Palm Beach Neckties

Discussion in 'General Attire & Accoutrements' started by Dinerman, May 16, 2013.

  1. Dinerman

    Dinerman Super Moderator Bartender

    Messages:
    10,562
    Location:
    Bozeman, MT
    Since the question was brought up over in the "Fedora Lounge Guide to Palm Beach Cloth" thread, I thought that Palm Beach ties should have their own thread, separate from the "Show us Your Ties" thread. I'd especially like to see the labels, to try to piece together a chronology of the company, in relation to that of the fabric manufacturer.

    Beau Brummell of Cincinnati, OH, introduced Palm Beach cloth neckties in 1936. The 4 fold patent was granted in 1938.
    While the Goodall Sanford mills, producers of Palm Beach cloth stopped producing the fabric c.1956, Beau Brummel continued producing neckties under the Palm Beach name well into the 1960s. It is possible that they bought fabric from Burlington Mills/Burlington industries on a limited basis. It's more likely that they continued the licensing agreement they had with Goodall Sanford Palm Beach with the Cincinnati based Palm Beach clothing company, which bought the rights to the name after the fabric mills were bought out.

    Dating conventions of the fabric (see other thread, linked above) should hold true for the neckties.
    1936-1944 should say "Goodall"
    1944- should say "Goodall Sanford"
    1949 - should have an (R) symbol, as does the one below

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2013
  2. Feraud

    Feraud Bartender

    Messages:
    17,193
    Location:
    Hardlucksville, NY
    Here are a few-
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2013
  3. DamianM

    DamianM Vendor

    Messages:
    2,055
    Location:
    Los Angeles
    ^^^^hey hey hey.. I'd like to see the ties design as well:)
     
  4. Feraud

    Feraud Bartender

    Messages:
    17,193
    Location:
    Hardlucksville, NY
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  5. Feraud

    Feraud Bartender

    Messages:
    17,193
    Location:
    Hardlucksville, NY
    I added additional pics but am not digging them out of my closet for measurements! ;)
     
  6. Dinerman

    Dinerman Super Moderator Bartender

    Messages:
    10,562
    Location:
    Bozeman, MT
    Last edited: May 16, 2013
  7. DamianM

    DamianM Vendor

    Messages:
    2,055
    Location:
    Los Angeles
    Yeah tell me about it.

    Thanks for the additional images.

    They designs do speak of warm weather
     
  8. skyvue

    skyvue Call Me a Cab

    Messages:
    2,221
    Location:
    New York City
    Feraud, I sincerely wish you a long, happy life, but just in case you do get hit by a bus or something, would you see to it at your earliest convenience that I am cited in your last will and testament as the recipient of your Palm Beach ties?

    Thanks in advance.
     
  9. Dinerman

    Dinerman Super Moderator Bartender

    Messages:
    10,562
    Location:
    Bozeman, MT
    Here's a rough chronology of labels. With all these labels, there are variant versions in different color schemes, or with slightly different detailing, so keep that in mind.

    1937-c.1939
    [​IMG]

    1939-1944. Patent RE20942 granted on Dec. 9, 1938. Bottom of tag has store name.
    [​IMG]

    1944-1950. Same as 1939-44 variant, but with the inclusion of the newly changed mill name, "Goodall Sanford".
    [​IMG]

    1950s. Redesigned logo with (R) mark reflects the change in the Palm Beach Cloth label used in suits, which switched over c.1949. Ads from 1950 still show the previous variant, so this one likely started being used around 1951.
    [​IMG]

    1953. Changed to include new patents from 1945 and 1948. Reads "Mfr. of cloth" instead of "woven only by"
    [​IMG]

    References Goodall Sanford Inc., but only as the owner of the trademark "Palm Beach", not as the producer of Palm Beach cloth.
    [​IMG]

    No longer references Goodall Sanford.
    [​IMG]

    1960s.
    No longer is Goodall Sanford mentioned, defunct since c.1955. Name has been licensed from the Cincinnati-based second-generation Palm Beach company, and tie is made from 60% polyester, 40% rayon
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: May 17, 2013
  10. herringbonekid

    herringbonekid I'll Lock Up

    Messages:
    6,022
    Location:
    East Sussex, England
    good work Dinerman.

    what about pre '36 labels ?
     
  11. We can get Floey to tell use what it's made of:

    [​IMG]
     
  12. Dinerman

    Dinerman Super Moderator Bartender

    Messages:
    10,562
    Location:
    Bozeman, MT
    Prior to '31, the Goodall mills were selling Palm Beach fabric to whoever would buy it, and the labels for a necktie produced from that fabric would be the same as would be in any other Palm Beach cloth garment. (See the guide thread for those). I can't tell if many were produced- while good for suiting, the material proved difficult to work with for neckwear.

    In '31, they switched over to tailoring all their own products for the most part, and gave the contract to produce neckties to Cohn, Roth & Stiffsen of New York, Franc, Strohmenger & Cowan of New York, and Hewes & Potter of Boston. None produced ties from Palm Beach Cloth in any notable quantity. (source) Cluett Peabody (Arrow Ties) had rejected the fabric.

    The 1936 contract with the Weisbaum Bros., Brower Company, Cincinnati (producers of Beau Brummell neckties) gave them the exclusive right to produce Palm Beach Cloth neckties.
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2013
  13. herringbonekid

    herringbonekid I'll Lock Up

    Messages:
    6,022
    Location:
    East Sussex, England
    thanks Dinerman,

    i must say i'm surprised that Beau Brummell didn't begin til 1936; i would have thought some of the BB designs i've seen are earlier than that.
    anyone have a 1920s Palm Beach tie ? better yet, a 1920s Palm Beach tie they want to sell ?
     
  14. Dinerman

    Dinerman Super Moderator Bartender

    Messages:
    10,562
    Location:
    Bozeman, MT
    From what I've seen, very few pre- Brummell Palm Beach ties were produced. It was difficult to work with in neckwear until the "4-fold" construction which Beau Brummell used came along. For Arrow ties to have been offered the exclusive contract to produce PB cloth ties and reject it I think is telling.

    By the '40s, there was a different composition for Palm Beach cloth used in neckties than there was for Palm Beach cloth used in suiting. It adjusted the proportions a bit, and included a greater proportion of Rayon, and a component of Nylon, to make it more suitable to that application.
     
  15. skyvue

    skyvue Call Me a Cab

    Messages:
    2,221
    Location:
    New York City
    I thought I had two Palm Beach ties, but it turns out the other is made of 100% virgin wool.

    So here's the only one I own. I get loads of compliments on it every time I wear it.

    [​IMG]
     
  16. Two Types

    Two Types I'll Lock Up

    Messages:
    5,456
    Location:
    London, UK
    Splendid thread. Thanks for starting this, Dinerman. The information is most interesting and the ties are rather nice.
     
  17. Feraud

    Feraud Bartender

    Messages:
    17,193
    Location:
    Hardlucksville, NY
    This isn't the first request I've received to be included in my will for the distribution of my vintage collection! At this rate I may have more people at the reading of the will than the wake. ;)
     
  18. Cricket

    Cricket Practically Family

    Messages:
    520
    Location:
    Mississippi
    Looking over this advertisement from 1950, I really like the third one from the left. It makes me smile :)
    Perhaps a great Father's Day present? I am sure the hubby could use one :)

    palmbeach.jpg
     

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.