Ecuador Bound! Hat advice desired.

[panamabound]

So, I'm lucky enough to be making a trip to Ecuador next week. I'll be down there for 2 weeks visiting a friend who is in the middle of a 2 year Peace Corps deployment. It goes without saying that I'm excited about this trip since it's my first time out of the country (I don't count Puerto Rico) and a chance to see my buddy.

Anyway, I've been doing my due diligence researching our proposed itinerary/activities but I guess I'm still pretty lost on the hat front. I've been reading up on things like WPI, various cities' markets/reputations, weaver-middleman politics/abuses, toquilla curing methods, cuenca/brisa weaves, blocking, effects of rolling a hat, etc, etc, ad nauseum. Needless to say, I'm still lost as to most of the functional decisions I'm going to need to make on the ground in Ecuador. The threads here, here, here, and here all seem to sound like parallels to my situation. My budget is limited but not to the point of sacrificing the target hat's longevity, functionality, or appearance.

The questions that still stand out in my mind are

1) What's a good way to judge WPI at a glance? Keep in mind that I've only ever seen hats like this (Roll Tide). Of course I've read that even weave/color is important so any tips there are appreciated.

2) Depending on when I pull the trigger on purchasing a hat (or hats, for family back home) we will be traveling alot. So, will rolling be the demise of the brim and/or 'form' of an already blocked hat? I'm probably not looking at getting a ultra-high quality finofinofinofino hat since my family is more used to stiffer, functional hats anyway, but if that precludes rolling the hats I may be in trouble when it comes time to fly home.

3) In addition to the things mentioned in 1 and 2, what are some things I should look for regarding the hat? I see mentioning of certain 'back-weaving' at the edge of a hat's brim, any great close up images around that I might be able to look at to see what to hope for and/or avoid? Anything else?

4) Will I be able to find a good deal on a great hat outside of Cuenca or the Monticristi area? It currently looks like our plans are not going to include travel to those areas. The market at Otavalo is probably going to be the largest established market we'll see. Other towns on our map are Tena, Banos, Riobamba, and of course Quito.

5) I've already sent a message to Panamabob with hopes that I'll hear from him before my departure from the states on Saturday. It mentions on his contact page that he has (had?) a physical presence in Otavalo. I noticed here that he may be back in Ecuador anyway.

Thanks, and in the meantime of hearing back from you gents I'll be reading up on The Panama Canal thread.

 

[fmw]

Others can help you better about the hats than I can. My one suggestion would be to invest a few days in visiting the Galapagos islands.

 

[panamabound]

Others can help you better about the hats than I can. My one suggestion would be to invest a few days in visiting the Galapagos islands.

fmw, I keep getting that recomendation from almost every resource I've touched on so far. Sadly, it's not in the books. Additional travel costs, total time needed to devote to the islands, and expenditures while we're there make it less appealing than spending $2.00 on a bus ride to a town where we can do some caving, whitewater rafting, hiking, and mountain biking then stay in a hostel/hotel for <$20 a night (when we're not staying with other Peace Corps volunteers) and eat very cheaply as well. The Galapagos would add $100 in fees / person just to enter the park + airfare (200-300+ for non-ecuadorians) + lodging while there (I think most people stay on boats and dive), not to mention the additional airport times there and back and getting in and out of Quito one extra time.

I hope I'm not making the wrong decision, and like I said, I hear it's amazing. I just think we'll get PLENTY out of our, somewhat special, circumstances due to my friend being a volunteer/native-Spanish speaker.

 

[Lefty]

You're going to overpay for a bad tourist-grade hat so that you can think you got a deal and a great souvenir. Buy a panama from Optimo.

 

[HungaryTom]

Dear panamabound,


I cant give you much of an advice, I can only recommend that you get yourself one Cuenca hat for shading and choose a montecristi fino for beauty, where it is your own budget which determines what you buy.
Just to see how the real ones look like compared to a Cuenca.:
http://www.thefedoralounge.com/showthread.php?18781-The-Panama-CANAL/page96 post #960

Cheers: HT

 

[monbla256]

You're going to overpay for a bad tourist-grade hat so that you can think you got a deal and a great souvenir. Buy a panama from Optimo.

I would have to concur with Lefty. Since you are NOT going to be able to get to either Pile or Montecristi and this is your first Panama purchase, I would wait and get one from either Panama Bob ( THE BEST value for the money ) or if you want to spend more, Optimo when you get back to the States. Being able to just look at a Panama and tell it's grade and quality of weave CANNOT be told , nor you learn from the Internet. It takes MANY, MANY years of owning and dealing with weavers and hatters. Enjoy your trip, look at some hats, and buy when you get back to the states.I've worn Panamas for OVER 30 years now and I WOULD NOT begin to try and buy one if I went to Panama myself.

Onward thru the Fog

 

[jimmy the lid]

You may want to check out the info in this thread. In my view, there is absolutely nothing wrong with a nice quality Cuenca -- and Homero Ortega has quite a few of them. There is a store right there in Quito, and it is certainly worth a visit, if only to look at the hats.

Cheers,
JtL

 

[danofarlington]

So, I'm lucky enough to be making a trip to Ecuador next week. I'll be down there for 2 weeks visiting a friend who is in the middle of a 2 year Peace Corps deployment. It goes without saying that I'm excited about this trip since it's my first time out of the country (I don't count Puerto Rico) and a chance to see my buddy.

4) Will I be able to find a good deal on a great hat outside of Cuenca or the Monticristi area? It currently looks like our plans are not going to include travel to those areas. The market at Otavalo is probably going to be the largest established market we'll see. Other towns on our map are Tena, Banos, Riobamba, and of course Quito.

I was in Ecudador for a number of weeks in 1986. Here are some random observations. I bought a really good quality Panama hat there then in Quito in the downtown area which was Amazonas Avenue, very upscale. I have heard lately that it is not so upscale now, but search for best hats in the expensive downtown area. Have never been to Guayaquil, but there ought to be good hat hunting there too. Stick to the expensive places, that's the only market there will be for finest hats. I did not go to Cuenca-Montecristi area, but much regret it now, you should go there. The Otovalo market doubles as a tourist site and place for locals to buy goods. It all seemed to be low-end stuff, coarsely made, nothing fine. I suppose there might have been such goods for sale there but I wasn't looking for them. Anyway, don't count on Otovalo for a fine hat. Finally, as long as you're in Ecuador, look into the possibility of visiting the Galapagos Islands. If you don't do it now, you may never. I didn't do it then and regret it.

 

[panamabound]

Thanks for the advice gentlemen, lets see if I can respond in turn.

lefty, maybe, but here's the thing since I'm not looking to get a fino monticristi it might be quite possible for me to set a price ceiling and go from there. By that I mean how can I get a bad deal if I luck out and find 3 functional, nice looking hats for family members for $50 out the door? I get the impression from my research that this may be impossible but only because of, I may be wrong, the fact that I'm not going to Cuenca/Monticristi and that this year seems to have seen a spike in demand. We'll see, and since I'm not in a bind, needing a hat badly, I should be fine making decisions on the spot.

Hungarytom, thanks for the link to the pic. Based upon my price range I'm almost certain I'll end up with a Cuenca, I guess it will depend on what I find/where.

monbla, I'm concerned about that too, that's why I'd love to somehow hook up with PB while I'm there and would like to know if he still maintains some sort of presence in Otavalo. Maybe I won't get any better of a deal but it'd be great to get it directly at the source... How's that any different/worse than buying from him here and both of us having to deal with shipping (which I can't help but think is a decent added cost).

Jimmy, Yep, I'm in 100% agreement. I even referenced that exact thread in my first post. I worry about the upcharge I expect to face buying in Quito, but that might be the price of admission, I'm also totally ok with coming home without a hat rather than paying scalper prices for what I can order from Bob here.

dan, good info! Yea, I'm concerned that Otavalo might be a longshot. I guess I'll have to keep my fingers crossed. '86 is quite a while back. I'm guessing the market there has changed since then but have no idea if that means for the better or for the worse. EVERY SINGLE guidebook (including lonely planet, which I have a healthy respect for) has said that the market there is a no-brainer if only for the experience. I guess we'll see.

Thanks all, and someone find PB and send him my way!
D

 

[danofarlington]

Yes, do go to Otovalo, it's great. Just maybe not a place for high-end merchandise. Two other things: Quito is at 9,000 feet so you'll probably be short of breath there. Also, it's scary flying out of Quito airport in the fog in a little plane when moving about the country. But don't worry.

 

[panamabound]

dan, Yea I've worked in Yellowstone National Park on 2 separate summer seasons and know that the altitude affects me (I was raised within 30 mins of the beach) so I've gotten a prescription for Diamox and have begun taking Ginko Biloba. It might be snake oil on the latter but it can't hurt. Re: scary flying: nothing can be scarier than taking a one engine 6 seater but I've only done that once and it was kinda fun/adventurous. We may do a short hop somewhere in country but most, if not all, of our traveling will be via bus.

 

[fmw]

Being able to just look at a Panama and tell it's grade and quality of weave CANNOT be told , nor you learn from the Internet. It takes MANY, MANY years of owning and dealing with weavers and hatters.

That makes one wonder why anyone should buy a high grade panama. If you can't see the difference then how much difference does it make?

 

[danofarlington]

That makes one wonder why anyone should buy a high grade panama. If you can't see the difference then how much difference does it make?

It makes a big difference, you'd see if you held them. A fine weave Panama hat is more like a fabric than like wicker as straws are. The more fine, the more expensive.

 

[panamabound]

... you'd see if you held them.

Hence, me wanting to buy in person rather than by mail order if possible. Keep the advice coming.

 

[Aureliano]

You may want to check out the info in this thread. In my view, there is absolutely nothing wrong with a nice quality Cuenca -- and Homero Ortega has quite a few of them. There is a store right there in Quito, and it is certainly worth a visit, if only to look at the hats.

Cheers,
JtL

Thanks for suggesting my thread, Jimmy!
I was there last year visiting family and to be honest, montecristi speaking, everything you'll find in Quito is garbage. The best hats I encountered were at Homero Ortega. Gorgeous, super fine weaving (montecristi quality with back woven brim edges) All the stuff they sell in Amazonas Avenue these days is targeted for turists. They want to sell you mediocre weaves for crazy amounts of money. Something, for comparison sake, that vendors here in TFL will sell for 40-50 dollars they ask 200-300.
If you want to get a fine Montecristi, go there (Montercisti, Manabi in the coast I mean). If you're in just visiting Quito, I'd stick with Homero Ortega.

 

[panamabound]

Aureliano, yea, like I said I even noticed your thread before I posted this help request. I was thinking about PMing you sometime soon but I'm glad you popped up here. That's what I was afraid of regarding Quito. It just screams tourist trap (regarding goods I mean, the locale looks pretty impressive). Any comments on what I might expect elsewhere in country? Like I said, Monticristi is not on our agenda and I'm only one of 3 people in the group so I can't really dictate that we detour there for the hats. Here's a rough look at our 'plans' at the moment. I'd consider them pretty much set unless odd circumstances intervene...

Quito - for a short time but mostly as a hub for other destinations, we'll do Mitad del Mundo for sure.
Nanegal - my buddy's Peace Corps assignment town, he'll show us around here
Santa Lucia - the cloud forest preserve near Mindo/Nanegal, he's got things taken care of there already
Mindo - ziplining, perhaps whitewater, some hiking, etc.
Otvallo - I had to pressure a bit here since I'm excited about the market and our current thoughts only include about 3 hours here
Cayambe - mainly just a stopover
Tena - we'll be here for a few days doing hikes, whitewater, and (what I'm most excited about) caving in the Cavernas de Jumandy and the Mondayacu/Cotundo area (hopefully)
Banos - bike ride to waterfalls, thermal baths, recuperate for a day or two here
Riobamba - crash and go out with some other PC staff here perhaps, mostly a pit-stop
Quito - fly out for USA

 

[1961MJS]

Hi

Hatwise, and looking at Panama Bob's selections, other's selections, and owning a $70.00 Panama from Hatman Jack, I will drool the following pearls of Wisdom. The purpose of a Panama hat is to shade your head, inexpensively, in a hot climate. A secondary purpose is to make you look really cool. The amount you spend should be limited by your means. While a very expensive Panama is better than an inexpensive one, both perform the function and fashion more or less equally. The reason for el cheapo Panama hats is that they are more disposable. Having a $10.00 hat blow down the cliff is a lot less annoying than having it happen to the $100.00 one. I suggest getting a couple of different styles of the least expensive varieties. I also suggest buying a plastic hat box to bring them home in.

Just my $0.02.

 

[monbla256]

That makes one wonder why anyone should buy a high grade panama. If you can't see the difference then how much difference does it make?

There IS a difference I was refering to ones ability to learn to disern this difference from info on the Internet. It does take some time and aquisition of multiple hats to begin to realize the difference which is why the guidence of a reputible dealer such as PB or Optimo or Brent Black can be a BIG help. Panamas ARE NOT felts and being made by human beings ( the "blank" itself) is much more variable in qualitys available. Then there is the blocking, finishing which adds up in the final pricing. For all these "indefinates", Panamas are my FAVORITE hat to aquire and wear Glad I live down here in the hot south

Onward thru the Fog

 

[panamaJess]

I was just in Quito and Cuenca. The hats at the market in Quito were low quality--they would make fun, inexpensive souvenirs for friends. You could even buy the rolled ones they sell in balsa wood boxes for travel (I can't believe I just said that -- check out my soap box on that here).

When Walt Pieper of Panador Hats was in Quito once, instead of buying a hat off the street, he went to a reputed hat shop (one of the big names in Quito) and bought a $50 hat--which should have been enough for a fine hat down there. Well after a few months of normal wear look how his hat ended up. It wasn't finished properly:

So I suggest buying your fine hats -- a hat you're investing in for the long haul -- from a trusted seller who knows hats and can give you information about the hat's weave AND finish. There are several out there, but I know the Panador Hat Company's website gives complete and accurate info about their products.

There is a reason people have been investing in fine Panama hats for centuries. There is difference between a Montecristi and fake. But don't forget to consider what makes a Montecristi a Montecristi. The tightness of the weave, the way the edges are finished. Of course a real Montecristi is woven in Montecristi, Ecuador. But if you can find a hat similar in quality for a lower price, more power to ya. After all the majority of "Montecristi" hats sold are fakes anyway.

It's great to hear you are really thinking through your first investment in a genuine Panama. Buy a couple of hats for touring Ecuador / mowing-the-lawn for fun, and continue to do your research to find the perfect Panama for yourself.

 

[panamaJess]

The purpose of a Panama hat is to shade your head, inexpensively, in a hot climate. While a very expensive Panama is better than an inexpensive one, both perform the function and fashion more or less equally.

But, hats with a tighter weave (which means the hat took more time to weave, which means it will cost more) breathe better and will therefore keep your head cooler.

The reason for el cheapo Panama hats is that they are more disposable. Having a $10.00 hat blow down the cliff is a lot less annoying than having it happen to the $100.00 one.

So true!