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Borsalino on E(vil)bay

jake_fink

Call Me a Cab
Messages
2,279
Location
Taranna
In the year or so that I've been a member of the Fedora Lounge I've noticed that it has frequently of late become a kind of Ebay fan forum. A "Look what I bought on Ebay!" party.

Now, I can admire someone's taste, their eye or aesthetic, even their connoiseurship and of course their knowledge and opinion, I even appreciate reviews of new items as they present something for the group to consider. But I've never been one to find pleasure in sitting around admiring someone's latest acquisitions if they are not put into one of contexts above. That's just a little bit too much like trying to admire all the little zeros on someone's bank statement.

Since most of these "look what I bought!" or worse "what did I buy?" threads have ebay as their common link, I'm throwing this in the ring.

I come not to praise Ebay but to bury it.

Time was Ebay was a fun place to shop, now it's a sellers' market and prices and listings are giving me pains.

Look at this lisiting:

Borsalino Mens Hat

Here's a hat from an old (deceased) relative with a "musty smell" being sold by someone too dopey to include pictures of the inside of the hat and who admits he/she has "no idea about this hat," except of course that he/she knows that they want more than $102 for it.

Two bidders (both I think FLoungers) were willing to go over $100 but that didn't crack the reserve.

My problem is simply (?) this:

1) Seller: If you want a primo price for your stanky old hat then list it properly with all the relevant information including photos in the listing. Also try to be realistic about the item and the price.

2) Buyer: (Generic buyers, not the two bidders on this hat in particualr) There are smart ways to shop even on ebay. People who bid on every hat they see and who bid days in advance of the sale bid prices up for everyone and create expectations for the sellers so that they set higher reserves, some of which are just plain daffy. If you have deep pockets this works as an advantage to you, pricing a lot of competition out of the market, but hats in your collection are not worn on heads in the street (and come armegeddon they still can't be eaten).

3) Myself: Ebay has become a virtually monopolistic supplier of old stuff and although ebay does not set the prices, the prices are set by the increased competition for the item (people all over the world bidding on one more freaking Open Road!!!!). It is its own little, microcosmic scarce resource economy. But hats are not bread, and hats are not one of a kind works of art (with apologies to hatmakers who do produce one of a kind works of art - yet another Open Road, for example, is not a a OoaKWoA), so the clamour for them is - to my mind, positioned as it is beneath a hat for most days in the week - out of all proportion and reason.

There is no way that I would pay more than a hundred dollars for a hat that I haven't seen the inside of and I don't care if it is a borsalino. There's no indication of what period it is except the say so of the seller that it belonged to some 100 year old relative. So what! They might have bought it when they were 83 and it's not worth a hundred bucks, especially not if it smells like their musty 83 year old scalp!

I say ebay is the absolute worst place to buy a hat now (and a few other things too, but this is a hat forum) so for that reason, the good news is that your competition has been reduced by one. Deal me out. No more ebay. I'm swearing it off. I'm not even looking anymore.

The bad news is that I haven't bought anything on ebay for more than a year anyway (my brother's bought me a few things), so I wasn't giving you much competition anyway.

The other bad news is I'll be selling a lot of my hats to you suckers, and setting great big juicy reserves on them, so warm up your paypal accounts. :D
 

Marc Chevalier

Gone Home
Messages
18,192
Location
Los Feliz, Los Angeles, California
I don't know how to fight eBay. Here in L.A. -- once a center of golden era vintage wear -- there is not a '40s fedora to be had anywhere. They simply don't show up in vintage clothing stores around here. Same with '30s and '40s suits: it's difficult to find an L.A. store that still carries them. Why? For two big reasons:



1) Southern California's "dressed up" swing revival peaked in '98 and went down from there. Todays swing dancers, or what's left of them, don't go -.-so much for vintage '30s and '40s apparel.

2) The vicious circle of eBay has lured buyers aways from brick-and-mortar stores, and it has lured sellers away from walk-in buyers.



If I want to find a vintage '30s hat in the Los Angeles area, I pretty much HAVE to look on eBay. There's no choice left to me.


.
 
Come to the midwest. We're swimming in 'em. Just today picked up a Portis! My eBay purchasing has been seriously curtailed in recent months, mainly because the prices have all of a sudden gone ludicrous. There appears to be one of jake's neophyte characters in just my size snapping up everything even close to my size that's listed well. I'm left with no recourse but to pick up what badly listed stuff i can, and hope to find stuff in junk stores around here.

great stuff

bk
 

jake_fink

Call Me a Cab
Messages
2,279
Location
Taranna
Marc Chevalier said:
I don't know how to fight eBay. Here in L.A. -- once a center of golden era vintage wear -- there is not a '40s fedora to be had anywhere. They simply don't show up in vintage clothing stores around here. Same with '30s and '40s suits: it's difficult to find an L.A. store that still carries them. Why? For two big reasons:



1) Southern California's "dressed up" swing revival peaked in '98 and went down from there. Todays swing dancers, or what's left of them, don't go -.-so much for vintage wear.

2) The vicious circle of eBay has lured buyers aways from brick-and-mortar stores, and it has lured sellers away from walk-in buyers.


If I want to find a vintage '30s hat in the Los Angeles area, I pretty much HAVE to look on eBay. There's no choice left to me.


.

That's precisely the problem. Like I said... Evil!
 

Vermifuge

One of the Regulars
Messages
260
Location
USA
I used a program for years called isnipeit. The idea is simple. The software will set your clock to the same time as ebay. Then you add the actions you want to track and the most you’re willing to spend. After that you just “set it and forget it”

I found it took a lot of the stress out of eBay. I no longer get that got to have it urge. The software tracks the auction and places the big at the time period specified. I like to make my bids at about 30 sec before they close. It curbs my thoughts of breaking my set budget.

Sure we all want to go shopping at estate sales or rummaging through the thirst store. But I hardly have time to shop for groceries yet alone dumpster dive.

eBay is a blessing and a curse. I’m sure there a lot of things you hate but can’t live without. The TV, Cell Phone, car, kids…..

I’ll take my chances on ebay. In 5 years I haven’t been screwed.
 

Rick Blaine

My Mail is Forwarded Here
Messages
3,958
Location
Saskatoon, SK CANADA
All seriousness aside, though...

... you bring up a good point, several actually.
I am not sure I would call it a seller's market if the sellers are not realizing a sale. And just recently I have noticed a surge in listings both in keyword "fedora" but also in the category "Vintage fedora" there are as of this post 176 items, more than I have seen in eight months or so, this would seem to exert a downward pressure on prices (tho' I am no economist) in fact, this has discouraged me, of late, from attempting to thin my herd of the less worn fedoras, should I reconsider I wonder?
 

jake_fink

Call Me a Cab
Messages
2,279
Location
Taranna
Vermifuge said:
I used a program for years called isnipeit. The idea is simple. The software will set your clock to the same time as ebay. Then you add the actions you want to track and the most you’re willing to spend. After that you just “set it and forget it”

I found it took a lot of the stress out of eBay. I no longer get that got to have it urge. The software tracks the auction and places the big at the time period specified. I like to make my bids at about 30 sec before they close. It curbs my thoughts of breaking my set budget.

See! That's shopping smart!
 

Vermifuge

One of the Regulars
Messages
260
Location
USA
Rick Blaine said:
... you bring up a good point, several actually.
I am not sure I would call it a seller's market if the sellers are not realizing a sale. And just recently I have noticed a surge in listings both in keyword "fedora" but also in the category "Vintage fedora" there are as of this post 176 items, more than I have seen in eight months or so, this would seem to exert a downward pressure on prices (tho' I am no economist) in fact, this has discouraged me, of late, from attempting to thin my herd of the less worn fedoras, should I reconsider I wonder?

this could be related to Halloween
 

rcinlv

One of the Regulars
Messages
144
Location
Lost in time
I guess I'm one

of those evil novices. New to this site, new to vintage hats, new to ebay. Took a bit of a ribbing in an earlier thread over how I didn't "get" the ebay etiquette. Unfortunately I live in a vintage wasteland. Old here is last week, and there are no proper hat shops. I keep checking the classifieds here, hoping beyond hope that the members would prefer seeing their babies go to someone who shares their love of things vintage rather than offer them on an auction website where (gasp) someone may foolishly deconstruct a gem to see if it is a good costume hat. But it hasn't happened. So I am left to chase the hats on ebay, and yes, even bid on a musty old borsy in the hopes that the reserve is set low enough, and the condition is just good enough, that I can send it in for a refurbishing and end up with something worthwhile.

So please don't put your hats on ebay without first offering them at what you consider to be a fair price in the classifieds here first. Become part of the hat lovers solution!!!

For what it's worth...

RC
 

ideaguy

One Too Many
Messages
1,042
Location
Western Massachusetts
Sitting in front of a mute screen watching my life scroll by, hoping to score the
hat that will be "the one!"-and spending money I don't have, and missing my
wife-only downstairs, but a million miles away...
what happened to being an artist and critic? what happened to the exciting chase of the elusive real antique? it IS evilbay. a vortex. worse than video
games. broken promises/empty dreams and a sour taste after a meaningless
"victory" plus shipping and handling-gonna be a long winter, and I've got a lot of books-and other dreams-maybe count me out, too. Yeah, count me out,please.
 

thefedorastore

A-List Customer
Messages
421
Location
Prosser, WA til fall
jake_fink said:
...Now, I can admire someone's taste, their eye or aesthetic, even their connoiseurship and of course their knowledge and opinion, I even appreciate reviews of new items as they present something for the group to consider. But I've never been one to find pleasure in sitting around admiring someone's latest acquisitions if they are not put into one of contexts above. That's just a little bit too much like trying to admire all the little zeros on someone's bank statement. ......

Concerning all of your points that I did NOT quote here, I must agree and have found eBay to be a place for many unprofessional sellers and buyers. However, on the text that I DID quote here, I beg your pardon while I differ in opinion. Since you were so kind to share yours, I think I will do the same. I don't think most FL members are flaunting their purchasing power when showing their latest acquisitions. In fact, I believe most are honestly showing their hats in hopes of conversing with others of the same interest. I believe that is the purpose of the forum. I would hate for people to stop showing off their hats, as I believe it generates more awareness of hat wearing, and I know that it also increases the amount of traffic on the FL through natural search listings. This brings more hat lovers to the FL, and more members. If you were to visit www.alexa.com and rank the FL, you will see that it growing nicely. I think this is in part due to everyone proudly showing off their nice hats, no matter what brand, what material, or who they bought them from.

Keep posting your hats! It's awesome. The FL could become the Kelly Blue Book of vintage hats with enough participation!

Sincerely,
Duane
 

jake_fink

Call Me a Cab
Messages
2,279
Location
Taranna
rcinlv said:
of those evil novices. New to this site, new to vintage hats, new to ebay. Took a bit of a ribbing in an earlier thread over how I didn't "get" the ebay etiquette. Unfortunately I live in a vintage wasteland. Old here is last week, and there are no proper hat shops. I keep checking the classifieds here, hoping beyond hope that the members would prefer seeing their babies go to someone who shares their love of things vintage rather than offer them on an auction website where (gasp) someone may foolishly deconstruct a gem to see if it is a good costume hat. But it hasn't happened. So I am left to chase the hats on ebay, and yes, even bid on a musty old borsy in the hopes that the reserve is set low enough, and the condition is just good enough, that I can send it in for a refurbishing and end up with something worthwhile.

So please don't put your hats on ebay without first offering them at what you consider to be a fair price in the classifieds here first. Become part of the hat lovers solution!!!

For what it's worth...

RC

Hi RC,

I can't send a PM so I'll post this here.

I wish you'd won the hat in the listing above (or your main FL competitor). There's nothing evil about taking a chance on something, it's the high reserrve/low information in lisitng that made me pick on this item, not the bidders.

As far as there being an etiquette, well, there isn't one. I think it's reasonable to bid on the hats you want, to bid early as a marker if you have some prior arrangement with others who might be interested in what your bidding on, and to use a snipe program. There are plenty of snipes that you can use for free with limited access, and it will save you a lot of time and possibly also some money.

Good luck. And don't forget to post your hat size in your profile.
 

jake_fink

Call Me a Cab
Messages
2,279
Location
Taranna
thefedorastore said:
Concerning all of your points that I did NOT quote here, I must agree and have found eBay to be a place for many unprofessional sellers and buyers. However, on the text that I DID quote here, I beg your pardon while I differ in opinion. Since you were so kind to share yours, I think I will do the same. I don't think most FL members are flaunting their purchasing power when showing their latest acquisitions. In fact, I believe most are honestly showing their hats in hopes of conversing with others of the same interest. I believe that is the purpose of the forum. I would hate for people to stop showing off their hats, as I believe it generates more awareness of hat wearing, and I know that it also increases the amount of traffic on the FL through natural search listings. This brings more hat lovers to the FL, and more members. If you were to visit www.alexa.com and rank the FL, you will see that it growing nicely. I think this is in part due to everyone proudly showing off their nice hats, no matter what brand, what material, or who they bought them from.

Keep posting your hats! It's awesome. The FL could become the Kelly Blue Book of vintage hats with enough participation!

Sincerely,
Duane

I must agree violently with you. :) I don't want people to stop showing off their hats at all, I want to see them. I'm just saying that I prefer to see them in some contexts and not in another. My preference would be for people to wait until they actually have the hat in their hands, or better yet, on their heads before posting them because I think they're in a much better position then to talk about their item.

Just my pov.
 

J.B.

Practically Family
Messages
677
Location
Hollywood
jake_fink said:
...I say ebay is the absolute worst place to buy a hat now (and a few other things too, but this is a hat forum) so for that reason, the good news is that your competition has been reduced by one. Deal me out. No more ebay. I'm swearing it off. I'm not even looking anymore...

Whew! Thank God!

I was so worried that I would have to fight you for this little sweetie...
squishhatrf0.jpg


...ooooh. Come to papa, you widdle stinkpot!

Moth damage, hell! Them's termite holes, son!:eusa_doh:
 

Vermifuge

One of the Regulars
Messages
260
Location
USA
jake_fink said:
I must agree violently with you. :) I don't want people to stop showing off their hats at all, I want to see them. I'm just saying that I prefer to see them in some contexts and not in another. My preference would be for people to wait until they actually have the hat in their hands, or better yet, on their heads before posting them because I think they're in a much better position then to talk about their item.

Just my pov.

I have to disagree. Following your guidelines it would be inappropriate to say, post picture of a classic car before you have restored it. Or Perhaps, we shouldn’t share pictures of our children until they are legal adults? If I win the lottery I’m not going to wait till I have the money in my bank account to tell my family.
 

rcinlv

One of the Regulars
Messages
144
Location
Lost in time
Thanks

When given the opportunity I have found all I have encountered in the Lounge to be friendly and welcoming. I am as frustrated as you with ebay- I've been able to "win" a couple of hats, paying a bit more than I wanted to. I don't know what the history of the classified section is, but I wish it would get better utilization. "Keep it in the family." Of course, if it became heavily used, I'm sure we'd see unfortunate price creep there also...

OBTW, 7 1/8

Regards,

RC
 

moustache

Practically Family
Messages
863
Location
Vancouver,Wa
You take the risk.

It all comes down to whether you want to take the risk.I take a risk with almost ANY vendor,selling new or used merchandise.I have been taken by highly rated Internet companies as well as eprey.So if you can afford to lose it,then fine.
It is a crying shame that it has come down to that.But if someone is willing to buy it for an absurd amount,why blame the seller?Unless the item is misrepresented,then i have no problem with it.
Sounds like he told the folks what the hat looked like,smelled like,posted pics,and told a little story.
Who fell for it??iI it his fault??

I would say out of the low 115 buys of mine,i have had 4 or 5 go awry.And of that number,only a few were deliberate.

Be careful and ask LOTS of questions!!!!
Use your Visa and have some security.Paypal gives security as well.


JD
 

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