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On giving your opinions of photographs showing fellow Loungers wearing their new hats

MattJH

One Too Many
Messages
1,388
I love The Fedora Lounge. It's a daily visit for me, now, and I genuinely enjoy conversing with people on here. It's one of the few places left on the Internet where literacy, clear dialogue, and courtesy are encouraged, sometimes to the point of being mandatory, and that's fine with me. What I've found, though, is that this breeds a bit of a "fluff" in the dialogue, and while that's well and good, sometimes meaning gets lost or intentionally circumvented along the way due to fear of offense.

There is nothing wrong with constructive criticism, but I rarely see it. I personally would love to see more! When I post a photograph of myself wearing a newly-acquired hat, it's not because I'm fishing for compliments (and I think I can speak for most people when I say that... I think!). I'm looking for criticism. If it looks disproportionate, odd, unfit, inappropriate, or just plain bad, I sincerely want to be told that. Just because a hat is exceptionally handsome doesn't automatically mean that it makes the person wearing it handsome. "Beautiful hat!" and "That hat looks great on you!" mean two completely different things. And if the hat looks great? By all means, rain down the praise! Haha. Let's not be shy; we all know we love it. But only if it's true. If it's not, it's misleading and breeds further purchases for hats that we probably shouldn't be attempting to pull off.

What I end up seeing, between the lines, is people biting their tongues in responses to threads where opinions are requested. Sometimes, the bush is beat around. Not once have I ever seen a response that said "You know, that hat actually doesn't work on you at all, because [...] so instead, you should try [...]" We all know that if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all, and that's one of many good mantras to live by. What about being constructively critical, though? However, what you'll often see are replies along the lines of "You should try a wider brim and a higher crown and a bigger size and a different color altogether, but the hat looks GREAT on you! :eusa_clap :eusa_clap :eusa_clap" I'm exaggerating, of course, but I don't think this helps the wearer! :)

I'll reflect back a bit -- just over two years ago, I acquired my first vintage hat, a velour Stetson Charger from the 70's. Very stingy brim, braided band. I posted a photograph of me wearing it (the photograph is long gone, sorry) and the compliments poured in, and while I absolutely appreciated it, I was definitely being humored with the best of intentions, because it just looked awful. Haha. I mean, seriously, I just looked totally ridiculous and had no business stepping foot outside with that thing on my head... but The Fedora Lounge community was the experts and they said I looked great, so I thought it was just me having to adjust to the hat. No. The hat was ugly on me, and I was ugly in the hat.

This post also counts as constructive criticism, too, I suppose, as it's also directed at me -- I am guilty of the above at times. So, I'm going to make a vow to myself; when I see somebody post a picture of themselves wearing a hat and I think it looks fantastic, I'm going to say so. If it doesn't look fantastic, I'm going to offer suggestions. I'm not going to be impolite, abrasive, offensive, or cruel. There is no place for that here. I also make no assertions that I'm some sort of licensed hat-wearing judge (we all know who the experts are), just that I'll offer my own opinion earnestly, as long as the poster is asking for opinions.

This is with the understanding, too, that a full-body photograph isn't exactly everything you need to decide whether or not a hat works for somebody. So does their demeanor, their attitude, their gait, their posture, their height, their weight, their skin tone, and their general way of life. Unfortunately, there isn't yet an invention to reflect these qualities online (at least not accurately!), so we'll have to make do.

Above and beyond anything, though, by being part of the more learned community in the field of hat-wearing, I would say that it's actually our duty and responsibility to make alternate suggestions when appropriate and when asked. After all, if we don't, who will?

So am I the black sheep, or are my sentiments shared by some? I'm okay with being the former, so long as everyone knows that this post isn't intended to stir anything up, ruffle feathers, or go against the grain just for the sake of going against the grain... just to communicate ideas, that's all. I honestly think that constructive criticism, being given while bearing in mind that some skin is thinner than others, will improve the confidence of the wearer rather than damage it. As long as we're being asked, it's our role!

I like you all, so sometimes my mouth runs. :eek:
 

J.T.Marcus

Call Me a Cab
Messages
2,354
Location
Mineola, Texas
Dumbjaw, Your argument was so convincing that I immediately went looking for pictures of you in your hats, so I could deliver what you were earnestly urging us to do. I searched in vain, for quite some time. All I could find was this:

Dumbjaw said:
Apologies. I just don't like to post images of my face on the internet. It's a career-based thing. Send me a PM if you'd like to see them, though!

May I offer a little constructive criticism, as you so eloquently urged? If you want to pull the trigger, you have to take your turn at being the target. I say that with a :) .
 

MattJH

One Too Many
Messages
1,388
Point taken! I always do post pictures of myself in new hats, but they don't stay up for longer than a week. I'll offer four right now, but without embedding them in the thread:

Adam Executive
Akubra Federation IV Standard
Bott Tropic Weight (house brand from Cincinnati)
Stetson Whippet

It's a total coincidence that they're all grey -- they're the first four I found. These won't stay up for longer than a week, though, sorry! The Whippet is actually my least favorite, and I just sold it on eBay as I didn't like the proportions despite it being a sought-after vintage model.
 

Tango Yankee

Call Me a Cab
Messages
2,433
Location
Lucasville, OH
The elephant in the room?

Well, Dumbjaw, you've done it again... gone and pointed out the elephant in the room! :eusa_doh:

We are indeed a bunch of enablers. We want to encourage new hat wearers and we try very hard to avoid giving someone an experience like Aldocello's. If someone is new to the board we don't have a feel for the person and how they might react to criticism (no matter how well intentioned) so in general the oblique approach is used. You've already described that technique.

Some are a bit more forward than others but there's not a lot of blunt assessments going out. Is that a bad thing? Not necessarily but I'll agree that telling someone a hat looks great on them when it doesn't isn't a good idea, either. Again, that's where the "beating around the bush" comes in. It's an attempt to gently guide the individual towards the "right" viewpoint or to atl least get them to see things in terms of facial structure/brim width, etc.

Of course, we all have our own blinders on concerning our beloved hats. It's been commented on before at how negatively some seem to view stingy brims and/or short crowns. You'll probably be able to find posts where people who are wearing such hats and look terrific in them are being told to go with a wider brim/taller crown.

In general, I think that anyone who hangs around here for any length of time will pick up on the various clues and eventually figure out for themselves what's right for them. I know I did. I also know that for many the encouragement they get here gives them the additional boost they may need to get out and wear that hat they're not sure of (even if it does look great on them) in public.

On the other hand, those of us who've been around a while are known to each other and so it may be easier to give (and to receive) more direct comments and observations.

So yes, constructive advice about what works and what doesn't about a particular hat on a particular head is a good thing... but I imagine such will continue to be tempered with concern for the other's feelings.

Regards,
Tom
 

Tampahound

One of the Regulars
Messages
100
Location
Tampa, Florida
I agree...but...

DJ I agree with the basic principle of your post wholeheartedly. My concern is the somewhat impersonal nature of a post. Frank honesty can be brutal at times. As long as people remember to be polite, not hurtful in their criticism all will go well. I too want an honest opinion about how a hat looks on me, but I want to be let down gently!

I also tend to like how hats look on people because I like hats! :p

The hardest thing for some people will be: to remember, when criticized, that criticisms are really help and support from other loungers.[huh]
 

metropd

One Too Many
Messages
1,764
Location
North America
Tampahound said:
DJ I agree with the basic principle of your post wholeheartedly. My concern is the somewhat impersonal nature of a post. Frank honesty can be brutal at times. As long as people remember to be polite, not hurtful in their criticism all will go well. I too want an honest opinion about how a hat looks on me, but I want to be let down gently!

I also tend to like how hats look on people because I like hats! :p

The hardest thing for some people will be: to remember, when criticized, that criticisms are really help and support from other loungers.[huh]

I agree. Sometimes I don't know if Fedora loungers are telling me the truth or just being polite. I was very happy that people told me my original Borsalino Trifino looked bad on me because it was too small and it was poorly creased. I gave that hat away for free. I never lost my temper and was quite pleased with people's honesty and constructive criticism.
 

ScionPI2005

Call Me a Cab
Messages
2,335
Location
Seattle, Washington
I agree with your post here, DJ. I only hope that the majority of individuals who post pictures of themselves in their hats will be open to any and all constructive criticism, though I already believe this is probably the case. I would include myself in the group of people that would prefer to have someone diplomatically tell me my hat doesn't look right, than to go about in public thinking I just need to get used to it. As long as any constructive criticism can be given diplomatically, and I don't see why that would be a problem with the majority of this community, I think we should be fine.
 

Michaelshane

One Too Many
Messages
1,928
Location
Land of Enchantment
I've been wearing hats so long I don't care what anyone thinks about how I look.I just post pictures because I like taking pictures,and I like to show my hats to people who like hats.I think everyone looks good in a hat.
 

MattJH

One Too Many
Messages
1,388
metropd said:
I agree. Sometimes I don't know if Fedora loungers are telling me the truth or just being polite.

I'm pretty sure the showers of praise you get are 100% genuine. You stand out.
 

carter

I'll Lock Up
Messages
5,921
Location
Corsicana, TX
Personally, I agree with Dumbjaw, but ... I'm more prone to not comment than to leave a non-constructive comment. If I have constructive criticism, I'll leave it, otherwise I'll remain silent.
Please bear in mind the fact that I've been known to post some pretty silly pictures and have no expectation of glowing support for everything I post. There should be some joy in this hobby of ours.
Stetson Continental, Green Variant of VS Rt. 66, Roadkill

1819214606_6e276409e2_m.jpg
1819194292_cec4369deb_m.jpg
2929674213_68fa450ee5_m.jpg
 

Carlisle Blues

My Mail is Forwarded Here
Messages
3,154
Location
Beautiful Horse Country
I agree with Carter. If I have something to add I will do so otherwise I would be dishonest. There is no point.

With the feedback I have been given I accepted it at face value and relied upon it. Hope I was not wrong to do so.;)
 

J.T.Marcus

Call Me a Cab
Messages
2,354
Location
Mineola, Texas
carter said:
Personally, I agree with Dumbjaw, but ... I'm more prone to not comment than to leave a non-constructive comment. If I have constructive criticism, I'll leave it, otherwise I'll remain silent.
Please bear in mind the fact that I've been known to post some pretty silly pictures and have no expectation of glowing support for everything I post. There should be some joy in this hobby of ours.
Stetson Continental, Green Variant of VS Rt. 66, Roadkill

1819214606_6e276409e2_m.jpg
1819194292_cec4369deb_m.jpg
2929674213_68fa450ee5_m.jpg

carter, Those were SILLY pictures??? I actually like the first and the last! [huh] :D
 

Lefty

I'll Lock Up
Messages
8,639
Location
O-HI-O
I've always kept compliments to a minimum - here and in "real life". Sometimes, people are kind of put off by the fact that I don't comment on something, but when I do offer praise, they know I'm being genuinely appreciative.
 

MattJH

One Too Many
Messages
1,388
Carter, you've definitely made me laugh before.

(And the third one is your best look, definitely.)
 

just_me

Practically Family
Messages
723
Location
Florida
I tend not to post anything if I don't like a hat on the person posting the picture. For the most part I think that pictures of loungers wearing stingy hats are not particularly attractive. In my opinion, most of the stingy hats make the guys' heads look huge with a little hat on their big heads. :) I think those same guys look much better when they post pictures where they're wearing larger brimmed fedoras. I don't usually criticize because I figure it's just my opinion of stingy brimmed hats and I don't want to hurt anyone's feelings.

Don't ask what I think of westerns and homburgs.
lol lol lol
 

Lefty

I'll Lock Up
Messages
8,639
Location
O-HI-O
If we're going with general statements of things that people shouldn't do, my top of the list is the slant.

Douglas can do it.
You can't.
Please stop.
 

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