Wishful thinking
China Crisis - Black man ray
Kool And The Gang - Everbody's dancin
MC Miker G & DJ Sven - Holiday rap
China Crisis - Christian
Baltimora - Tarzan boy
Fun Fun - Happy station
The Fim - Star trekkin'
Jermaine Stewart - We don't have to take our clothes off.
Jaki Graham & David Grant - Mated

tempestbella · Jan 27, 2021

I left school in 1981. My 80s was lots of travelling to gigs , parties and Rockabilly ! id been a Teddy girl since 9years old , but suddenly we had a new strand of 50s music with Charley Records and a couple of other labels buying out surplus records recorded by “ minor” or unknown from Sun Label in Memphis..
it had started in 70s but early 80s we put first younger generation energy into it with bands like Restless, Polecats etc . There was the Stray Cats from America too but in UK every town and city had clubs going.
We got to see these artists as well when promoters found them and brought them over . Best example is Joe Clay he would of been in his teens when he recorded “Ducktails “ with friends. For twenty years he drove school bus till an Englishman asked him to tour UK and Europe performing the songs ! It blew their minds to have 1000s of teenagers singing back the words after so long!
( more details in my book if I ever finish)
It was also very easy whether original clothing from the 1940s and 50s very cheap. Mid 80s I remember friends flying crates and containers full of stuff in from America. We likes the more authentic look . Maybe one hidden tattoo on ladies ( I still have none) dressed up every time we went out . Jeans and trousers were for day wear!
We had the miners strike and being in Yorkshire I saw first hand how it effected communities. We even got stopped travelling to club’s by the police trying to stop the picket duties!
Ex mining Communities are still divided by it.
I moved to London by default in 89 but it was a very different one to now. More sky showing , less homeless, dirt and violence.
I had an educational and fun 1980s

Edward · Jan 27, 2021

tempestbella said:
I left school in 1981. My 80s was lots of travelling to gigs , parties and Rockabilly ! id been a Teddy girl since 9years old , but suddenly we had a new strand of 50s music with Charley Records and a couple of other labels buying out surplus records recorded by “ minor” or unknown from Sun Label in Memphis..
it had started in 70s but early 80s we put first younger generation energy into it with bands like Restless, Polecats etc . There was the Stray Cats from America too but in UK every town and city had clubs going.
We got to see these artists as well when promoters found them and brought them over . Best example is Joe Clay he would of been in his teens when he recorded “Ducktails “ with friends. For twenty years he drove school bus till an Englishman asked him to tour UK and Europe performing the songs ! It blew their minds to have 1000s of teenagers singing back the words after so long!
( more details in my book if I ever finish)
It was also very easy whether original clothing from the 1940s and 50s very cheap. Mid 80s I remember friends flying crates and containers full of stuff in from America. We likes the more authentic look . Maybe one hidden tattoo on ladies ( I still have none) dressed up every time we went out . Jeans and trousers were for day wear!
We had the miners strike and being in Yorkshire I saw first hand how it effected communities. We even got stopped travelling to club’s by the police trying to stop the picket duties!
Ex mining Communities are still divided by it.
I moved to London by default in 89 but it was a very different one to now. More sky showing , less homeless, dirt and violence.
I had an educational and fun 1980s

I visited London for the first time on a school trip in 1985; I remember being driven up the Mile End Road then - certainly wasn't what it is now in terms of redevelopment! We stayed in the Barbican Hotel on Baker Street - and I got dyssentry.

I moved here ten years after you did; I think I caught the tail end of Camden being a great place for music and hanging out, that all seemed to die when they redeveloped the markets after the fires. Not been up there in a few years now. I hear the Boston Arms in Tufnell Park is still as it was, thougth I've never been (supposedly it's also a bit cliquely?). Still love the Ace, wish it was closer by.

Hopefully post-pandemic we'll get back to the Rhythm Riot, that was always great. Last one we did, which I think was 2016 maybe was the first they had no old-school performers at, I guess they're mostly gone or retired now... My first one in 2012, Beverley Guitar Watkins played, she was great. Like somebody's rock and roll nana possesed by the spirit of Hendrix at his wildest in parts.... and really sweet at the signing table. The rockabilly crowd (for the most part.... one or two dark sides there...) were always good fun... by the 201s most of the good original clothing was gone, but it seems to be a crowd who aren't as snobbish about repro as some vintage cliques, so much easier to get nice stuff made now... Hopnig some year to make it to Atomic as well. Ironically we'd booked a caravan and planned it all to take the dog this year, but then Covid19 hit and everything got cancelled....

tempestbella · Jan 27, 2021

Edward said:
I visited London for the first time on a school trip in 1985; I remember being driven up the Mile End Road then - certainly wasn't what it is now in terms of redevelopment! We stayed in the Barbican Hotel on Baker Street - and I got dyssentry.

I moved here ten years after you did; I think I caught the tail end of Camden being a great place for music and hanging out, that all seemed to die when they redeveloped the markets after the fires. Not been up there in a few years now. I hear the Boston Arms in Tufnell Park is still as it was, thougth I've never been (supposedly it's also a bit cliquely?). Still love the Ace, wish it was closer by.

Hopefully post-pandemic we'll get back to the Rhythm Riot, that was always great. Last one we did, which I think was 2016 maybe was the first they had no old-school performers at, I guess they're mostly gone or retired now... My first one in 2012, Beverley Guitar Watkins played, she was great. Like somebody's rock and roll nana possesed by the spirit of Hendrix at his wildest in parts.... and really sweet at the signing table. The rockabilly crowd (for the most part.... one or two dark sides there...) were always good fun... by the 201s most of the good original clothing was gone, but it seems to be a crowd who aren't as snobbish about repro as some vintage cliques, so much easier to get nice stuff made now... Hopnig some year to make it to Atomic as well. Ironically we'd booked a caravan and planned it all to take the dog this year, but then Covid19 hit and everything got cancelled....

i left London in 1992 and went back North , but stayed on scene . I had personal stuff and actually ended up in HMF from late 1993. when I came out I lived down there again with ex and actually had a stall in Camden stables. It was 2003/4 and they were just ripping the heart out of it ! Building Top shop etc.
In the 80s I’d worked at original Dingwalls ,a dive but atmosphere and talent I saw was amazing.
I actually worked in the Barbican Health and fitness club as a chef in about 89 though!
Your right about the loss of most originals. Saw Johnny Poweres in Birmingham about 7 years ago He could hardly walk unaided and was unsteady sat BUT put on the stage he was suddenly jumping around and acting like he was a teenager again!
As good as when I first saw him in about 84!
I’ve loads more about what you have written about “ Rockin” scene but it’s a thread about the 80s so in another place maybe

tempestbella · Jan 27, 2021

The “ Rockin” scene was more inclusive in the 1980s . Where everyone went to anything pre 1960s style. there was a fabulous seasonal ball in Carisbrooke halls in London Marble Arch where dress code was adhered to
Just like Army mess dos, Women could only wear dress pants.but most chose ball gowns/original suits ( I had bought about 7 women’s original 1940s wool ones that were dead stock, still “ government tickets from war” ticket in couple” for a £5 each in Leeds ) Absolutely no jeans for anyone and men jacket and tie. And Everyone went out in their finery. I miss dressing up so much. I’ve loads of original stuff and nowhere to go. we found some gems back then . Original women’s shoes in boxes that had been in storage got sold a pound a pair..
We had no mass events like Goodwood or even weekenders . I was involved with first Hemsby at the core and had attended ALL previous ones around UK from the very first Caisters. The problem was fighting!
Hemsby opened the door and now ( before Cov19) the market is flooded.
We went to USA airforce bases for 40s nights with big bands playing. Council run Party’s in park . I saw Slim Gallard in Victoria Park London at a “ Jiving for Jobs” event . Absolute Beginners had just been released at cinemas.
The unemployment was high, and the Poll tax Margret Thatcher imposed effected my personal career ! And was reason left London to go back North again but we were our own “ family” lot of whom are organisers and artists still supporting and performing the music/ lifestyle.

Edward · Jan 27, 2021

tempestbella said:
i left London in 1992 and went back North , but stayed on scene . I had personal stuff and actually ended up in HMF from late 1993. when I came out I lived down there again with ex and actually had a stall in Camden stables. It was 2003/4 and they were just ripping the heart out of it ! Building Top shop etc.
In the 80s I’d worked at original Dingwalls ,a dive but atmosphere and talent I saw was amazing.
I actually worked in the Barbican Health and fitness club as a chef in about 89 though!
Your right about the loss of most originals. Saw Johnny Poweres in Birmingham about 7 years ago He could hardly walk unaided and was unsteady sat BUT put on the stage he was suddenly jumping around and acting like he was a teenager again!
As good as when I first saw him in about 84!
I’ve loads more about what you have written about “ Rockin” scene but it’s a thread about the 80s so in another place maybe

Be great to have a thread on this - as much as TFL is a great repository of knowledge about the period itself, I think there's also an importance in capturing the development of the vintage 'scene' as well, how it developed. One reason the Clash continue to be so important for me - they were very much my gateway to rockabilly, and thence a wider pre-1960 scene.

Saw Jerry Lee Lewis on his last UK gig, so glad we jumpedon it when we got the chance. He still had 'it'. Alas so many of them are going now - hell, even my punk rock heroes are fading out fast.

Harp · Jan 27, 2021

Edward said:
Saw Jerry Lee Lewis on his last UK gig, so glad we jumpedon it when we got the chance. He still had 'it'. Alas so many of them are going now - hell, even my punk rock heroes are fading out fast.

Once sat in audience at Chicago's Kingston Mines during a late nite Mississippi Delta blues jam session,
heard a British accent nearby that sounded like Mick Jagger. A student of the blues he explained.

Edward · Jan 28, 2021

Harp said:
Once sat in audience at Chicago's Kingston Mines during a late nite Mississippi Delta blues jam session,
heard a British accent nearby that sounded like Mick Jagger. A student of the blues he explained.

Mick, Keith and the boys all loved the old blues stuff that was largely ignored in the US at the time. They actually had a lot of their heroes support them (including Muddy Waters) in the US - in part a deliberate payback, bringing them to attention again, for what they felt they'd been gifted by them. With Keith particularly you can hear it in his approach to guitar.

GHT · Jan 28, 2021

Edward said:
Mick, Keith and the boys all loved the old blues stuff that was largely ignored in the US at the time. They actually had a lot of their heroes support them (including Muddy Waters) in the US - in part a deliberate payback, bringing them to attention again, for what they felt they'd been gifted by them. With Keith particularly you can hear it in his approach to guitar.

In my college days, The Rolling Stones were the must band, to see. They had quite a repertoire of those pre-war, African/American songs. If you listen to them you can hear that distinctive sound that filtered through every generation and genre. To garner popularity, The Rolling Stones went mainstream and lost that rawness that had given them such a following in the early days. Not that it was a bad thing for Mick & the boys, the legacy that they left created many a new fan of the early days. Those artistes of that period rarely got the acknowledgement they deserve, but at least those fans of The Rolling Stones' own early days, were pointed in the right direction.

Tempestbella, have our paths ever crossed? I must have seen you at Hemsby or maybe Goodwood, there again we could have been at Twinwood or Camber Sands.

You are right about Carisbrooke Halls, wonderful, wonderful nights. Did you ever go to the summer balls at The Rivoli?

Harp · Jan 28, 2021

Edward said:
Mick, Keith and the boys all loved the old blues stuff that was largely ignored in the US at the time. They actually had a lot of their heroes support them (including Muddy Waters) in the US - in part a deliberate payback, bringing them to attention again, for what they felt they'd been gifted by them. With Keith particularly you can hear it in his approach to guitar.

The diaspora brought the blues to Chicago's south side where gypsies have kept and kindled flame.
Muddy Waters, Johnny Lee Hooker, Buddy Guy, others. Howlin Wolf, Johnson, Ray Charles, the torch today
kept at established houses like the Mines, Buddy Guy's Legends, Blue Note, smaller dives. Always a
Chicago presence, back alleys, basements. Perhaps larger scene forgot their roots, Chicago never.

Missed Keith interview on cable yesterday, came in just as it was over....
I love Imelda May. Have a keen Irish billy blues curiosity.

The 80s, myth and reality?

Alice Blue

One of the Regulars

MikeKardec

One Too Many

Harp

I'll Lock Up

LizzieMaine

Harp

I'll Lock Up

Tiki Tom

My Mail is Forwarded Here

Alice Blue

One of the Regulars

Seb Lucas

I'll Lock Up

Woodtroll

One Too Many

Edward

Trenchfriend

tempestbella

New in Town

Edward

tempestbella

New in Town

tempestbella

New in Town

Edward

Harp

I'll Lock Up

Edward

GHT

I'll Lock Up

Harp

I'll Lock Up

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The 80s, myth and reality?

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