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Old Fashioned Men

PA Dancer

A-List Customer
Messages
313
Location
North East Pennsylvania
While browsing around the Powder Room, I cam across a thread about old fashioned men, and it got me thinking.
A lot of ladies out there dream of having that old fashioned man in thier life.
So we are lucky when we find you since you are all so far and few between.

I have a question for the old fashioned men of our forum.

Do you find yourselves ever being taken advantage of because you are old fashioned, or well mannered?

Examples

Being expected to pay, when the woman doesn't even offer to chip in at least for the tip in a resturant, or maybe you bought the tickets to a movie, she should buy the goobers, the popcorn or the drinks.

Opening a door. Have you ever had a woman just sit or stand there waiting for you to open the door?

I am a firm believer in please, thank you and may I.

What do you do in these situations when you feel you are being taken advantage of?

For the ladies of the lounge: Are or were any of you guily of taking advantage of these types of kindnesses realizing it or not?
 

Starius

Practically Family
Messages
698
Location
Neverwhere, Iowa
In the grand scheme of things, I don't really consider myself a "old-fashioned" man. (I think I'm more of a progressive person with an appreciation for retro ideals.)

But one thing I've always done without thinking is holding a door open for others as they pass through. This most often occurs for me when I go to the mall. If I'm coming in or leaving, I often hold the door open for someone else who is coming or going. A couple times now, I think, when I've held the door open for young ladies they don't even acknowledge the gesture in any way.
It doesn't really bother me personally though, I'd hold the door just the same no matter if I knew the reaction (or lack thereof) or not.

Incidentally, I imagine I'm the kind of guy who could get easily walked over. Since I've been unemployed for awhile, I've done a lot of freelance stuff. Fixing computer issues, a little photography, etc. I never charge much, because I seem to have a problem asking for money or charging in any way. In every instance, people have paid me more than I've asked for because they think I'm not charging enough. I suppose I'm lucky I live in a area where the majority believes in doing right by others. Even so, I've done some free work here and there. I think it's a self-esteem issue really.
I only mention this, because I wonder if the lack of response from the young ladies in my example above was due to esteem issues. Or maybe they don't have manners. I don't know. I prefer to assume the positive in people though.
 

Gary Crumrine

One of the Regulars
Messages
124
Location
Southwest
To answer your questions one-at-a-time ...

I never expected a lady to pay for an invitation. Her company was sufficient.

I no longer open doors for women. I stopped when they stopped saying "thank you".

I understand that sometimes I'll sometimes be taken advantage of in one way or another. It's the tax one pays for gracious living. On the other hand, the tax a woman pays for taking advantage of a gentleman is the loss of a continuing relationship. One tax is temporary, and the other is permanent.
 

Harp

I'll Lock Up
Messages
8,508
Location
Chicago, IL US
Gary Crumrine said:
To answer your questions one-at-a-time ...

I never expected a lady to pay for an invitation. Her company was sufficient.

I no longer open doors for women. I stopped when they stopped saying "thank you".

I understand that sometimes I'll sometimes be taken advantage of in one way or another. It's the tax one pays for gracious living. On the other hand, the tax a woman pays for taking advantage of a gentleman is the loss of a continuing relationship. One tax is temporary, and the other is permanent.


I still open doors for women, a habitual courtesy. Agree to all the rest, well said, sir. :)
 

Foofoogal

Banned
Messages
4,884
Location
Vintage Land
Being expected to pay, when the woman doesn't even offer to chip in at least for the tip in a resturant, or maybe you bought the tickets to a movie, she should buy the goobers, the popcorn or the drinks.

Being old fashioned and married to an old fashioned guy the old fashioned people I know would be appalled to think the guy would expect the lady to pay for anything. Had lots of beaus before I was married and would of dropped a man like a rock if he would of even hinted such a thing. No guilt at all. It was just the way it was.
We will be married 32 years on August 9th. coming up in 2 days. :eusa_clap ;) lol
 

Paisley

I'll Lock Up
Messages
5,439
Location
Indianapolis
My brother-in-law was, and is, an old-fashioned man with wonderful manners. You wouldn't think it to see him, but he's loyal, considerate and sensitive. As for being taken advantage of, let's just say he deserves a medal for having been married to my sister.
 

Matt Noir

One of the Regulars
Messages
134
Location
Wichita, Kansas
I embrace being an old fashioned chap. I was raised in house with all women and no father figure. My mom is an antiques dealer and I grew up in an old farmhouse (built in the 1800's) in rural Pennsylvania. I am not sure if it came from that environment...but I always have treated everyone with the utmost respect unless they did not warrant said respect.

I have never been taken advantage of for my old fashioned ways and manners. Although I thought I was madly in love with a girl in my early 20's - but she eventually broke my heart because she said that I was "too nice" and she wanted a "bad boy". I tried to be an a$$h*le just to please her - but it was so forced, fake and unnatural that I could not do it for long and she didn't buy it at all.

I always hold the door for a lady - I always give up my seat for a lady, a child or the elderly. I let people with more groceries than I have get in front of me - If I invite someone out to dinner I always pick up the tab - I always walk with a lady so that I am closest to the street.

The only issue I have ever experienced are ones where some women are upset and even indignant when I hold the door open for them. I was once told by a woman, "I don't need you to hold the door for me. I don't need any man because I am a strong, independant woman." I was taken aback by that - I held the desire to loose my tongue and say, "Well then don't let the door hit ya where the Good Lord split ya".


I am by no means perfect (I am perfectly flawed) but I am perfectly happy with who I am as a man. And if someone views my kindness, generosity and manners as a weakness to be taken advantage of - so be it. How people treat you is their karma; how you react is yours.
 
Matt Noir said:
The only issue I have ever experienced are ones where some women are upset and even indignant when I hold the door open for them. I was once told by a woman, "I don't need you to hold the door for me. I don't need any man because I am a strong, independant woman." I was taken aback by that - I held the desire to loose my tongue and say, "Well then don't let the door hit ya where the Good Lord split ya".

You to eh? I thought that only happened out here.
I just told her to go back out the door so I could slam it. :rolleyes: Some people.
That is about the only time I felt not taken advantage of but insulted in a good way. Kind of the old consider the source routine. ;)

Regards,

J
 

hargist

One of the Regulars
Messages
200
Location
Los Angeles
I'm a modern guy who likes classic style. I prefer not to think of my manners as old fashioned. I think there are good manners and bad manners, and it's a shame that we think of good manners as old fashioned.

Having said that, I think there must be recognition that today's standards of what is polite is a little different than it used to be. For example, it used to be that a woman would never pay for ANYTHING on a date. This of course was the custom because women didn't work, or if they did, they made far less than men. Women are independent now and have their own careers. Indeed, I've dated women whose incomes were more than mine. However, if I ask her on a date, I pay. That's good manners.

I have to say that I do appreciate it when a woman offers to pay something, if only the tip. I always decline, but I do appreciate the offer. I also think that it is good manners for women to offer to pay once in a while, especially after repeated dates.

Who pays also depends on who asked for the date. It is perfectly fine for a woman to pay if she asks the guy out. I may offer to pay anyway because it is customary, but she is also free to insist because she is a modern independent woman.

Ultimately, manners is about being thoughtful and not a "one size fits all" rule. If I continue dating a woman who has her own career and we become a couple, and if she never offers to pay for a date, then that's rude.

As for opening doors, that's easy. I open them for everyone, men and women alike. Not everyone says thank you, but it's nice when they do. Yes, on occasion I have had a women wait for me to open the door for her, usually because she got there first, and usually that happens only on a formal date. I don't mind because I want to anyway. I've also had women open doors for me and I thank them for it.
 

Matt Noir

One of the Regulars
Messages
134
Location
Wichita, Kansas
I try and live by the words - Time may change but standards must remain.

I do agree with you, Hargist. I do not think manners should be considered old fashioned. And I may be going off on a tangent here...but...

Go to the grocery store or department store and watch the checkout kids - They rarely acknowledge the customer, smile or say thank you. In fact, most times they will be talking with one another and just going through the motions as they scan your items. I have even had many of the checkout clerks talk on their personal cell phones with friends in language inappropriate for the public.

I am by no means prudish - I can roll and tumble with the best of 'em. I just think that manners should not be a thing of the past and that they have evolved with the times. A woman insisting on paying and me accepting is fine - certain things do evolve. But holding the door - opening the door - actually listening when people talk - being polite - these things should not have a linear timeline in which they were good way back when but are no longer needed today.

Just one man's humble opinion.
 

Rooster

Practically Family
Messages
917
Location
Iowa
Golly, you mean there are ladies out there that will pay for part of a date..... ?never ran across one myself.
 

Viola

Call Me a Cab
Messages
2,469
Location
NSW, AUS
I tend to think whoever asked the other person out should pay, though even when I'm asked I offer to cover SOMETHING usually. And when we start out going one place and then afterwards end up at somewhere else I don't let him pay for something random.

Like once a date and I went mini-golfing and then to a bookstore; the golfing was his idea and he paid, but I certainly didn't let him buy me the gardening book I couldn't resist picking up.
 

Bebop

Practically Family
Messages
951
Location
Sausalito, California
Times have changed and women can sometimes make more money than the men they date. It sounds like the reason men payed in the past is because they were the ones with the loot. Now it is much more equal in terms of earning power. You can still be old fashioned and be with the times. I open doors for everyone. I don't do it for a "thank you" or a smile. I just do it. It's like coming to an intersection and letting the car that got there a couple of seconds after you , go first. Just common, public courtesy. If someone tells me I don't have to open the door for them, I just say "Ok", walk in first and move on to open the next door.
 

Miss Neecerie

I'll Lock Up
Messages
6,616
Location
The land of Sinatra, Hoboken
And Conversely, just because one wears a suit, or portends to be old fashioned or likes vintage...means -zip- in the grander scheme of actions and manners.

There are an awful lot of well dressed men that have none of the old fashioned manners and treat people terribly.


Judge a book by it's contents and not it's cover.
 

PA Dancer

A-List Customer
Messages
313
Location
North East Pennsylvania
I make sure I always say "Thank you so much" when someone holds a door for me. I especially make a fuss when it's a young boy who held the door. I'll follow up that thank you with a "you are such a gentleman" or say something to the parent like "aww, he's so polite"

I believe that even random strangers can influence someones life. Maybe that boy will grow up and realize that people do appreciate the random acts of kindness.

The other part to my post response is:
What if you are NOT on a date. Just a meeting with a friend.

My last encounter meeting was going to a diner for french fries and gravy.
The guy wouldn't pick up the bill laying on the table until after I touched it.
We walked up to the register to pay. I handed him money...then he wanted to walk out the door without leaving a tip, after I had just put money down on the table.
(They say you can always tell a man by how he treats a waitress.)
...and I admit..this was a potential dating prospect....but I lost interest right away because he didn't tip the waitress until I had said something.
 

Paisley

I'll Lock Up
Messages
5,439
Location
Indianapolis
PA Dancer said:
My last encounter meeting was going to a diner for french fries and gravy.
The guy wouldn't pick up the bill laying on the table until after I touched it.
We walked up to the register to pay. I handed him money...then he wanted to walk out the door without leaving a tip, after I had just put money down on the table.
(They say you can always tell a man by how he treats a waitress.)
...and I admit..this was a potential dating prospect....but I lost interest right away because he didn't tip the waitress until I had said something.

That was an inexpensive learning experience.
 

hargist

One of the Regulars
Messages
200
Location
Los Angeles
PA Dancer said:
My last encounter meeting was going to a diner for french fries and gravy.
The guy wouldn't pick up the bill laying on the table until after I touched it.
We walked up to the register to pay. I handed him money...then he wanted to walk out the door without leaving a tip, after I had just put money down on the table.
(They say you can always tell a man by how he treats a waitress.)
...and I admit..this was a potential dating prospect....but I lost interest right away because he didn't tip the waitress until I had said something.

Sorry, this guy sounds like a loser. I mean, even though you say you two were out as friends, you also said that he was a potential dating prospect. I suspect that he was thinking the same thing. If he wanted to make any kind of positive impression, he could have picked up the bill. It was only fries and gravy! And he didn't want to leave a tip??? Stay away. Far away.

Maybe he was trying to be attractive by being a bad boy, making you pursue him. You know, reverse psychology. If that's the case, he thought wrong.
 

PA Dancer

A-List Customer
Messages
313
Location
North East Pennsylvania
Miss Neecerie said:
And Conversely, just because one wears a suit, or portends to be old fashioned or likes vintage...means -zip- in the grander scheme of actions and manners.

There are an awful lot of well dressed men that have none of the old fashioned manners and treat people terribly.


Judge a book by it's contents and not it's cover.

Agreed the players come in all kinds of sheeps clothing.
 

Undertow

My Mail is Forwarded Here
Messages
3,126
Location
Des Moines, IA, US
*In steps the jerk*

I'm of the mind that women are on the same playing field as men. Given that mindset, I simply don't offer to pay for women every time I go out.

In fact, before I go out, I make sure to specify my payment arrangement as either, "Would you like to visit the X Cafe, my treat?" or "I was thinking we could go dutch at the X Cafe, what do you think?" If she refuses to let me pay, or if she thinks I'm being cheap by going dutch, I don't make a charade of the ordeal and simply offer an alternative.

I observe many of the other courtesies expected of an old fashioned gentleman. I am also often looked at in terror when observing them. Holding doors for women usually means I'm a maniac, donning my hat insinuates I'm a bigot and wearing a suit to ANY formal function means I'm egotistical.

Although people may not accept these customs, I still observe them. All but the money. I spend $14/wk on milk, $140/mnth on gasoline, $250+ a month to warm my home to 56deg in the winter months, etc, and I don't quite have the means to go out often as it is. Although Chivalry may not be dead, an independent woman's ability to pay her share isn't either. I like the company of women, but when you're as poor as I am, you don't mind being alone.
 

hargist

One of the Regulars
Messages
200
Location
Los Angeles
If you can't afford to always pay for a date, then there's nothing wrong with that because you make things clear before you go out. If a girl balks at going dutch, then you're probably better off without her because she's either caught up in "how things should be" or she wants a free meal. Ultimately, you want someone who just wants to spend time with you.
 

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