Advice Needed: Stretching a NOS Johnnyphi

[jazzncocktails]

Good news/bad news yesterday:

Good news: My Adam Premier Executive from Johnnyphi arrived in the mail yesterday...I've been waiting in anticipation.

It's a beautiful hat--the gray is somewhat darker than the photo, but it is still light--very much what I imagine the Moonstone to look like from the photos. And the ribbon and bow is incredible, the lavender color complementing the gray tones nicely.

Bad news: it doesn't fit. Not anywhere close.

While the tag says 7 3/8, it fits like a 7 1/4 or smaller. Normally, a 7 3/8 is a hair big on me in a new hat, and some shrinkage is necessary during initial wear for it to size to my head. This lid, unfortunately, is already a size or more too small.

So, first, do you recommend stretching this vintage hat? There's a Village Hat Shop location in town, so I can easily pick up a Hat Jack. But given the vintage, unworn nature of this hat, I'm concerned about damaging it.

And if I do stretch it, do you recommend steaming and drying the hat band while the lid is being stretched? That's the advice offered on the VHS website. I've done some searching on FL but haven't come up with a whole lot more than the knee-tug method of stretching.

Thanks for any advice you can offer,
Steve

 

[gtdean48]

I wouldn't use a Hat Jack on that sweet lid to get it to fit, only to hold after having it done on a proper hat stretcher. The Hat Jack will press just at the sweatband which can indent into the felt & be visable all around the crown. The true hat stretchers press out around the entire crown, not just at the sweatband area. I have vintage hat stretchers that go up passed the sweatband & they do a better job that a Hat Jack. Get a pro to do it. IMHO

 

[Ande1964]

I've done it

I have to lightly stretch all three Johnnyhi hats I purchased- more to get them to fit my long oval than anything.

I've had good luck, but I have a whole hat stretcher. I dunk that hat in cool water, and then let it dry on my stretcher overnight before wearing it to a final fit.

It has worked for me, but you should have or have access to the right equipment. I wouldn't try it with a simple hat jack. Is there a hatter anywhere nearby?

Anj

 

[Goose.]

Total agreement with GTDean & Anj is where I find myself on this.
Don't Hat Jack it. Especially given the vintage and beauty of that hat.

This from recent personal experience...as of last night. I have an Akubra Casual that shrunk and tapered (very much). While I was able to knee some of the crown back while slightly damp (mist sprayed) and put a Hat Jack in it, I looked at it this morning and, while somewhat improved, the taper is still there and it's sticking out a smidge from the Hat Jack then starts the taper. It's gonna require some pro work or tools (steam/heat block) to ever get it right again.

My Hat Jack is used for storage to retain the actual size of the band...not so much for stretching beyond what already fit. More of a maintenance process.

I certainly would not take any shortcuts on a fine hat like you have.

That's the only two centavos I have on that...

 

[jazzncocktails]

Thanks, guys. You are confirming my exact fears about stretching. I'd read a few threads about lousy modern hat stretchers, so I didn't want to run out and buy a Hat Jack without some advice. And I hate the idea of stretching this beauty at all. There are no local hatters that I know of...I could send it out somewhere (maybe Optimo?), but given the high cost of the auction, I'm not sure I'm willing to do that...

 

[gtdean48]

I sent Optimo a vintage Stetson that I paid $150 for cleaning, blocking, new sweatband & liner = $90. No way that hat would ever sell for $240, debatable if it was worth the $150 but it is in like new condition. Sort of like my Harley, what I paid for it & what I put into it, I will never see again but it is how I want & like it, so I ride it with pride. Same for this hat, I wear it with pride because that is the only way I can recoup what I spent!

 

[Mahagonny Bill]

Thanks, guys. You are confirming my exact fears about stretching. I'd read a few threads about lousy modern hat stretchers, so I didn't want to run out and buy a Hat Jack without some advice. And I hate the idea of stretching this beauty at all. There are no local hatters that I know of...I could send it out somewhere (maybe Optimo?), but given the high cost of the auction, I'm not sure I'm willing to do that...

Can you wear it all? The jhonnyphi Adams Exec that I got was a little tight when I first put it on, but relaxed quite a bit after wearing it for a few days. Now it fits fine. You got such a great hat there, it would be a shame not to give it a try.

 

[Wil Tam]

nah .. you shouldn't abuse it but sell it ... to me

just kidding ... no seriously .. get a good vintage stretcher that has a 4 point contact, since it's just a size too small you should not have a problem getting it to fit ... a little steam & stretch should do the trick, but take it a half turn at a time.

That's a beauty, congrats with the win!:eusa_clap :eusa_clap :eusa_clap

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Now playing: Marvin Gaye - I Heard It Through the Grapevine
via FoxyTunes

 

[GWD]

Mine was too small too! I used my hat jack over a period of about 2 or 3 weeks and stretched it until it fit. Be prepared to have to re-stretch it. I've never had a hat "hold" a stretch yet.

You can always send it to Graham at Optimo and he can re-size it for you but you won't have the original sweatband.

Good Luck!

 

[Stan]

Hi,

My suggestion would be to use a hot-block stretcher. I have several hats that I used the vintage cold stretchers (like the modern hat-jack but taller and the wood forms a full oval) on, but as others note - they always relax back.

I eventually bit the old bullet and bought a hot-block stretcher for $150 that needed a serious cleaning and a rewiring job. It's been well worth the money and effort, too. Every hat I've used it on stretched out just right - and they all have stayed that way, too!

I have two JP NOS hats from the big sale, and both needed the services of the hot-block, and both are just fine now.

later!!

Stan

 

[GWD]

Hi,

My suggestion would be to use a hot-block stretcher. I have several hats that I used the vintage cold stretchers (like the modern hat-jack but taller and the wood forms a full oval) on, but as others note - they always relax back.

I eventually bit the old bullet and bought a hot-block stretcher for $150 that needed a serious cleaning and a rewiring job. It's been well worth the money and effort, too. Every hat I've used it on stretched out just right - and they all have stayed that way, too!

I have two JP NOS hats from the big sale, and both needed the services of the hot-block, and both are just fine now.

later!!

Stan

Stan, Thanks for the info! I have one that needs to be repaired I didn't think that heat would make a difference with the sweatband. Now I have a new project!

 

[jazzncocktails]

Can you wear it all? The jhonnyphi Adams Exec that I got was a little tight when I first put it on, but relaxed quite a bit after wearing it for a few days. Now it fits fine. You got such a great hat there, it would be a shame not to give it a try.

Hi Bill,
No, it doesn't really fit at all...it's so tight it's not just inconvenient, it's painful. I may try to pull at it dry for a couple of days and wear it around the house to see if it stretches out...but it's gonna have to be quite a stretch.

Wil, good thoughts on the 4-point stretcher...I saw an old hat block style stretcher on ebay earlier today, but for $300, so I'll hold off on that for now.

 

[jazzncocktails]

Mine was too small too! I used my hat jack over a period of about 2 or 3 weeks and stretched it until it fit. Be prepared to have to re-stretch it. I've never had a hat "hold" a stretch yet.

You can always send it to Graham at Optimo and he can re-size it for you but you won't have the original sweatband.

Good Luck!

GWD, I'd meant to send you a PM and ask about yours...good to know that it's not just mine, but this Adam line that seemed to run small. I'll keep Optimo as a last resort--I'd hate to pull out that vintage sweat. Thanks for passing on Graham's name.
Steve

 

[jazzncocktails]

Hi,

My suggestion would be to use a hot-block stretcher. I have several hats that I used the vintage cold stretchers (like the modern hat-jack but taller and the wood forms a full oval) on, but as others note - they always relax back.

I eventually bit the old bullet and bought a hot-block stretcher for $150 that needed a serious cleaning and a rewiring job. It's been well worth the money and effort, too. Every hat I've used it on stretched out just right - and they all have stayed that way, too!

I have two JP NOS hats from the big sale, and both needed the services of the hot-block, and both are just fine now.

later!!

Stan

Cool, Stan--good advice! I'll keep an eye out for one.

 

[Viper Man]

So, how many of these "New Old Stock" hats shrunk? It sounds like quite a few.

 

[GWD]

So, how many of these "New Old Stock" hats shrunk? It sounds like quite a few.

I don't know, but wouldn't you expect that after over 50 years of sitting in an attic that they would shrink? Considering the organic materials used in these hats it would be somewhat of a miracle that some shrinkage hadn't occurred.

 

[kaosharper1]

Be careful using steam. I bought a Johnnyphi from another Lounger who tried to shrink the hat using steam and basically ruined the sweatband which is now stiff and brittle.

 

[Wil Tam]

Wil, good thoughts on the 4-point stretcher...I saw an old hat block style stretcher on ebay earlier today, but for $300, so I'll hold off on that for now.

Keep looking for one less expensive because it's well worth the investment just to be able to bid on a gorgeous lid that is 1/2 to 1 size too small ... Stan made a great suggestion with a adjustable steam-block also ... I need one of those myself ... good luck ... it would be a shame to ruin a perfect NOS lid by having to swap out the sweatband ... thus making valuable hat into something less that you can at least wear [huh] ... I would sell it before I would do that

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Now playing: Art Tatum - Moonglow
via FoxyTunes

 

[Wil Tam]

Be careful using steam. I bought a Johnnyphi from another Lounger who tried to shrink the hat using steam and basically ruined the sweatband which is now stiff and brittle.

did he disclose that before selling it to you? if not you should get your money back...

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Now playing: Bill Monroe - Alabama Waltz
via FoxyTunes

 

[jazzncocktails]

Keep looking for one less expensive because it's well worth the investment just to be able to bid on a gorgeous lid that is 1/2 to 1 size too small ... Stan made a great suggestion with a adjustable steam-block also ... I need one of those myself ... good luck ... it would be a shame to ruin a perfect NOS lid by having to swap out the sweatband ... thus making valuable hat into something less that you can at least wear [huh] ... I would sell it before I would do that

Frankly, Wil, I agree about selling rather than radically altering the hat. That was partly the reason for this post--if I can't wear it without significant alteration to a beautiful, if small, vintage NOS, then I'd rather someone else benefit from it. So, if I decide that's the way to go, I'll put it on the Classified pages...we'll see.