New Thrift Store Finds

[J. Brisbin]

I dropped by the thrift store today and picked up a couple ties that I'd seen before, but decided to pass on. I changed my mind and bought 6 or 7.

We've been having a conversation on the four-in-hand knot over in the Suits forum and that got me to thinking about ties. These ties are all tied with the 4IH knot, which is the one I use most frequently, especially with the narrower ties. I'd be interested to get your opinion on whether I should go with a shorter length and have a wider knot, or if I should stick to the pull-it-as-tight-as-you-can-get-it method I've gotten into the habit of. Anyway, the pictures:

1930s orange stripe, got from eBay (not today, but this is what I had on today for work, so thought I'd throw it in there...btw: I know the tie clip is too short, so I got a different one today at the antique store):

A Wembley ($1):

It's a LOT shorter of a tie than I usually wear. I'd be interested in getting your opinion on whether or not this look actually works for someone tall like me. Here's a close-up of it. It's a rough-feeling material.

This one's marked "Regal All Silk." What is the date on this tie, do you think?

This one's a tweed tie. Marked "Habands" Any ideas on date? It's kind of a neat tie, but a different look for me.

 

[Dinerman]

I sure like that wembley. Looks a tad short on you, but I really do like that fabric.

 

[Jay]

I think the "Regal All Silk" is a 50s number. And I think if you drop the wider side of the Wembley down a tad (probably an inch or two) it'll look better. I find I have to do this if I'm wearing newer low-waisted pants. Just make sure not to over-do it or the knot will be disproportionate to the width of the tie.
Hope this helps.

Jay

 

[Rooster]

The wembly is a fairly early tie, that's why it's so short. The fishtail on the short end gives the early date away. I wear my short early ties because I like them and don't give a damn about what other people think, especially those in pajama pants and flip flops......
I tie my shorties so the front is a bit longer, but not much, You can wear these with a suit and nobody is the wiser. You could also wear a pair of high waisted pants with those short ties, they look spot on then.
The rest of those ties are probably 50's vintage. I've noticed the width of ties follows lapel width when you're trying to date them.

By the by, I dig 50's and 60's ties and wear those too, I love all of the vintage ties, short, fat, long or skinny, they all beat what's sold and worn today!

 

[Art Fawcett]

HI Brisbin,
The first tie, the 30's tie? Are you wearing it extra long in the front? It appears to be a 50's tie to me, that's why I'm asking. The Wembley is late 30's, thus the shortness. Remember the closure was much higher in suits back then so short ties were on order.
The Regal and Haband are both late 50's early 60s and look good the way you have them knotted. BTW, summer ties ( The Haband and Wembley) are harder to find so you have a premium there!!

 

[J. Brisbin]

The first tie, the 30's tie? Are you wearing it extra long in the front? It appears to be a 50's tie to me, that's why I'm asking.

I'm pretty sure (though not positive) of the '30s date on the orange tie because I've seen that pattern (and length) in period advertisements. The small end has a definite flare, too. The wide end is several inches below the short end and the knot is really tighter than it should be with the thickness of fabric. I have a tendency to jank on them until the knot is almost too tight to pull the small end back through. It's probably not good on them, either, since it will wear the fabric quicker.

The Regal and Haband are both late 50's early 60s and look good the way you have them knotted. BTW, summer ties ( The Haband and Wembley) are harder to find so you have a premium there!!

I have a couple others that I dropped off at the dry cleaners. I'll pick those up Monday and post some pics. One of them is this very thin red silk that feels like it weighs almost nothing. It'll be interesting to see how it looks.

And on a related note: when did the top stitching on the ends of the tie go away? I've noticed that the earlier ties don't have backing all the way to the wide end and are simply folded over and hemmed, with light stitching showing on the top side of the tie. When did it change to the modern style of backing all the way to the end and no visible stitching?

 

[Art Fawcett]

when did the top stitching on the ends of the tie go away? I've noticed that the earlier ties don't have backing all the way to the wide end and are simply folded over and hemmed, with light stitching showing on the top side of the tie. When did it change to the modern style of backing all the way to the end and no visible stitching?

Actually you can find ties all the way back to the late 1800s without top stitching so I wouldn't use that as a difinitive dating method. In the teens & 20's neckties ( as we know them today) were completely stitched together inside out and thus wouldn't relax when taken off AND showed no stitching. Thats why when you find a 20's tie they will usually be left tied and only loosened enough to get them over your head. Once in a while you can find dead stock, but not often. The "slip" stitch holding the back of the tie together was invented in 1930 so they then had to put some backing in to sew the stitch to. The slip stitch allowed the tie to relax after wearing and return to it's original shape. Huge step forward but the backing only had to be as long as the rear seam. By the mid forties ( post WWII) when fabric was more readily available some companies started backing them with rayon or silk and "theme" ties started appearing. The first of them was a Wembley called "Game Birds"(1946) From there all bets were off with the necktie competition. The silk or rayon backing allowed the tie to be sewn inside out, thus ending the need for top stitching. Although I can't say what year but my best guess would be 1946-50 when the top stitching of the 30s disappeared almost completely.

 

[Baron Kurtz]

That wembley is cool. I have a couple made of Priestley's Nor-East fabric "non-crush" myself. Though they feel terrible, they tie great knots.

bk

 

[J. Brisbin]

Actually you can find ties all the way back to the late 1800s without top stitching so I wouldn't use that as a difinitive dating method....

This is fantastic historical information. Thanks a bunch!

 

[Art Fawcett]

For almost 20 years I was blessed to be in the vintage clothing biz Brisbin, with neckties being one of my passions. In the process of retiring a couple of years ago I sold over 5000 ties from stock and half of my personal collection ( about 600 ) so I now have only about 300 and those are put away ( still packed) but eventually will be bringing some out as time allows. There isn't nearly enough info about dating and timelines so what I offer is more hands on experience, knowledge in the rough so to speak. I was lucky enough to be mentored by some well known and experienced men in that field.

 

[Undertow]

Gosh, you know, I've given away quite a few of my grandfather's ties and not thought anything of it. Generally they were ugly (IMO), too small (Wembley) or I simply didn't like them.

Ha! I probably gave away a fortune! :eusa_doh:

Next time I decide to give some ties away, I'll let you guys know!

 

[dhermann1]

That Wembley is interesting. I have one or two of a similar size and shape (one of which now has a MOTH HOLE!!! BOO!). I always assumed they were early 40's, but I saw a Kirk Douglas film "Detective Story" in which he wears a very short wide tie throughout, with very high waisted trousers. I wondered when I saw it if that just meant that he was just a working stiff with an out of date tie, but I've seen other men in that exact era with similar ties. The fly in the ointment with movies is that in real life people wear clothes of all eras. Some people have all new, but most have stuff of varying ages. So it's hard to tell exactly just from the age of a movie how up to date the clothes are.
If you want to look right in that tie, maybe a pair of those Indie Magnoli "Hollywood waistline" trousers should be acquired.

 

[Feraud]

Douglas in Detective Story.
A great film too.

 

[dhermann1]

Douglas in Detective Story.
A great film too.

Geez. You're so good it's scarey. See you Saturday!
Actually, the tie doesn't look so short in this shot. . . . . .