Geatest designs of WWII

[deanglen]

And of course the shark's mouth on the P-40

That's what I have always found so strange, the Chinese called them flying "Tigers".[huh] Isn't it pretty clearly a shark? :eusa_doh: Had they never heard of or seen
sharks before? Sharks don't fly? Well neither do tigers. Tigers are more aggressive? Well, I'm sure the tactics Chennault used were closer to sharks attacking rather than tigers. I know this seems a small point, but one have often thought of when I hear what they were called.

dean

 

[Baggers]

Did the Chinese name them, or was it Chennault? The official name was the American Volunteer Group after all.

Tigers are native to India, so perhaps it came about as the group filtered up to China from there.

Just a SWAG on my part, as I really have never done any research on the AVG.

Cheers!

 

[Jay]

I say the greatest design was the M1 Garand.

 

[Maj.Nick Danger]

Did the Chinese name them, or was it Chennault? The official name was the American Volunteer Group after all.

Tigers are native to India, so perhaps it came about as the group filtered up to China from there.

Just a SWAG on my part, as I really have never done any research on the AVG.

Cheers!

It was the Chinese.

 

[bingolittle]

on 'dogfights' just tonight, they said the japanese called them tigers after a patrol downed 4 out of 10 bombers during their first encounter.....

 

[BigDawgBarkin]

That's what I have always found so strange, the Chinese called them flying "Tigers".[huh] Isn't it pretty clearly a shark? :eusa_doh: Had they never heard of or seen
sharks before? Sharks don't fly? Well neither do tigers. Tigers are more aggressive? Well, I'm sure the tactics Chennault used were closer to sharks attacking rather than tigers. I know this seems a small point, but one have often thought of when I hear what they were called.

dean

I think the unit (AVG) had already painted the shark mouths on the planes when the Chinese named them the Flying Tigers after one of the squadron's first missions. Until I learned this I used to wonder why they were called the Flying Tigers but had sharks' mouths painted on the planes.

Wayne

 

[The Wingnut]

The sharkmouth:

The Tigers' Chalie Bond copied it from pictues he saw in a magazine of RAF No. 112 Sqn's P-40s operating in Tunisia. No 112 Sqn is said to have copied it from the ME110s of ZG 26 that they encountered. These markings might have been carried over or copied from 2/JG 71 which was flying BF-10Cs in the Spanish Civil War as early as 1939.

The 'Flying Tigers' moniker was suggested by the son of Tommy Corcoran, advisor to FDR on national and foriegn policy and head of China Defense Supplies, the secret support entity behind the Tigers in Washington, D.C.

 

[Spitfire]

Form, function and aesthetics...

To me great design is when form and function melts together in a unified aesthetic whole. Having said that, most US planes like the Thunderbolt, Corsair and Bearcat drops out.(sorry )
To me they are nothing but a huge engine with a huge spinner in front. Some wings sticking out in the middle and a hole on top for the pilot.

 

[deanglen]

The sharkmouth:

The Tigers' Chalie Bond copied it from pictues he saw in a magazine of RAF No. 112 Sqn's P-40s operating in Tunisia. No 112 Sqn is said to have copied it from the ME110s of ZG 26 that they encountered. These markings might have been carried over or copied from 2/JG 71 which was flying BF-10Cs in the Spanish Civil War as early as 1939.

The 'Flying Tigers' moniker was suggested by the son of Tommy Corcoran, advisor to FDR on national and foriegn policy and head of China Defense Supplies, the secret support entity behind the Tigers in Washington, D.C.

Thanks for that info. Clears up quiite a bit. 'Tigers', I suppose sounds a bit more noble than 'Sharks'

dean

 

[Merlin]

As far as styling goes, it's gotta be the P-38 Lightning. GM's Bill Mitchell was so taken with the way it looked, he incorporated the fins into the '49 Cadillac. And the prop spinners would shortly wind up in the front bumper/grille assembly. And since the impact of Cadillac's styling during the 1950's can't really be overstated because every car manufacturer tried to emulate it, it's hard to say that there were very many WWII-era designs that had more impact on the civilian world.

For fashion? How about the classic crush caps that pilots used to wear?

And for design, in the engineering sense of the term. . . I'm kinda particular to the Merlin V-12. But then, it was a very complex engine (though made far more reliable by the input of Packard's engineers), and far more finicky than the Allison V-1710. Tough call to say which was better. The Merlin had the advantage of more refinement and development time. Had the Allison been supercharged earlier in the war, it might be a different story.

Still, there's something really cool about the fact that Jay Leno has a Rolls-Royce Phantom II with a Merlin in it. Even without the supercharger, the thing puts out close to a thousand horsepower. Who needs a brand-new Bugatti?

 

[Twitch]

Have to interject something I wrote a while back-

"I'm talking about mass production quality control which American auto manufacturers led the world in. Nowhere else in the world did any vehicle industry produce the number of units with the attendantly stable quality as in the US.

RR was a superstar in aero engines for the times before and at the commencement of WW 2 . Packard built the Liberty V-12s during 1917 in WW I and were well versed on aero engines too. They developed a diesel-fueled aero engine in 1928 in the 1st aircraft to fly on diesel. Their autos began using V-12 in 1932Along the way during Merlin production Packard introduced 23 upgrades or design evolutions each more powerful than the last.

Known in the indusrty as "The Master Motor Builder," Packard's VP of Engineering Jesse Vincent held 206 patents for innovations from spiral bevel drive gears to the worlds 1st auto air conditioning. He took a clean sheet of paper and designed the 1,500HP aluminum V-12s that powered the US Navy's PT boats.

The Merlin used the less-than-reliable evaporative cooling system. Ethylene glycol-based antifreeze from the US became available and this proved them to finally be reliably cool running. The simple widespread availability of 100 octane aviation fuel from the US gave the Merlin increased power. This fuel permitted higher boost pressures and temperatures without detonation, and allowed the use of +12 lbs. boost rather than the previous limit of +6 lbs.

RR quality control was primitive by American standards. Merlin engineers randomly selected an engine and ran it on a test stand until something broke. The engine was torn down and the broken part was redesigned. This a painfully slow process to improve quality and reliability for a nation under siege.

Vincent set up specialized assembly line tooling and their draftsmen re-drew the Merlin blueprints with far greater precision that RR's. Packard developed a light measuring tool that allowed Merlin component tolerances to be checked to 1 millionth of an inch! Packard employed the practice of freezing critical parts to set tolerances with no ambient heat to make the part expand and throw off calculations. They performed 70,000 inspections on each of the Merlin's 14,000 parts including magnafluxing- X-raying -parts for consistantcy and to see any stress-related micro-cracking.

They used 80,000 gallons of av gas daily just to test engines. Each engine was test run then fully disassembled after and rebuilt for shipment. These were some of the ways Packard built a better Merlin. They did this in 1941 as soon as they were chosen to build the Merlins. To say that late-war Packards were on par to the Merlin of 1940 is uninformed at best. Packard didn't just fall off the turnip truck and get chosen to built V-12s.

In a similar quest for more power and quality Cadillac improved the Allisons it built, Nash improved the Wright Cyclones they produced and Studebaker made improvements to the P & W Wasp. American auto plants mass produced everything from artillery fuses to the artillery that fired them. They improved quality control over previous original manufacturers in every instance.

Like the BASF commercial "Packard didn't make the Merlin, it made it better."

 

[Merlin]

Twitch, I couldn't agree more. The Merlin was a splendid engine, but totally unsuitable for mass production in 1940. When Packard got their hands on it is truly when it became the legendary engine we know today.

The fact of the matter is, nothing, absolutely NOTHING that Packard ever built was junk. Few auto manufacturers can claim that. About two decades ago, my father had a '39 Packard with air conditioning (the words "Air Conditioned" were emblazoned in huge script along the sides of the front fenders), and the thing blew colder air than his new Chevy at the time. Okay, in order to turn the A/C off, you had to open the hood and pull the belt off the compressor, but STILL! It's really too bad that the company closed its doors in 1958, because the V8 that they had introduced in '55 was probably the best V8 of the era, even better than Caddy's 365.

 

[Ponsenby]

Good thing to come out of WW2 ? The next generation Australian slouch hat! Just like this one;

 

[Cobden]

Ah, but the British wore slouch hats too. [michael caine voice] Before the Aussie's did, and that's a fact [/michael caine voice]

Anyway, my list:

1) The Spitfire - yes, technically a prewar design, but by God, that is the most beautiful thing that mankind has ever designed
2) Liberty ships - everything about them was wrong, which made it somehow "right"
3) WAAF uniforms - sorry, but I just think they're sexy

Post Script:

Posenby, love the Two Types avatar!

Have you read Cairo During the War by Artemis Cooper? Fanstastic book. Apparently, the Egyptians hated the Aussies for a number of reasons that, perhaps, aren't best shared on a public forum!

 

[aswatland]

The P51 Mustang
The Irvin flying jacket, although it pre-dates the war by 7 years
The officers Ike jacket
The USAAF true crusher cap-Flighter by Bancroft.

 

[Tony in Tarzana]

To me great design is when form and function melts together in a unified aesthetic whole. Having said that, most US planes like the Thunderbolt, Corsair and Bearcat drops out.(sorry )
To me they are nothing but a huge engine with a huge spinner in front. Some wings sticking out in the middle and a hole on top for the pilot.

Off-topic, but you've just described the Gee Bee, which appeals to me because it's just the biggest engine the Granville Brothers could get their hands on, with just enough structure for a wing, tail, landing gear and a place for the pilot to sit.

Back on topic, and talking about functional design, how about the Russian Ilyushin IL-2 "Sturmovik"? It pioneered the armor plate "bathtub" around the pilot which later appeared (albeit in titanium) on the A-10 "Warthog."

Oh, and the Stuka wasn't a bad airplane, as long as there was no fighter opposition.

 

[BAZ]

1. Waffen SS camouflage oakA pattern & Blurred-edge pattern, type 1 M1940 Tarnjake AKA Smock & reversible helmet cover. Way ahead of it's time.
..

I think the Leibermuster camo was even MORE advanced. It had carbon fibre meshed into the fabric to "hide" it from the Infra Red scopes that the Allies were starting to use!

 

[Paden]

I think the Leibermuster camo was even MORE advanced. It had carbon fibre meshed into the fabric to "hide" it from the Infra Red scopes that the Allies were starting to use!

hello, my favorite WWII design.

Sorry, upload does not work, it is the MP 40.

http://www.kamisplace.com/Weapons pics/mp40.jpg

 

[Sweet Leilani]

Absolutely the greatest design of the war was the ME 262. Not only did it outclass all of the other aircraft of the time, it paved the way for almost all the significant postwar US and Soviet aircraft. For instance: the swept wing, leading edge flaps, tricycle landing gear and interchangeable cockpit tub were light years ahead of most current designs. And then there's that jet engine....

Check out November's Air & Space for more info on this aircraft. The one above is the template they used for the reproductions-the only two-seat trainer in the world (White 35, or "Vera").

 

[Alan Eardley]

Twitch, I couldn't agree more. The Merlin was a splendid engine, but totally unsuitable for mass production in 1940. When Packard got their hands on it is truly when it became the legendary engine we know today.

Merlin,

An interesting statement. Are you saying that the Merlin engines mass produced in the UK between 1942 and 1945 (which outnumbered the US built versions considerably) were not as reliable or as powerful as Merlin engines made in the US? Or that UK production was modified to be in line with Packard practices?

Can you give me a reliable reference where I can read more about this, please?

Alan