Raising Children--Retro in a Modern World

[VintageJess]

Hi everyone. I am new and very much enjoying reading over all of the wonderful conversations here. There is truly a wealth of knowledge...

So I ask for your input, thoughts, comments, suggestions on raising children in today's world yet instilling them with good old fashioned manners, common sense, morals, and decency. My husband and I are the proud parents of a fifteen month old son, and sometimes we almost feel like it will be necessary to run away to some remote village or farm to protect him from all of the pressures and ills of today's modern world.

I guess I am specifically talking about situations where "old fashioned" or retro-style parenting can put you at odds with the rest of the modern world--especially schools and other parents. For instance, limiting TV, computer and video games to force the kids to go outside to play when just about everything else in our society encourages us to become more and more "plugged in."

Another example--I take my son to a playgroup once a week. It is standard practice that the children call the mothers by first names, preceeded with a Miss. So, I would be "Miss Jessica" to them. As far as I can tell, this seems to be fairly common, even in preschools. Perhaps they assume first names are easier for children to say, or maybe there are just so many divorces now that it is difficult to know who is Mrs. or Ms.? I'm not quite sure, but I do not want my son to grow up thinking that it is okay to call adults (basically just acquaintances) by their first names. It should be Mrs. Jones, or Mr. Smith...Certainly I can teach him that in our home, but then there are adults that act almost offended by this practice. How do you handle situations such as that?

These are just small examples, but hopefully you understand what I am getting at. Any books or other resources that have helped you? Has integrating children into a retro lifestyle helped at all?

Thanks again,
Jessica <---Wishing she could turn the clock back to the "good old days" where kids could just be kids.

 

[Etienne]

Hi, Jessica,

Your inquiry touched my heart with its sincerity. It's a huge responsibility to raise children and it's very challenging in today's world. My own are grown and gone (I'm the ancient one of the FL!!) and I'm sure anything I might offer here will seem old-fashioned and outdated...but, the one thing I'd like to say is that you and your husband have to have confidence in how you want to raise your kids. Forget about the other mothers or dads who disapprove of what you do--follow your own good judgement (and it sounds like you have a lot of that!). Be cheerful, happy and confident--and consistent in what you want to achieve. My husband and I have been married 33 years, and every step of the way in child-rearing we met resistance from someone at some point--schools, other kids, parents--but we were determined to raise our children with appropriate boundaries and expectations.

Spend lots of time with your children! Every moment with them is an opportunity to gently teach them, guide them, and encourage them in the things you want them to learn. I would never trade one moment of the years we enjoyed raising our kids. They have always been, and continue to be, an enormous joy and blessing to us--worth every skirmish with the outside world!

 

[jamespowers]

Etienne, that is some great advice.
I can pass on a bit that my mother always stressed with me. Her three most important points were environment, environment, environment. This means that you know where your kids are, who they are with and what they are doing. Who they hang out with can make a real difference in their lives.
I remember my mother forbiding me to hang out with a friend of mine at that time. She said he was no good and that even if I didn't do a single thing wrong you are there when something went wrong and therefore guilty by association. As time went by I saw the guy for the jack@@@ that he was. During our high school graduation this guy was off to the side crying because he flunked and didn't graduate with us. His behavior and lacl of focus set him back. If I had followed his philososphy I would probably have been standing next to him. I told my mother what I saw and needless to say she felt pretty vindicated.
This environment thing for me, in this day and age, means I am going to have to spend more money whether I like it or not. Government Schools are attrocious and not likely to supply our industries with scientists, engineers and other advanced degree careers. They have been far too consumed with rot that has nothing to do with academics. This varies from area to area but for the most part your children are going to get a better education and be far more prepared for college or a trade in private or parochial school. You also have less worries about what they wear(uniforms) , who they associate with (shared values) and a common goal/values that is not contrary to the ones you teach at home. this is another environment factor.
Lastly she always mentioned parents that were far too interested in being their child's friend. Parents are parents--not friends. They choose those. Your job as a parent is to teach them and mold their character not to pal around with them and act silly. Putting forward a good example even if it kills you is tough but it is an example and not a do as I say not as I do situation.
Fortunately my mother imparted these guidelines and a few others before she passed on. With a child on the way and my own experience to add, it settles my mind a bit as to my abilites to do a decent job myself. At least I hope so.
Ok, let the disagreements begin.

Regards to all,

J

 

[Etienne]

James--

It's so good to read about another young person with such solid goals for his family! Your parents did a good job! I really liked what you had to say about parents being parents and not having to be their kids' best friends. SO true! A popularity contest it's NOT! But there is no job in the world so rewarding!

 

[CWetherby]

Without goals for parenting, you'll probably end up with teenagers you do not know (or even like!).

I've had friends whose children were taught to call me Mrs.(last name), and being in the south, most will call me Miss (first name). I've personally always left this up to the parent of the child, as I'll answer to just about anything that's nice and polite

Here's a guy I've read for years, very traditional, helpful stuff (especially for those of us reared by hippies, who want to end that horrible cycle NOW!).
http://www.rosemond.com/

Hope it's helpful to you!

 

[Feraud]

I would not call the idea of raising children with respect for themselves, their peers, parents, or society as somehow "retro".
That is called good parenting no matter what era you live in! If you keep your children's best interest at heart your cannot go wrong! Give them lots of love and praise and never be afraid to discipline when necessary. The biggest way you will influence them will be your actions. How you interact with the world and your spouse (or significant other) will be their template for the future. Be your best and they will be theirs.

Dealing with the world outside the home is exactly why we strive so hard to raise our children well. As far as I am concerned my son (now 12) is not going to go out into the world looking for leadership, moral guidance and direction. He is going to be that moral compass and others will look to him.

I do not think there is any reason to limit their lives into some retro style mold. That seems unfair and potentially crippling in their abilities to deal with a world that progresses at a modern pace. Just to clarify the statement, I am not saying there is anything wrong with choosing a retro lifestyle. Young children do not choose as much as have their lives chosen for them by their parents.

 

[jamespowers]

James--

It's so good to read about another young person with such solid goals for his family! Your parents did a good job! I really liked what you had to say about parents being parents and not having to be their kids' best friends. SO true! A popularity contest it's NOT! But there is no job in the world so rewarding!

I am sure my mother and father would be happy to hear they did a good job if they were still here but I suppose it depends on who you ask. I can be pretty ferocious about goals and values. Not likely the son of an ex-marine and Korean War veteran would have it any other way. My friends were scared to death of my father but that was because they never met anyone who demanded respect in an era where their parents were hippies. My father was 39 when I was born so his mind was fairly settled. My mother always said he had an amazing amount of self control.
Whatever I said really is simply a compilation of my parents' advice. My father always believed that if you can't back up or follow through on what you say then it is not worth saying. He also believed that to be respected you have to be respectable. I have found that they both walked the walk and Twain was quite right about how children change their view of their parents as they get older.

Regards,

J

 

[clevispin]

Jess,

The sweetest, kindest & most respectful kids I've ever met are home-schooled. 5 or 6 kids in the family and they do not have money.

Public schools are deadly. Find a conservative private school. Mine go to Catholic school - but even there you need to check each school out individually.

No TV. When your little one discovers it - limit it to 1/2 hr a day.

Go to church/synagogue etc. regularly. Your kid ought to know that God is real, that He expects and deserves respect and that He is not optional.

Anything preceded by Mr/Mrs/Miss is fine. Some surnames might be tougher than christian names for little kids.

m

 

[Dis]

I had a lot of time to think about how I was going to raise my kids. Hubby and I met in college and did not marry until we both had our degrees. For hubby that was a three-year master's degree. Consequently, I was considerably older than most of my peers when I got married and when I had children. I have five of them.

We went the homeschool route. Our kids are constantly complimented on their manners and how they hold their own in a conversation with an adult. We've gotten free dessert at restaurants because of the way they treat the help.

Homeschooling is not for everyone. Some people would lose their minds being cooped up in a house with kids all day. It takes a bit of insanity to do it. Yes, money is sometimes a problem because Mom (or in some cases, Dad) has to be home all day. It's also very hard on the real estate. Kids who are there 24/7 put a lot of wear and tear on a house. My house was old and busted when I bought it. Now it looks even more busted. I figure when the kids are grown, then I can make it look pretty.

I'm not a strict parent. We have computers, TV and the video games. We watch all kinds of things. We will skip stuff with dirty scenes or excessive language. I find it's not the TV or the games that mess kids up. It's kids left to shift for themselves. My kids are around me all the time. We talk about what we see on TV. I am constantly reinforcing positive behaviors for them. I also have time to just talk, goof around and just have fun with them. My kids know I like being around them. That alone does a lot for a kid's sense of self worth.

I also pay attention to who they hang out with and if I think someone would be a bad influence I keep the younger ones away. My eldest is 17 and has shown that he can make good decisions about the company he keeps.

Time is the absolute ingredient I find in being able to instill the values you want your children to have.

This is what works for my family. Each family must find what will work for them and it likely will be different than what works for me.

 

[Marc Chevalier]

VintageJess, you could do the following: listen to Dr. Laura Schlesinger, a nationally syndicated radio advice show host. Try to be steely-willed enough to follow most of her advice. Don't follow all of it. If you do the above, your child will probably turn out quite well.

.

 

[mysterygal]

Jess, I think it's awesome that your trying to seek good counsel with raising your kid. :eusa_clap It is kind of scary, especially with your first one. My advice is this, raise them to respect authority figures, teach them to say their please and thank -you's, raising them in a church is great, don't be afraid to discipline, and tell them as much as possible how much you love them and shower them with hugs and kisses.

 

[topcat]

Shaping your child's soul with the loving standards of humility will protect
him and guide him against the poison of arrogance, which sadly seems to eventually attack even the most kind of children.

Yep, easier, MUCH easier when the majority of society is humble, the old
days.

When the majority of society is Arrogant ,its like raising your child on
a battlefield. Be twice as intense with every nurturing moment you deliver
unto your child these days. Being truly cared for and loved helps maintain
and build humility.

 

[Lincsong]

Arrogant snot nosed parents

Shaping your child's soul with the loving standards of humility will protect
him and guide him against the poison of arrogance, which sadly seems to eventually attack even the most kind of children.

When the majority of society is Arrogant ,its like raising your child on
a battlefield. Be twice as intense with every nurturing moment you deliver
unto your child these days. Being truly cared for and loved helps maintain
and build humility.

Yeah, arrogant parents breed arrogant kids. I freind of mine whose son is in the first grade at a private school came home and said that a classmate told him that he was rich and my freinds son was poor. Where does a 6 year old find this garbage? From Mom and Pops. Now, they're in the same school, wearing the same uniforms, my freind is driving a brand new car and living in a brand new house and this little brat calls the kid poor. So I tell the boy; this is what you tell him; "there's nothing wrong with being poor, but you're ugly and you'll always be ugly, there's no changing that" [huh] The only way to deal with a bully is to take him on.

 

[topcat]

You ain't just whistling Dixie there Lincsong. Yep. How can a six year old reach such"conclusions" on their own.

Gotta be careful though, arrogance of human nature is the deadliest and I
mean DEADLIEST FOE we'll ever face. I doubt this following scenario will
happen with your friend's son, but watch how cunning arrogance can be.

With enough mental barrage from kids "richer" than him, making such
comments ,it is the hope of arrogance then to develop and cultivate within
him, an anti rich ,anti wealthy attitude thus the seeds for class warfare and
how that gets perpetuated. As well as producing a hatred and rejection of self if you belong to such a class.

The stinging comments of a lower "status" so to speak cause the child to
begin thinking in status terms , as opposed to an individual basis.

Not realizing that there are kids richer than they who would be happy to be
their friends. But in the arrogant atmosphere of our schools, the nice rich
kid who would reach out feel intimidated and afraid then of having all of
that "making fun of" come down on them for reaching out.


Arrogance PLAYS BOTH SIDES. You have to look left, right, forwards,
backwards, up and down, to guard against it.

The kid who looks down on you cause your not "as rich" ,and the kid who
hates you because you are rich, shameful casualties of the war of
arrogance vs humility.

 

[Katt in Hat]

There just might be better role models and "advice mavins"

VintageJess, you could do the following: listen to Dr. Laura Schlesinger, a nationally syndicated radio advice show host. Try to be steely-willed enough to follow most of her advice. Don't follow all of it. If you do the above, your child will probably turn out quite well.

IF NOT THE DEVIL, DID ATHEISM MAKE HER DO IT? "DR. LAURA" FIGHTS NUDIE PICS ON THE NET ...

Radio's maven of morality had a fling on the side while married ... and left behind the evidence which is now on the internet. Should "Dr. Laura" be blaming atheism for her personal indiscretions and peccadillo's?

Virtue maven and radio celebrity Dr. Laura Schlessinger is, well, angry. After establishing herself as the nation's #2 advice-meister, and second in air ratings only to Rush Limbaugh, the 51-year old author and commentator has been stung by nude photos of her posted to the internet by a former lover. Known as "Dr. Laura," Schlessinger was outraged when the nudie pics appeared late last month on the "clublove" web site owned by Internet Entertainment Group. IEG obtained the "dirty dozen" pics -- twelve in all -- from Bill Ballance, a former boyfriend who took the photos and reportedly had an affair with Schlessinger. She was married to her first husband at the time the pics were made.

That behavior seems at odds with the squeaky-clean and morally righteous stance which Schlessinger had constructed, something which energizes her 15-million daily listeners. Schlessinger "sternly dishes out moral advice," notes a recent Associated Press dispatch. Her list of do's and don'ts which appear in her numerous books and talks include avoiding premarital sex, having children out of wedlock, putting kids in daycare, or trying to raise a child in a single parent environment. She boasts her credentials as a conservative Jew, and frequently takes aim at the "short-term thrills and long-term agony" mentality which she insists dominates modern society. Indeed, Schlessinger has become the guru of personal responsibility. In books such as "How Could You Do That?!: The Abdication of Character, Courage and Conscience" and "Ten Stupid Things Women Do To Mess Up Their Lives," Schlessinger excoriates the permissive liberal culture and demands that people assume personal responsibility for their actions. More at:
http://www.atheists.org/flash.line/atheism4.htm

I find Doc. Laura to be heartless and dogmatic but hey, I'm a "bleeding heart Liberal",and a Jew and wear these labels proudly.

Plenty of good advice on child rearing to be had out there. A little Spock and a little Laura and a little...AND A LOT OF LOVE. Good Luck with the most important job in the World.. :arated:

 

[Lincsong]

I was raised around them all

Topcat;

Arrogance PLAYS BOTH SIDES. You have to look left, right, forwards,
backwards, up and down, to guard against it.

The kid who looks down on you cause your not "as rich" ,and the kid who
hates you because you are rich, shameful casualties of the war of
arrogance vs humility.

[/QUOTE]

I grew up in the San Francisco Bay Area in a gritty little burg, and it was the motleiest of the motley crew. We had the entire spectrum; self hating rich kids, arrogant brats, middle class kids who either hated the rich kids, or middle class kids who wished they were rich and hated themselves. It's all about growing up in a competitive society. I'm just lucky that I talk to anyone who'll listen; rich or poor, I don't care as long as they can hear.

 

[shamus]

So I tell the boy; this is what you tell him; "there's nothing wrong with being poor, but you're ugly and you'll always be ugly, there's no changing that" [huh] The only way to deal with a bully is to take him on.

So you tell a 6 year old boy to tell another 6 year old boy he's ugly and will always be ugly. That's your great advice?

That is what I'd call a good example of what NOT to do. Maybe a better approach to this would have been to tell him, "No you're not poor." And just stay away from "Billy".

You blame the other son's parents for telling his son things he shouldn't say, yet you go and try to turn this "good" 6 year old into a young bully of his own.

 

[Lincsong]

So you tell a 6 year old boy to tell another 6 year old boy he's ugly and will always be ugly. That's your great advice?

That is what I'd call a good example of what NOT to do. Maybe a better approach to this would have been to tell him, "No you're not poor." And just stay away from "Billy".

You blame the other son's parents for telling his son things he shouldn't say, yet you go and try to turn this "good" 6 year old into a young bully of his own.

I can appreciate your approach. However, the boy has to learn to defend himself. It's called pulling a weed out by it's roots. And if my friends son puts down a kid he'll get a discipline from his Dad.

 

[Irena]

I can appreciate your approach. However, the boy has to learn to defend himself. It's called pulling a weed out by it's roots. And if my friends son puts down a kid he'll get a discipline from his Dad.

There is another way for a kid to defend himself...with dignity. No, I've never been a little boy, but I had to deal with plenty of bullys back in grade school. I just let them have their say, and when their words didn't affect me, those bullys let me alone. Thank you, Mom, for teaching me well.

 

[shamus]

There is another way for a kid to defend himself...with dignity. No, I've never been a little boy, but I had to deal with plenty of bullys back in grade school. I just let them have their say, and when their words didn't affect me, those bullys let me alone. Thank you, Mom, for teaching me well.

You go girl!