Mystery Jacket--Need Help Identifying

[Claybertrand]

After joining FL, reading countless posts here and enviously drooling over all of the members BEAUTIFUL jackets, I am finally posting a query as the FL is truly the only place I can turn to with this Jacket I cannot ID. Any assistance would be greatly appreciated. I am attempting to post pics. I've been trying to ID this piece for about a year to no avail. I traded a Vintage HorseHide Police jacket for this after an ebay bidder failed to pay for it after winning its auction.

It has Scovil snaps, Brass Talon Tear Drop pulls on the pockets, and super-sadly, a broken Crown (Chevron teeth) Main zipper. It has basically flawless olive drab green corduroy lining that shows no signs of having been relined. There are no labels or tags anywhere nor evidence of any prior label. It also has Snap Down collars which is not very common in my experience and it has storm sleeve inner cuffs that keep air from entering the sleeves. The leather is extremely heavy and it is the best fitting Vintage jacket I have ever found. I am 6'0" 170lbs and this jacket is 27" from Base of Collar to bottom of the rear so it doesn't run as short as most vintage jackets yet it is not a half belt. It has no epaulettes, waistline expansions, sleeve zippers, elastic, or gussets so it doesn't appear as a flight or motorcycle jacket.

Please see the attached pictures. Can anyone shed any light on this jacket for me???

Also, in a related question, what would the FL Members recommend for fixing or replacing this Crown Zipper?? As Crowns are impossible to locate these days and Eastman refuses to sell their awesome reproductions (FOR ANY PRICE), I am at a loss as to how to properly and authentically replace or fix the zipper.

Thanks FL for all the collaborative input I've read here over the years.

-GR

 

[tmitchell59]

Very nice jacket. Looks like a police jacket without the trimmings. Interesting jacket. I have a similar police jacket in very heavy horsehide, but with police trim. I'll find a picture of it.

There were uniform makers specializing in police outerwear through out the country. I've seen several small regional labeled custom police jackets. This may well be the case with this jacket. Custom made, no label. Shops specializing in police jackets continue to this day.

I'm not that familiar with the crown zippers for dating. The tear drop Talons? early 60s

The corduroy lining is unique, at least you don't see it that often. I had a Taubers with corduroy lining and the tear drop talons, but it was more 1970.

The maker may remain a mystery.

How long is the zipper? Does it look similar to this?

 

[ton312]

Man I couldn’t even hazard a guess but I will say...if that fits I wouldn’t care who made it. That is a really cool jacket. Really cool. Like really freekn cool.

In the year 2525, if man is still alive, it will be falsely id’d As a premier highwayman. It’s not. But it looks like one.

 

[Claybertrand]

tmitchell, I can't see the pics you posted.....but I was thinking very much along the same lines you are regarding the jacket being of some uniform/police/military production. As you say, it seems to lack the tell tale signs of where rank badges would hang and other defining features. Also as you mention, the only vintage jackets I have ever seen with full corduroy lining are Taubers of California jackets. I've been down that rabbit hole searching all Taubers jacket pics for comparison but no luck.

As for Crown Zippers, (later Crown & Craft) they were early zippers used in old military jackets and gear (specifically many WWII production US Air Force Flight jackets). I believe there is actually some good info here somewhere in the Fedora Lounge on these. They have a unique "Chevron" shaped tooth configuration and they were used for heavy duty applications during WWII and before I believe. Some have a locking type of pull. From what I understand, they are long discontinued, extremely hard to find, and VERY pricey if located. I understand that they were somewhat prone to failure and breakage. Also, any old WWII era or 50s Crown found as New-Old Stock supposedly has brittle metal making them further prone to breakage. The New-Old stock was selling out of Japan 10-12 years ago but I haven't seen them for sale anywhere.

My Main Zip is 23" and missing the pull--with a slightly severed tape and tooth line. All teeth are otherwise intact

Eastman has arranged to have these old zippers reproduced to modern standards with better metal and construction for their WWII Reproduction jackets. However, they won't sell anyone just a zipper under any circumstances as they believe they are a unique facet to their new reproductions. I wrote to them last year offering to buy a zipper and was rebuffed. I'm gonna try again tho

https://www.eastmanleather.com/zipper_info.php

ton312, I agree with you on the Highwayman comparison. Its one of the only style categories that this jacket seems to fall into but not totally. The snap down collar, snap cuffs, lack of waist adjusters and slightly longer length set it apart. But it very much has that Highwayman look to me too down to the rear "western" shoulder area/rear yoke.

I don't know if the fact it has All American fasteners (Skovill/Talon/Crown) rules out a foreign producer but I would think it would especially in this vintage. Also Skovill and Crown in particular being heavily used in military uniforms do indicate an American military/police jacket of some sort. Of course, Post WWII there was likely plenty of jackets produced with what was used in the war time jackets.

I Love this jacket but I have to get the Zipper issue resolved before sending it off for cleaning and minimal conditioning. Arrow Fabricare will replace the zipper but I will need to supply one if I want a vintage zipper. Otherwise its a new YKK and that's a NO GO!!!! I really don't even want to have to resort to just putting in a 60s-70s brass Talon Main Zipper if I can help it. That's the best Plan B I have come up with though with the reasoning that at least, it would somewhat match the Talon Brass Tear Drop pulls.

I certainly agree that the coolness does not depend on its identity---but the mystery and my curiosity sets me off for hours looking online every time I see a similar jacket.

It's a head scratcher. Maybe someone has seen something like this one before and they can chime in as well....

Thanks for your posts guys!!

 

[Seb Lucas]

Looks like it was re-lined in cord which might explain the lack of label. Nicely done.

 

[Claybertrand]

Looks like it was re-lined in cord which might explain the lack of label. Nicely done.

I first assumed it HAD to have been re-lined when I saw it but the guy I got it from said he was sure it hadn't.

Upon close inspection, there are literally no re-stitched, double-stitched, or old needle punctures from what would have been the original lining being sewn in. I gotta believe it would be basically impossible to open this entire jacket up to the extent necessary to re-line it---removing countless original stitches, then stitch in the new liner and literally re-use EVERY SINGLE needle hole that the original stitching used without missing one or overlapping somewhere.

There just doesn't appear to be any clear evidence that it was re-lined other than the liner is in superb condition. The simple Eye-Test tells us that this liner is oddly in much too good of condition relative to the patina on the leather of this jacket. I certainly agree with your observation. Trying to reconcile the differences in level of wear, I was imagining perhaps it was used by some kind of military or police official who wore formal/office attire regularly and that the wear the jacket got on the outer leather was weather related and therefore more pronounced than the wear on the inner lining. Who knows?!?!

Thanks for your post man.

 

[Seb Lucas]

I understand but I have had jackets relined by professionals and you simply can't tell. They reuse existing holes and are just very talented. Most of the stitching of that jacket was done from the inside seam so you can't see what has been done.

The wear almost settles it. The lining always wears out before the outside.

But in the end I can't say for certain and I could be wrong.

 

[Gamma68]

Really cool jacket and I love the old Crown zipper and corduroy lining. I think the corduroy speaks to the quality of the jacket. The maker wanted it to last.

@tmitchell59, your photos often don’t display, which I believe is due to Google Photos storage. I’ve run into this problem myself with my own photos. You have to convert the link google photos provides into a link you can paste here in order for the photo to display. There are free link conversion sites where this can be done. I know it’s a real pain in the ass but it’s the only way I’ve found to ensure that my images stored on Google photos can be seen by others. Hope that helps.

 

[Claybertrand]

You could very well be correct. If this jacket was professionally re-lined, perhaps even a long time ago, if it was done meticulously as you suggest, it would have an original-like appearance. Honestly, it was just sort of an assumption of mine based on the alleged origins and spotty history of this jacket.

I traded an old Police Horsehide coat made in Massachusetts by a company called Lampert to a guy who collected mainly Old Bomber jackets (B-3s etc.) and we just each preferred the other guy's jacket so we traded. This guy had been in the fashion industry and the vintage trade and he recalled that this jacket was found at a "Rag Shop" in Los Angeles, CA (warehouse sized places where they have old clothes sold by weight and you just pick thru piles of second hand clothes and buy them cheaply wholesale.)

I suppose knowing that, I just figured it didn't come from a source to where you'd think it was recently upgraded with a re-line---especially for what it would cost these days. However, your point is a good one and it could well have been re-lined--even by its original owner back when such handywork was certainly more common and likely way more affordable. It could have been done overseas as well possibly if it is a military jacket of some sort (although it has a more civilian look overall).

I will say, its a really well done, clean job and the Corduroy is a unique kind of liner. It seems to really add a snugness to the overall fit because the corduroy texture almost grabs the material of whatever shirt you're wearing. The lining does have SOME wear around the neck area but its all totally intact.

As you say, if it's been re-lined, the prospects of identifying it grow dimmer.

Thanks for explaining further.

 

[Claybertrand]

You could very well be correct. If this jacket was professionally re-lined, perhaps even a long time ago, if it was done meticulously as you suggest, it would have an original-like appearance. Honestly, it was just sort of an assumption of mine based on the alleged origins and spotty history of this jacket.

I traded an old Police Horsehide coat made in Massachusetts by a company called Lampert to a guy who collected mainly Old Bomber jackets (B-3s etc.) and we just each preferred the other guy's jacket so we traded. This guy had been in the fashion industry and the vintage trade and he recalled that this jacket was found at a "Rag Shop" in Los Angeles, CA (warehouse sized places where they have old clothes sold by weight and you just pick thru piles of second hand clothes and buy them cheaply wholesale.)

I suppose knowing that, I just figured it didn't come from a source to where you'd think it was recently upgraded with a re-line---especially for what it would cost these days. However, your point is a good one and it could well have been re-lined--even by its original owner back when such handywork was certainly more common and likely way more affordable. It could have been done overseas as well possibly if it is a military jacket of some sort (although it has a more civilian look overall).

I will say, its a really well done, clean job and the Corduroy is a unique kind of liner. It seems to really add a snugness to the overall fit because the corduroy texture almost grabs the material of whatever shirt you're wearing. The lining does have SOME wear around the neck area but its all totally intact.

As you say, if it's been re-lined, the prospects of identifying it grow dimmer.

Thanks for explaining further.

The

 

[Claybertrand]

The

Whoops. I misspoke earlier. To correct myself, CROWN zippers became "COATS & CLARKS CROWN ZIPPERS" and not "CROWN & CRAFT"...... I gotta get my C's straight......

 

[Peacoat]

@Claybertrand I don't think it is a police jacket as it has no badge holder and no epaulets. I also think it has been relined. That will greatly reduce the chances of identification.

Whatever it is, you have a nice jacket. Congratulations and welcome to the Lounge.

 

[Claybertrand]

@Claybertrand I don't think it is a police jacket as it has no badge holder and no epaulets. I also think it has been relined. That will greatly reduce the chances of identification.

Whatever it is, you have a nice jacket. Congratulations and welcome to the Lounge.

Thank you Sir!!!!! It's looking like any potential identification of this jacket will have to be based upon its outside appearance. Even then, if it was re-lined, maybe it has also had different era zippers added as well. I think that the most distinctive features that are likely original are the Snap Down collars.

I will be keeping an eye out for Snap Down collars in hopes of some day finding identity clues.

Thanks for posting man.

 

[Gamma68]

Do the cuffs also have snap fasteners?

I have a 1970s Canadian police jacket with snap cuffs. It’s otherwise a completely different jacket, however.

 

[Seb Lucas]

Do the cuffs also have snap fasteners?

I have a 1970s Canadian police jacket with snap cuffs. It’s otherwise a completely different jacket, however.

Yes, they show up in the photo - black coated snaps.

 

[Peacoat]

This jacket has unusual collar snaps. They aren't hidden as are the ones made today. The snaps, coupled with the storm cuffs, convince me this was originally a motorcycle jacket, probably made by one of the California companies.

You mentioned you were going to send it out for cleaning and conditioning. Not sure what type of cleaning you have in mind, but if it is a professional dry cleaning establishment, I would stay away from that. If it truly needs cleaning, using Lexol Leather Cleaner (use the cleaner, not the conditioner) would do a good job without the risk of damage to the jacket. Follow that up with a coat of Pecard and you will be good to go. You seem knowledgeable about leather jackets, and certainly have done your homework on this jacket, so you probably already know all of this.

The fact that this jacket ended up in a "rag shop" in LA leads me to believe the original owner died, and his executor just wanted to dispose of his stuff.

A point of pedantic clarification: In WWII there was no "US Air Force." It was the Army Air Corps which was dissolved when the US Air Force was created in about 1948.

Good luck in finding an appropriate zipper. You will be a long time in that rabbit hole. Please let us know where your search takes you.

 

[Monitor]

I think it's Taubers.

 

[Gamma68]

I think it's Taubers.

You might be right. They were known to use snap collars (although this one has snaps below the collar).

 

[Monitor]

I'm pretty sure it's Taubers.

Check this out:
https://www.thefedoralounge.com/thr...bers-horsehide-moto-jacket-size-46-200.94892/

Not the exact same model but the chances that the two different companies made such similar jackets are very slim. Virtually every single detail, down to the angle of the pockets, is the same. Stitching & construction is identical. Inside pockets, the two snaps near the main zip, not to mention the cuffs...

I'd dare guess that the two jackets were made from the same pattern, with the one ITT possibly being a civilian version of the Police jacket.

 

[tmitchell59]

Hopefully these images will appear. I am reposting the zipper pics too. I don't want to frustrate the viewing public with pics that don't show up. Seems some people can see them and others not. I've done a search and seems I'm doing it correctly, so let me know.

This is what I meant by a Police jacket without the trim.