McCartney's 3-Piece and the 2nd death of the 3-button

[dandelion-vint]

The Beatles' tailor was a guy named Dougie Millings. He made the Cardin-influenced collarless suits and their suits for A Hard Day's Night, Help and their touring suits too.

 

[Senator Jack]

So Jack, do YOU think they look stodgy and dated, or are you just reporting what you see as the current fashion mindset ?

No, I never think anything looks dated (and I never call films dated either). I must have about ten 3b suits that I wear regularly and will continue to wear, but I am prepared for a new round of comments on my 50s/60s 3bs from a public that only knows the 3b as a 90s suit. Same thing happened in the 80s when double-breasted suits were all the rage for Wall Street powerbrokers. By the 90s, the public saw them as dated and even if you were wearing a 40s db, people said 'that's so eighties.'

Speaking of which, in the 80s dbs were to found by the rackful in men's stores but if you got to any of them today, even Brooks Brothers, you'd be lucky to find a single model. I'm suspecting the same fate for the 3b over the next few years. They really did become the suit of 90s young, flashy, corporate America, and since Americans like to deny their past (no one listened to disco, remember?) till they get old and try to recapture it (Ooh, a 90s party, I'm going to wear my old three-button), the 3b model has to go away for a while. I had suspected a return of the single button for some time now and that seems to be coming along, and I wouldn't be surprised if the db returned in some form over the next few years.

Regards,

Senator Jack

 

[scotrace]

The main men's store in my corn field thought DB suits would be back this year, but they ended up deep-discounting them to get rid of. I didn't buy any because I thought they were badly executed.
In their window this year they are showing mostly 3-button models, but then again, it's not Madison Avenue.

In shirts, I'm seeing fewer spread collars (as Marc predicted), but the replacements aren't very interesting.

Perhaps the supposed "revivals" (ala the failed DB line) sometimes die on the vine because they are shown with "edgy" revisions that make them look like they will be collecting closet dust in six months, so why shell out the $$$? A well-done 3 button with good lines, a well-done double-breasted jacket with good lines, those are staples, methinks, that should always have a place in a man's closet. But if they are super low gorge DB with bunched up buttons and matching low-waisted flat front high water pants, they are probably not going to be picked up by anyone who isn't seeking to be very currently in "fashion." Among men with the money to buy a suit, that has to be a small target.

 

[Feraud]

Perhaps the supposed "revivals" (ala the failed DB line) sometimes die on the vine because they are shown with "edgy" revisions that make them look like they will be collecting closet dust in six months, so why shell out the $$$? A well-done 3 button with good lines, a well-done double-breasted jacket with good lines, those are staples, methinks, that should always have a place in a man's closet. But if they are super low gorge DB with bunched up buttons and matching low-waisted flat front high water pants, they are probably not going to be picked up by anyone who isn't seeking to be very currently in "fashion." Among men with the money to buy a suit, that has to be a small target.

Good points scotrace. I agree that a designer spin on a classic can sometimes ruin a good thing.

Today I am wearing a single button sport coat and find it extremely comfortable! The button placment is perfect enough to make the jacket feel effortless to wear.
I look forward to seeing the modern single button on the rack and hope the designers get the cut right.

 

[scotrace]

I wonder what Marty is seeing on the front lines?

 

[herringbonekid]

i just don't see a 3 button suit jacket as being enough of a 'statement' jacket to really fall very far from favour. if everyone had been wearing nehru-collared jackets in the 90s instead, then i can see how they might be dragged down by association. but 3 buttons ? it's not that big a deal.

a glance at some of the middle-priced designers over here (Paul Smith and Margaret Howell for example) shows about half 3 button, and half 2 button. and i can't see any reason for these designers to change, as they're basically giving classic elements a contemporary twist, and the 3 button is another classic feature to play with.

3 buttons isn't like rolling your jacket sleeves up in the mid 80s. i think the things that date a suit (badly) are other factors such as lapel width, fabric and trouser width/height. 2 or 3 buttons makes little difference. i understand Jack, you're saying "to the general public it will appear..." but i've never really cared much for what the general public think, and i'm sure you're the same.

 

[Senator Jack]

I just don't see a 3 button suit jacket as being enough of a 'statement' jacket to really fall very far from favour.

Oh, it was a statement in NY all right. You have to keep in mind that the 3b had been completely out of from the early 70s to the early 90s. Like I said, I recall seeing some stabs at a return in the late 80s, but i believe it was when Hugo Ball re-introduced it that it caught on. I also recall the fashion experts saying that you shouldn't wear one to an interview because it looked like you were making a statement.

As for my caring about public opinion, I continued to wear my 60s narrow ties into the late 80s and 90s and would always get that 'hey the 80s want their tie back,' nonsense. Still wearing them today and lo and behold, as I predicted, they're back in style. When they're again out of style in a few years, I'll still be wearing them and go through the whole cycle again.

Regards,

SJ

 

[herringbonekid]

i might hazard an educated guess then that the 3 button suit jacket in England has aquired a 'classic' status (probably because in the 40s a single breasted jacket would almost ALWAYS have had 3 buttons*) that it hasn't in the US and has remained free from era-specific associations.






* typical example of 1940s English 3 button jacket:

 

[Senator Jack]

And your educated guess is absolutely correct, HBK. Didn't the DB get the 80s stigma over there? Classic suit, but as I said, by the 90s, the American public saw it as dated.

 

[herringbonekid]

well yes, the DB did aquire an 80s power-dressed businessman aura after it passed through that decade, despite the strong war-time and/or gangster aura it previously carried. DBs are FAR more problematic to my eye than 3 buttons, and i really can't see them ever catching on with the young fashion-conscious crowd again. only in a very 'ironic' 80s-Bowie way perhaps, which we see a bit of now, but even then only among the arty end of fashionistas.

 

[jake_fink]

Oh, it was a statement in NY all right. You have to keep in mind that the 3b had been completely out of from the early 70s to the early 90s. Like I said, I recall seeing some stabs at a return in the late 80s, but i believe it was when Hugo Ball re-introduced it that it caught on. I also recall the fashion experts saying that you shouldn't wear one to an interview because it looked like you were making a statement.

As for my caring about public opinion, I continued to wear my 60s narrow ties into the late 80s and 90s and would always get that 'hey the 80s want their tie back,' nonsense. Still wearing them today and lo and behold, as I predicted, they're back in style. When they're again out of style in a few years, I'll still be wearing them and go through the whole cycle again.

Regards,

SJ

fftopic:
Mr. Senator,

I don't want to sound like a monkey, but you've referred to Hugo Ball a few times, and I don't know who he is (apart from the dadaist); I'm interested in your semiology of buttons, for reasons almost entirely outside of the interests of the FL, and in other unmapped changes through the 90s. If this Ball fellow had this kind of impact I'd like to know more about him. Any links or information?

Cheers.

 

[Senator Jack]

Did I write Hugo Ball? I meant Hugo Boss. Ever since he's come around, I've been calling him Hugo Ball. The former is the design house (is there an actual Hugo Boss?) , the latter a creator of Dada


Hugo Ball

 

[Baron Kurtz]

There was a hugo boss, i believe. SS costumier among other things.

bk

 

[jake_fink]

Phew, thanks for clearing that up. I couldn't get the Dada thing out of my head and even Google didn't help. (Then I started humming AM Radio by Hugo Race.)

Now, are you seeing these little green sea-horse thingies too, or should I still worry?

 

[reetpleat]

Did I write Hugo Ball? I meant Hugo Boss. Ever since he's come around, I've been calling him Hugo Ball. The former is the design house (is there an actual Hugo Boss?) , the latter a creator of Dada


Hugo Ball

So, Hugo ball is more closely associated with the one button jacket or cape. And unusual hatwear.

 

[jake_fink]

So, Hugo ball is more closely associated with the one button jacket or cape. And unusual hatwear.

He also appears to be looking for his heart.

 

[imoldfashioned]

He also appears to be looking for his heart.

I nearly did a spit take reading this!

 

[reetpleat]

He also appears to be looking for his heart.

Actually made me LOL.

 

[Jovan]

I haven't noticed such a death. Four button suits, certainly, but not three buttons. Then again, I don't really follow fashion as it were. GQ and Details spent so much energy flip-flopping its views on everything in the last two years that I flip-flopped the last copy I bought... right back to the store for a refund.

That suit is exquisitely tailored. Only Thom Browne makes anything similar to that anymore, though most of his suits aren't true three buttons but the three roll two variety. Thick as Thieves LA also get the look right.

 

[Mid-fogey]

You guys are...

...the experts on this, but it seems to me that three buttons have been continuously available for quite some time.

I wasn't even much aware of two versus three button suit coats when I got out of the AF in 1984. As I bought one of my first load of work suits, I bought a three button along with the two button models and really wasn't much aware that I had gotten it. I just liked the fabric. I wish I still had one like it.