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French Hats and makers.

Daniele Tanto

I'll Lock Up
Messages
4,148
Location
Verona - Italia
Second homburg or diplomatique made in France arrived in the past days.
Gelot 2.jpg

Quite rare to find a Gelot, even less so of this color. Dark gray with blue highlights.
Gelot 5.jpg
The shape is the classic one of the "normal shaped" homburgs. Size 58 centimeters or 7 1/4 in the US.
Gelot 3a.jpg
The curled brims are 5 centimeters long, the ribbon, the same color as the felt, is 4 centimeters high and the crown, completely open is 13 centimeters.
Gelot interno.jpg
The inside reminds me that the hat is almost a hundred years old and is perfect, a little less so on the outside where there are small imperfections that can easily be resolved.
Gelot 7.jpg
The question is which hat manufacturer made this Gelot?
Gelot 8a.jpg
No information at inside the sweatban and the mystery continues....
 
Messages
17,982
Location
Nederland
Second homburg or diplomatique made in France arrived in the past days.
View attachment 605605
Quite rare to find a Gelot, even less so of this color. Dark gray with blue highlights.
View attachment 605606
The shape is the classic one of the "normal shaped" homburgs. Size 58 centimeters or 7 1/4 in the US.
View attachment 605607
The curled brims are 5 centimeters long, the ribbon, the same color as the felt, is 4 centimeters high and the crown, completely open is 13 centimeters.
View attachment 605608
The inside reminds me that the hat is almost a hundred years old and is perfect, a little less so on the outside where there are small imperfections that can easily be resolved.
View attachment 605609
The question is which hat manufacturer made this Gelot?
View attachment 605610
No information at inside the sweatban and the mystery continues....
That is an outstanding beauty of a hat! Great find, Daniele.
 

batankyu

New in Town
Messages
9
Location
France
Hi, I purchased this short brim "Motsch Fils" black fedora at a garage sale for 5 euro along Prado beach in Marseille on Sunday 20 April 2024. I wondered if there was any chance to put some date range on it.

All I know is that Etienne Motsch founded his hat shop in Paris in 1887 and that Hermes bought the shop in 1991. Obviously some son must have taken the succession of his father at some point in the century since the hat is a "Motsch Fils" (Motsch Son) but I have no clue when.

The sweatband is black says "PUR LIÈVRE" (pure hare) on the front and "Motsch Fils - Paris" on the right side. The same label on the black inner lining has worn off and is mostly unreadable now. The ribbon is in the same felt material as the hat, without bow. There's a tag hidden behind the sweatband at the back: it is serrated with 3 cells: the widest one on the left says "135 noir" (black), the middle one says "REF. 98568", the most norrow on the right says "ENTRÉE 5" and maybe "10".

Pictures of the hat on imgur



Front view.

coyyfFc.jpeg

Rear view.

orOzRlV.jpeg

Left side view.

BsywkWK.jpeg

Right side view.

A95X3ID.jpeg

Top view.

dITYaQR.jpeg

Bottom view.

jk8RzZL.jpeg

Sweatband, Front view.

fVXJquj.jpeg

Sweatband, right side view.

OVGsDe6.jpeg

Inner lining.

vX7gM6O.jpeg

Tag behind back of sweatband.
SN4Oftw.jpeg

Tag behind back of sweatband.

APFd4aE.jpeg

Owner.
 
Last edited:
Messages
17,982
Location
Nederland
Hi, I purchased this short brim "Motsch Fils" black fedora at a garage sale for 5 euro along Prado beach in Marseille on Sunday 20 April 2024. I wondered if there was any chance to put some date range on it.

All I know is that Etienne Motsch founded his hat shop in Paris in 1887 and that Hermes bought the shop in 1991. Obviously some son must have taken the succession of his father at some point in the century since the hat is a "Motsch Fils" (Motsch Son) but I have no clue when.

The sweatband is black says "PUR LIÈVRE" (pure hare) on the front and "Motsch Fils - Paris" on the right side. The same label on the black inner lining has worn off and is mostly unreadable now. The ribbon is in the same felt material as the hat, without bow. There's a tag hidden behind the sweatband at the back: it is serrated with 3 cells: the widest one on the left says "135 noir" (black), the middle one says "REF. 98568", the most norrow on the right says "ENTRÉE 5" and maybe "10".

Pictures of the hat on imgur



Front view.

coyyfFc.jpeg

Rear view.

orOzRlV.jpeg

Left side view.

BsywkWK.jpeg

Right side view.

A95X3ID.jpeg

Top view.

dITYaQR.jpeg

Bottom view.

jk8RzZL.jpeg

Sweatband, Front view.

fVXJquj.jpeg

Sweatband, right side view.

OVGsDe6.jpeg

Inner lining.

vX7gM6O.jpeg

Tag behind back of sweatband.
SN4Oftw.jpeg

Tag behind back of sweatband.

APFd4aE.jpeg

Owner.
Cool find and for the price you cannot go wrong. The style suggests it's mid sixties to mid seventies.
 
Messages
17,982
Location
Nederland
Mossant heather looked promising. Turned out to be a size 55 with the overwelt brim at 6cm and the crown at 10cm at the center dent. No labels inside the hat other than a small size label. With some stretching I can just about make it fit, but it still looks too small a hat. Too bad; a nice looking hat, but should have been a size or two bigger (or seven sizes, Brent;)).

mossant heather55_01.jpg


mossant heather55_02.jpg


mossant heather55_03.jpg


mossant heather55_04.jpg


mossant heather55_05.jpg


mossant heather55_06.jpg


mossant heather55_07.jpg


mossant heather55_08.jpg


mossant heather55_10.jpg


mossant heather55_11.jpg
 
Messages
17,982
Location
Nederland
Mossant for Sools. Turned out a size 56 (just right!) with the stitched brim at 6cm and the crown at 10,5cm. Very thin and lightweight felt designated Castor Hudson. Weighs 84 grams. The colour is called Charcoal. The brim stitching is the special feature on this one: extremely fine and close to the brim edge.

mossant castor charcoal_01.jpg


mossant castor charcoal_02.jpg


mossant castor charcoal_03.jpg


mossant castor charcoal_04.jpg


mossant castor charcoal_05.jpg


mossant castor charcoal_06.jpg


mossant castor charcoal_07.jpg


mossant castor charcoal_08.jpg


mossant castor charcoal_09.jpg


mossant castor charcoal_12.jpg
 

moehawk

I'll Lock Up
Messages
5,694
Location
Northern California
Mossant for Sools. Turned out a size 56 (just right!) with the stitched brim at 6cm and the crown at 10,5cm. Very thin and lightweight felt designated Castor Hudson. Weighs 84 grams. The colour is called Charcoal. The brim stitching is the special feature on this one: extremely fine and close to the brim edge.

mossant castor charcoal_01.jpg


mossant castor charcoal_02.jpg


mossant castor charcoal_03.jpg


mossant castor charcoal_04.jpg


mossant castor charcoal_05.jpg


mossant castor charcoal_06.jpg


mossant castor charcoal_07.jpg


mossant castor charcoal_08.jpg


mossant castor charcoal_09.jpg


mossant castor charcoal_12.jpg
Nice score!
 
Messages
17,982
Location
Nederland
Maurice Pirot.

View attachment 611842 View attachment 611843 View attachment 611844 View attachment 611845 View attachment 611846 View attachment 611847 View attachment 611848 View attachment 611849 View attachment 611850

The brim is2 inches, and the crown 4 1/4 inches as creased. 124g. The felt is top notch, as is the rest of the materials and construction. No indication of who made it, the only markings under the sweat is the small stamp pictured. I am thinking right around 1960 on this one.
Cool find, John and a nice looking hat. Can't recall having ever seen a Maurice Pirot hat.
 

moehawk

I'll Lock Up
Messages
5,694
Location
Northern California
Cool find, John and a nice looking hat. Can't recall having ever seen a Maurice Pirot hat.
Thanks Stefan!
I hadn't heard of him either, and a quick Googling only gave references to this hat on eBay. Made it even more intriguing. I was hoping for clues as to the maker, but it looks like another French mystery hat.
 

Daniele Tanto

I'll Lock Up
Messages
4,148
Location
Verona - Italia
Maurice Pirot.
John, there are many mysteries in European hat making where retailers have branded hats made by large, medium and small hat makers as their own. Some like Sools have declared provenance, others have branded and sold them as their own.
In Italy I found some examples in some Borsalinos that have the Cappellificio Cervo manufacturing label, others, like in France, made a dedicated lining that hid any origin. This situation continued in Italy until a few years ago.
 
Messages
17,982
Location
Nederland
This well known Mossant poster will be on auction next week over here. Description: Capiello, Leonetto (1875-1942). Mossant Colour lithogr. poster, 160x115 cm., signed on the stone, 1938, laid down on linen.
- Sl. agetoned; a few sm. hairlines in the ink; sm. repair in blank margin in upper right corner.

1715115119160.png


Expected price between €600 and €800, auction costs not included. Could go higher of course. That's a bit much for my taste, but if anyone's interested I'll give you the link.
 

Steve1857

I'll Lock Up
Messages
8,542
Location
Denmark
This well known Mossant poster will be on auction next week over here. Description: Capiello, Leonetto (1875-1942). Mossant Colour lithogr. poster, 160x115 cm., signed on the stone, 1938, laid down on linen.
- Sl. agetoned; a few sm. hairlines in the ink; sm. repair in blank margin in upper right corner.

View attachment 612325

Expected price between €600 and €800, auction costs not included. Could go higher of course. That's a bit much for my taste, but if anyone's interested I'll give you the link.
A truly wonderful poster, Stefan.

I'm still kicking myself for not pulling the deal on a Mossant poster I could have had if only I'd been willing to travel to pick it up.

It still would have been cheaper than that one though.

Will it really go for that price?

I'm thinking, how many real hats could you buy for €600 to €800.

Ah, well, a man can dream :)
 
Messages
17,982
Location
Nederland
A truly wonderful poster, Stefan.

I'm still kicking myself for not pulling the deal on a Mossant poster I could have had if only I'd been willing to travel to pick it up.

It still would have been cheaper than that one though.

Will it really go for that price?

I'm thinking, how many real hats could you buy for €600 to €800.

Ah, well, a man can dream :)
Well, it's the same auction house I got the Borsalino catalogue from and that went for twice the starting price. They will start at €600 anyway and go up from there. It will buy quite a few real hats for sure, but we've got no shortage there. so...
There's a lot of 140 plus Polish filmposters in there as well, which starts lower! How's this for invasion of the body snatchers (at least that's what I think it is)?

1715118733800.png
 

Steve1857

I'll Lock Up
Messages
8,542
Location
Denmark
Well, it's the same auction house I got the Borsalino catalogue from and that went for twice the starting price. They will start at €600 anyway and go up from there. It will buy quite a few real hats for sure, but we've got no shortage there. so...
There's a lot of 140 plus Polish filmposters in there as well, which starts lower! How's this for invasion of the body snatchers (at least that's what I think it is)?

View attachment 612334
Please send the link to the auction house, Stefan. It will be fun to follow the bidding.
 

moehawk

I'll Lock Up
Messages
5,694
Location
Northern California
John, there are many mysteries in European hat making where retailers have branded hats made by large, medium and small hat makers as their own. Some like Sools have declared provenance, others have branded and sold them as their own.
In Italy I found some examples in some Borsalinos that have the Cappellificio Cervo manufacturing label, others, like in France, made a dedicated lining that hid any origin. This situation continued in Italy until a few years ago.
Nothing wrong with a good mystery!
 

MikeinRome

Practically Family
Messages
831
Mossant Castor (Beaver) Homburg from Sools that arrived from Vannes, Brittany several days ago. The finished brim is 2 1/2 inches front and back and 2 1/4 inches on the sides. Open crown is 5 1/2 inches. I love this hat! I don't understand why this hat only rated 2 stars while an average Borsalino Quality Superiore sold by Sools that's for sale on eBay rated 3 stars. I feel pretty confident that this is easily the better hat.
 

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Steve1857

I'll Lock Up
Messages
8,542
Location
Denmark
Mossant Castor (Beaver) Homburg from Sools that arrived from Vannes, Brittany several days ago. The finished brim is 2 1/2 inches front and back and 2 1/4 inches on the sides. Open crown is 5 1/2 inches. I love this hat! I don't understand why this hat only rated 2 stars while an average Borsalino Quality Superiore sold by Sools that's for sale on eBay rated 3 stars. I feel pretty confident that this is easily the better hat.
Great find, Mike.
 

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