Amon Carter Borsalino; Stetson Shady Oak Farm; Peters Bros Shady Oaks, Bankers Special & Shady Pines

Discussion in 'Hats' started by Hurricane Jack, Nov 19, 2020.

  1. The Amon Carter Borsalino; Stetson Shady Oak Farm; Peters Bros Shady Oaks, Bankers Special & Shady Pines hats.

    This thread is for pictures, the documentation & preservation of the above listed hats. Information is scattered throughout various threads & needs to be consolidated here. There doesn't seem to be a lot of hats so this may not get many posts. That's why I'm asking for the help of all owners & former owners (@buler, @carouselvic, @jimmy the lid) for your help. I'll open by quoting a great paragraph from a 2008 post by Jimmy the Lid, which helps to begin establishing a timeline & some order. The bold highlighting below is mine.

    QUOTE:
    "An excellent source of information on this topic is a book by Jerry Flemmons entitled Amon: The Texan who Played Cowboy for America. According to Flemmons, the hats passed out to dignitaries visiting Carter's Shady Oak Farm were originally supplied by Borsalino. These hats were rather large, wide-brimmed and high-crowned, as reflected in some early photos. After Mussolini declared war on Ethiopia (1935), Carter turned to Stetson to produce hats for him. Flemmons reports that "after months of design research," Stetson began producing the Shady Oak Open Road. In a previous post here on the Lounge, Jimmy Pierce has noted that Tom Peters of Peters Brothers was involved in the design of the hat. According to the Peters Brothers web site, Tom Peters left Fort Worth for Philadelphia in 1921 in order to work for Stetson, where he learned his craft from Stetson's master hatters. Thus, it seems like a relationship existed between Tom Peters and Stetson that could well have served as a basis for collaboration. Jimmy Pierce also confirms that the hats resulting from Tom Peters' design efforts were produced by Stetson. According to Flemmons, Amon Carter "bought them through Washer Brothers, an old-line Fort Worth store, and later through Peters Brothers, a downtown hat shop." Flemmons estimates that, at the very least, Amon Carter gave away "many, many thousands" of Shady Oak hats. Apparently, Hat Life magazine proclaimed Carter the "world's greatest retail hat customer."
    END QUOTE

    And I'll close for now with a pic of the Stetson Shady Oak Farm hat presented by Amon Carter to fellow Texan & International pianist Van Cliburn. Cliburn died in 2013 & the hat was put on display at the museum for the first time in 2019.

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  2. This fun fact has been repeated a few times but I traced the original source to a 2008 post made by AWOL lounger @tinmanzzz that he was told by one of the Peters they imported their hoods from Switzerland thru the 1950's & 1960's because the hoods were still being felted by the old mercury felting method.

    From a PB Shady Oak Fifty, a 6X
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    PB Shady Oak Bankers Special Seventy-five, 7X
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  3. carouselvic

    carouselvic I'll Lock Up

    Messages:
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    Location:
    Kansas
    shady pine 5X Forty light gray (blue hues) when I talked to Joe Peters about it, he said 50's for a date
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  4. Thanks for posting, Vic. I remembered you having the Shady Pine. Could you comment on the dimensions & if they are more like the Shady Oak or the smaller Shady Oak Bankers Special?

    Also do you have any info concerning the raw edge brims vs bound edge?
     
    Bamaboots likes this.
  5. rclark

    rclark Call Me a Cab

    Messages:
    2,249
    Location:
    Central Texas
    Stetson 3X Shady Oak
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    This hat appears to have been owned by Joseph P. Purtell, a correspondent for Time starting in the 1940s.

    Since Fort Worth publishing magnate Amon Carter was known to have gifted these hats to friends, business associates, dignitaries, etc., it is likely that this hat was a gift to Mr. Purtell from Amon Carter. Mr. Purtell must not have worn this hat much if at all, as the hat is in near NOS condition.
     
  6. carouselvic

    carouselvic I'll Lock Up

    Messages:
    4,225
    Location:
    Kansas
    4 3/4" at the crease in front 2 3/4" for the brim
    I know nothing about the Shady Oak or others, never held one.
     
    Hurricane Jack likes this.
  7. rclark

    rclark Call Me a Cab

    Messages:
    2,249
    Location:
    Central Texas
    Peter’s Bros hat box from my photo archives:

    [​IMG]
     
  8. Bamaboots

    Bamaboots I'll Lock Up

    Messages:
    9,903
    Location:
    Alabama
    Great thread, HJ. Big thanks to Rick for this Stetson Royal Deluxe Shady Oak from Washer Bros.
    18638F52-E946-4862-A336-162EB35FA3EC.jpeg CD3BC8AB-A9FE-4436-AA37-1D73276DE585.jpeg E8D80031-E256-4232-8A7F-22E3AEA035CA.jpeg 9BC42C4E-A212-455F-94BE-982354438A96.jpeg 404B149A-850C-4960-85C8-219280FB4FF5.jpeg 7CE75A95-A0B4-4D5F-B04B-E5115508FA0B.jpeg
     
  9. Don't hold back; let's see the others too!

    My Stetson Shady Oak Farm is a 3X as well, which I will get around to posting here soon.

    Thanks for the measurements.
    My initial theory between the PB Shady Oaks & the PB Shady Oaks Bankers Special was that maybe the SOBS were all 2-1/2 brims like the Wide Country, but Bowen has a SOBS with a 3-1/4 brim I believe. Blows that theory right out of the water!
     
    M Hatman and Bamaboots like this.
  10. AbbaDatDeHat

    AbbaDatDeHat I'll Lock Up

    Messages:
    7,194
    ^^^Great thread Jack, et al.
    Yes, SOBS Fifty 7x 3-1/4 brim.
    SO Shady Pine Forty 5x Swiss Hood 2-1/2 brim.
    Things in a bit of a flux around here but i’ll try and get these posted soon.
    B
     
  11. Bringing this forward to consolidate it here from a mixed thread. I didn't recheck links so some may now be dead but can still serve as the original source of the information. Just as before please feel free to add to the timeline with appropriate documentation. Has anyone read any of the Amon Carter books, particularly the one mentioned by Jimmy the Lid?

    -----

    Attempting to put together an often conflicting timeline. If you can add to it with sources, please do so.


    Amon Giles Carter (1879–1955):

    A Chronology

    1925

    Purchases 780 acres of land along the shores of Lake Worth from the heirs of George Reynolds, a pioneer rancher. Builds a house and names the property Shady Oak; eventually installs other buildings and historical artifacts on the property to recall his early years. Over the next thirty years, Shady Oak is visited by some of the world’s richest and most famous people, including Charles Lindbergh and Dwight D. Eisenhower. Carter becomes famous for presenting his visitors with short-brim Stetsons that he dubs the “Shady Oak Hat.” If the visitor already has a hat, Carter performs a trade; in this way, he builds a collection of hats for himself.

    https://www.cartermuseum.org/sites/all/files/about/acm_agc_timeline.pdf

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    Fort Worth: Outpost on the Trinity

    By Oliver Knight


    "Not only is Amon Carter's narrow-brimmed Stetson his trade-mark, it has become an identifying mark for his cronies and the dignitaries who come to Ft. Worth. For every important guest is asked to leave his old hat behind and wear a brand new hat presented by Carter--a Shady Oak hat made of Stetson manufacture. The old hat left behind, many of them military caps, are those of Franklin D. Roosevelt, Harry S. Truman, Charles Lindbergh, John Garner' Otto Kahn, Robert Lovett, W. S. Knudsen, former President of General Motors, Walter McLucas, outstanding Detroit banker, Generals Eisenhower, H. H. Arnold, James Doolittle, "Tooy" Spaatz, and Jonathan Wainwright, and Admirals Stark, Halsey, and Nimitz."


    "The Shady Oak hat takes its name from his farm at Lake Worth..."


    https://books.google.com/books?id=K...QIAxAB#v=onepage&q=Amon Carter Stetson&f=true

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    Former Star-Telegram Publisher Amon Carter Sr. came up with a Peters Bros. design known as the “Shady Oak,” sort of a cross between a Western style and a businessman’s fedora.

    He bestowed them on dignitaries and celebrities who visited his ranch of the same name.

    Since 1923, the hats have been given to nine presidents, ending with President Bill Clinton, Joe Peters Jr. said.


    https://www.star-telegram.com/news/...-stock-show/article3842906.html#storylink=cpy

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  12. Washer Bros Stetson Shady Oak Farm 3X with wind trolley.

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  13. Hopefully we can begin to see a pattern among models as more data comes in.

    Peters Bros


    *Shady Pine (PBSP)

    PBSP Brims
    PBSP Forty (5X) 2-1/2" (Bowen)
    PBSP Forty (5X) 2-3/4" raw edge (1950's, carouselvic)


    *Shady Oak (PBSO)

    PBSO Brims
    PBSO Forty (5X) raw edge (rclark)



    *Shady Oak Bankers Special (PBSOBS)

    PBSOBS Brims
    PBSOBS Fifty (7X) 3-1/4" (Bowen)
    PBSOBS Seventy-five (7X) 2-1/2" raw edge (HJ)
     
  14. Stetson Shady Oak Farm (SSOF)



    SSOF Royal Deluxe (BB)
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    SSOF 3X (HJ)
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  15. rclark

    rclark Call Me a Cab

    Messages:
    2,249
    Location:
    Central Texas
    A link to this post is a must in this thread! Check out those hat boxes at Washer Brothers!
     
  16. 1950's - 1960's Peters Bros Shady Oak Bankers Special Seventy-five 7X. Realistically this is probably a 1960's hat due to the Swiss hood, the red liner & the inflationary price of $75 up from $50.

    I would say it's somewhere in between a Western weight & a fedora dress felt. The crown is a bit softer than the brim, & the hand is very nice but not as nice as my best Stetson 7X; 2-1/2 raw edge brim X 6 open crown. I found no tags or markings behind the sweat or under the edge of the sewn in liner.

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  17. Thanks to Dave @DaveProc we have confirmation that the Shady Pine was introduced in 1950, the "Texas" Hat two yrs before in 1948.

    Fort Worth Star-Telegram November 16, 1952

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    BobHufford, rclark, DaveProc and 3 others like this.
  18. Again, thanks to @DaveProc, ads prior to 1957 pertaining to these hats. The first ad listed refers to imported felt from Switzerland, Italy, England, Belgium, & other European countries.

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    BobHufford, rclark, DaveProc and 4 others like this.
  19. carouselvic

    carouselvic I'll Lock Up

    Messages:
    4,225
    Location:
    Kansas
    Great Stuff
     

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