AF/VS vs Batsakes

I have purchased two heavy felt hats from Art Fawcett and one from Batsakes/Gus Miler. Gus Miller is very nice, but not only did he fail to even tell me whether he would make me a hat, the hat he sent me was not the color scheme I requested nor was its ribbon as I specified. He made light of the color and ribbon, saying this is easily changed. Yet, he has not done it, and if it were so easy, why did he not do it as I requested in the first place since I sent a typed letter and picture?

I am still getting used to Art's hats. Someone told me his hats were too flamboyant and I do see a certain lack of flexibility to his manufacture or conversely, a fixed house style. That said, his felt is far superior to that used by Gus Miller and is perfect for winter wear. It feels very nice, very substantial. I have to get used to "me, in a hat" but I look more and more fashionable the colder it gets...

I can't say that I have had the same time of experiences you have had with your hat purchases. Mine have always been to my liking from the start. I have come to discover, though, that hat making is indeed an art and as such a collaboration between the client and hat maker. As with all artistic endeavors, the finished product and process reflect the personality of the artist, if you will. I value my finished hats, but not nearly as much as the collaboration during the process. I never expect that when I buy a custom hat I am ordering an off the shelf design modified to my specifications. And when things go a bit askew during the process, enjoy it, the story of a hat's creation is sometimes its greatest value.

My two cents.

Eric

Art will

make it any way you want it and do it right. Flamboyant? I thought he was married?

FINE MEN

Both Gus and Art are the finest of men and hatters supreme!

I think both are more then willing to accommodate a clients needs...it may

take time and patients but well worth it in the end.


Most Regards,

michael

The Cream rises to the Top!

In this world where the mundane and mediocrity rule, you can find two men who pride themselves on their work.

I must concur with my Albanian(?) colleague and highly recommend both Art and Gus. I happen to own a few examples of each of their work and am pleased as punch.

I have also heard that Art has a professional design staff working with him on several models and the head designer is, in the world of headwear, a "fashionista."

analogist

Art vs Gus

I have several hats by Art and one by Gus, all excellent hats and made to my specs exactly. Art is easier to deal with because he has a lot of experience with patrons of this forum. However, Gus has been making hats for 59 years and knows what he is doing.

His being Greek makes communication difficult at times but I can't believe he won't make it good. Give him a jingle, he always talks to me...

jeboat

David Bresch said:

...I am still getting used to Art's hats. Someone told me his hats were too flamboyant and I do see a certain lack of flexibility to his manufacture or conversely, a fixed house style. That said, his felt is far superior to that used by Gus Miller and is perfect for winter wear. It feels very nice, very substantial. I have to get used to "me, in a hat" but I look more and more fashionable the colder it gets...

Click to expand...

OK, there are two issues here, I think. But before I write about either, I should point out that I do not own an Art Fawcett creation yet, but very much hope to do so in the future.

First, As Sefton has said, Art is as capable of making you a conservative hat as he is a hat that drips flamboyance from its felt. I have seen several very nice, and very understated, Art Fawcetts on the lounge during my short stay.

However, the reason someone goes to Art is often because they cannot find what they are looking for amongst the hats of Borsalino, Dobbs, Stetson, etc. Since those companies tend to offer fairly neutral, understated hats (because those are the ones that will sell the best), it is only natural to anticipate that many of the hats people ask Art to make are more "showy".

Now, factor in something else: Art is, of course, going to want to show off his best work on his website, and that is bound to include some of the more colourful felts, and more intricate ribbon/bow treatments, so it's only to be expected that his website will be more representative of his fancier examples.

Having said that, I find several of Art's display hats to be sufficiently understated. From his Limited Edition collection, I think his Savoy, and Tucker designs are fairly understated.

In the client designed gallery, I consider #1120061, #1125061, #1209061, #1210062_1 and #1217061 to all be quite conservative.

Art himself encourages people to use the images on his site as inspiration for their own Art Fawcett hat. You can always ask the guy to make you something based on a shape you see: ask him to make you a dark brown Wall Street, for example, or a charcoal Jazzman.

Of course, my current absolute favourite custom hat is still RBH's TVA, which was made by Mike Moore (aka majormoore on FL), so if after further perusal, the work of Mr Fawcett is still too spicey for your tastebuds, you may be interested in looking at some pictures of that hat. That's not to say that Mr Moore's hats are bland. Far from it. Just have a look and see if you like that approach any better.

The second issue is that, as you said yourself, you are still getting used to how you look in a hat. Same here. I've only been wearing hats since August or so, and I still don't have the nerve to wear anything more than brown and grey fedoras with dark ribbons. But as my confidence grows, so does my willingness to imagine myself in more exciting hats.

I hope that post didn't sound confrontational, as it was just meant to address what might be the root of your concerns about some of the hats you've seen.

EDIT: I'm ashamed to say that until this thread, I'd never even heard of Mr Miller. Having Googled him, I may try to make a trip to visit Batsakes when I am in Ohio in the summer.

I have never purchased a hat from Gus

I have four from Art and a fifth on the block.
I buy hats from Art because he makes the finest hat you can buy for the money or even considerably more money. I have two of his limited editions, one modified limited edition, and one based on a vintage hat I sent him as a model. Art is extremely flexible and an absolute gentleman. He is a pleasure to do business with.

The thing I really liked about this forum when I found it was people posted their experiences good and bad as they saw it. That is extremely helpful for new people like myself just trying to get started in finding the right hats.

I only have one fedora ...it was made by Art and is in no way (other than great quality) flashy. Art could not have been more accommodating to what I wanted.

But I appreciate other people posting opinions based on their taste and situation. This is what makes the lounge such a great place.

A Tale of Two Hats redux

David,

I was about to ask you to post photos of the hats in question but then I did a search and found this thread "A Tale of Two Hats" that you posted two months ago on the same subject.

In that thread you state the hat Gus made is closer to the color you'd imagined for your hat, but that the ribbon was wrong as to the bow. Here you say that the color scheme is not as you requested. You also said "his felt is more pliable than Art's, though I have no idea what this says about the felt's quality" but in this thread you state that the felt Art used is far superior. Does that change of opinion reflect additional experience/knowledge on your part?

I'm also unsure as to what you mean by "Gus's proportions are more low-key than Art's" as the photos and the ad on the other thread show three very similar hats, with the only differences appearing to be color and, of course, the bow on the Gus Miller hat. That and the brim on Art's hat hasn't been turned up in the back or snapped down in front for the photos.

With the exception of color-which is governed by availability of it in felt-it appears that Art got the concept right, with the ribbon color being close to the felt color. Of the two hats it's the Miller hat that appears to me to be a bit more "flamboyant" with the brighter ribbon color (ignoring the feather for the moment.)

It does seem to me that if Gus were to provide a ribbon that is closer to the color of the felt with the back bow you'd be a close as you could get to the photo in question.

Oh, and as far as Gus saying color and ribbon are easily changed, do you mean the color of the ribbon? I don't see how the color of the felt could be easily changed without redying it.

I can't address Gus's customer service; the only times I've spoken to him have been in his shop. It can be difficult to hold a conversation with him with other customers coming and going. Nor can I address why he didn't make the ribbon/bow treatment as requested despite having a copy of an ad and typewritten request. One can guess, of course: once started he simply forgot and went with the usual side bow; he felt the side bow would look nicer; he prefers to do side bows. You ask why he hasn't changed the ribbon yet if it was so easy; does that mean he has the hat back in his posession to do so, or did you ask him to make you a ribbon/bow and send it to you to put on yourself?

Of the two felt hats I own of his one I bought from him already made--it was close to my size and I liked it. The other I got on eBay and like the first, though made by Gus, wasn't a "custom-made" hat for an individual. Both were made from the same color/type of heavy felt.

As for Art's hat styles being somewhat inflexible, I don't see it. There've been a wide variety of his hats shown here. He self-admittedly prefers the older styles of tall, straight crowns but he'll make what the customer wants. My own plan when I request one from him is to ask him to make what, in his mind, is the classic fedora. That should be one heck of a nice hat!

I don't know what size you wear, but if you're lucky enough to wear a smaller size I see stingy-brim (2" or smaller) hats in dark green from time to time on eBay. One of those with a new back bow ribbon treatment might get you what you're looking for. I mention the stingy brims as it looks to me like the brim in the photos is about 2 inches. Actually, in stingy brim hats you can often get a good deal in the larger sizes since the wider brims are more in demand.

One thing that isn't clear from either thread is this: Do you like the hats? That is, of course, the bottom line.

Cheers,
Tom

Tango Yankee, thanks for pointing out the previous thread.

Since this comparison has already been made here, why post it again?