Civilian vintage-style leather jackets: the bat-wing armhole conundrum

[Creeping Past]

Are there any current leather jacket manufacturers making civilian vintage-style leather jackets (not the more form-fitting A-2s, etc.) that aren't too roomy in the armhole/chest region? From the looks of the photos on his site, John Chapman's Californian Ventura looks fine, although there are no photos showing raised arms.

I've found the arm construction on one of Aero's civilian vintage-style jackets, the Highwayman, a little on the generous side, even to the point of restricting my movement. I've lost weight since ordering this jacket, so maybe there's too much leather in the way now for total freedom of movement. Maybe specifying a slimmer fit would get me a higher, tighter armhole. Maybe not. This is a horse's front quarter jacket and it's heavy, so I'd have thought movement would be the first priority when cutting and constructing it.

I've seen photos of someone losing their head while raising their arms in a Lost Worlds Suburban jacket, I think it is, on VLJ. So this is not just me singling out one particular jacket maker.

We see photos of vintage leather jackets without saggy armholes -- is this cut lost forever? Or is this feature only obtainable in jackets in the very expensive bracket? Do I need to pay more than £1,000 to get a jacket with non-saggy armholes?

 

[STW]

Are there any current leather jacket manufacturers making civilian vintage-style leather jackets (not the more form-fitting A-2s, etc.) that aren't too roomy in the armhole/chest region? From the looks of the photos on his site, John Chapman's Californian Ventura looks fine, although there are no photos showing raised arms.

I've found the arm construction on one of Aero's civilian vintage-style jackets, the Highwayman, a little on the generous side, even to the point of restricting my movement. I've lost weight since ordering this jacket, so maybe there's too much leather in the way now for total freedom of movement. Maybe specifying a slimmer fit would get me a higher, tighter armhole. Maybe not. This is a horse's front quarter jacket and it's heavy, so I'd have thought movement would be the first priority when cutting and constructing it.

I've seen photos of someone losing their head while raising their arms in a Lost Worlds Suburban jacket, I think it is, on VLJ. So this is not just me singling out one particular jacket maker.

We see photos of vintage leather jackets without saggy armholes -- is this cut lost forever? Or is this feature only obtainable in jackets in the very expensive bracket? Do I need to pay more than £1,000 to get a jacket with non-saggy armholes?

Not to disagree, because I too am interested in jackets cut for the best fit around the arms and shoulders, but I believe the stiffness of new FQHH contributes to how jackets ride up. Along with the armhole cut, it's a good idea to compare a stiff new Aero or LW FQHH to the same jacket once it's been worn long enough to break it in. Once broken in, my FQHH jackets have changed a lot in the armhole fit and settled down.

Also, I'm a little skeptical of snug armholes. The vintage leather I've tried and worn with high snug arm holes restrict my arm movement more than the looser bigger armholes common in current civilian jackets like Aeros or LW. Since these vintage jackets weren't made for me, I withold judgement about whether high snug arm holes necessarily feel this way. But the vintage jackets I have, and once had, have fit me well enough that the fit of the armholes seems pretty intentional. In fact, when I've noted the loose large armholes in current production jackets, I've thought to myself, "they must be cut that way to solve the high tight armhole problem you see in vintage jackets."

No doubt some on FL, including perhaps CP, have worn vintage jackets with high snug arm holes in heavy leather like 4 oz. FQHH that are cut in such a way to give easy movement. If so, that's the cut I'm after too. In the meantime, I've worn larger looser armholes with their problems, and higher tighter armholes with their problems, and lightweight leather without either of those problems. For what it's worth, I notice the same problem with tweed the heavier it gets. For example, I have a 1950 Yorkshire-made bespoke jacket in a weirdly thick and heavy Harris tweed (made for my uncle) with large arm holes, that still rides up--it seems that leather breaks in more reliably than tweed.

 

[Creeping Past]

In the absence of other interest, here's a 2005 post on leather jackets with relaxed arm/batwing effect.

 

[Creeping Past]

Another old thread on the relatively higher armholes of the Aero Cossack jacket compared with the Aero Barnstormer.

Yes, I'm near to 1,000 posts and at a loose end. It's a project...

 

[STW]

Thanks for those links. Very interesting.

I know men's fashion recently has favored slimmer sleeves and higher arm holes in jackets, but these links help show that the FL interest in them isn't a result of influence from that trend but for more practical and persistent reasons.