Schott 618hh. The good, the bad, and the ugly.

[mumpy]

Jumping on the 618HH train.

It's a great jacket. I stayed away from the Schott brand before because I've always thought it was just like All Saints but it is not, not the 618HH at least. It's a serious jacket. I got mine slightly used but knowing what the jacket is like now, I will have no issue paying full retail for the 618HH.

View attachment 522090 View attachment 522091 View attachment 522092

My jacket was from the 2022 production, and is about 24.75" back length. The front is just over 21", so not short that it looks cropped and not long that it needs a double zipper.

View attachment 522093

The above pic also illustrate what I like about the 618HH the most. It's got one of the nicest back pattern design. "Y" shaped back panel giving the wearing the V/Y taper look without the actual discomfort of the taper. The 618HH is actually quite straight in the torso in dimensions, but looks very tapered. Compared to my Toys Mccoy Durable this is a major upgrade, I don't have to starve just to wear the damn jacket.

View attachment 522094

The horsehide used on the 618HH is black all the way through, and thick pigment finish on the top. The leather is somewhere between 3oz to 3.5oz. When compared to my Vanson Comp Weight Highwayman, it is actually slightly thicker (most likely due to the thicker sleeve nylon).

Schott 618HH sleeve leather with nylon lining, 1.55mm, so I am guessing the leather is on average 3.25 oz thick. It is not stuffed with anything so it doesn't feel heavy in pounds but it is robust leather.
View attachment 522095

Vanson Highwayman E Comp Weight, 1.45mm, leather with the nylon lining. The Vanson nylon feels a bit thinner by touch. I am guessing the current comp weight is about the same thickness as the current Schott horsehide, just different advertising in thickness. The Vanson do feel heavier in pounds, I think the hide is stuff with something, I can't pin point what is in it. Sort of like CXL weighs heavier at thinner thickness because all the oil and waxed stuffed inside.

View attachment 522096

There is a shine to the Schott horsehide, yes. But I don't mind it. It's just a glossy paint they use. Schott HH vs Vanson CW:

View attachment 522098

The current 618HH in my opinion is the best buy for my money. It doesn't have the fancy zips and luxury craftsmanship of the Japanese repros, but it has better pattern cutting that is easier to wear and still give better shape. The Schott 618HH is more expensive than the Vanson version but I think the material upgrades are worth the extra money. This jacket really blew my mind. Thanks Roadking for making this post and to MrFrown for posting all those videos on his 618, made me pull the trigger. The current 618HH is a very nice jacket.

Great review! I am considering to buy this as a gift for someone. What is your height/weight/chest width and how would you describe the fit? Can you layer?

 

[Canuck Panda]

Great review! I am considering to buy this as a gift for someone. What is your height/weight/chest width and how would you describe the fit? Can you layer?

I used their sizing calculator and pick slim. If I pick regular they upsize one size. Size 42 is really only 22.5" P2P, not quite 23". For American sizing this is quite slim for the tag size.

With the slim fit I don't think it's gonna be comfortable with a fleece mid layer. Achievable, but everything will be compacted and it will feel like a compression jacket. I think to layer with a proper mid layer it would have to be the standard fit preference.

FWIW, I get cold easily in the winter. My rule is if I see frost on the grass in the morning, it's too cold for a leather jacket. No frost on grass in the morning, it's all good. The Japanese guys layer a vest over their leather biker jackets. I tried that a few times, it got very clammy. It's best to go with just a warmer jacket on those cooler days. Also most places I frequent now blast their heat in the winter, and if I wore a heavier mid layer fleece, it has to be zippered so easy on and off.

You're very generous to give this jacket as a gift, totally worth it though.

 

[mumpy]

View attachment 522102

I used their sizing calculator and pick slim. If I pick regular they upsize one size. Size 42 is really only 22.5" P2P, not quite 23". For American sizing this is quite slim for the tag size.

With the slim fit I don't think it's gonna be comfortable with a fleece mid layer. Achievable, but everything will be compacted and it will feel like a compression jacket. I think to layer with a proper mid layer it would have to be the standard fit preference.

FWIW, I get cold easily in the winter. My rule is if I see frost on the grass in the morning, it's too cold for a leather jacket. No frost on grass in the morning, it's all good. The Japanese guys layer a vest over their leather biker jackets. I tried that a few times, it got very clammy. It's best to go with just a warmer jacket on those cooler days. Also most places I frequent now blast their heat in the winter, and if I wore a heavier mid layer fleece, it has to be zippered so easy on and off.

You're very generous to give this jacket as a gift, totally worth it though.

Thanks that's useful info!

My dad has wanted one of these perfecto jackets for ages, thought would be a nice gift. He is up one size from me generally speaking and I would probably get a 40 in this for a similar fit to yours.

 

[Aloysius]

I stayed away from the Schott brand before because I've always thought it was just like All Saints

Brutal, lol.

The above pic also illustrate what I like about the 618HH the most. It's got one of the nicest back pattern design. "Y" shaped back panel giving the wearing the V/Y taper look without the actual discomfort of the taper. The 618HH is actually quite straight in the torso in dimensions, but looks very tapered.

Yes, the pattern that's used in the 613/618/618HH/141 is one of the best in the business.

Even though my personal favourite Perfecto is the 613S/SH, that one is basically a refinement of the 60s pattern. The pattern of your jacket is really honed towards maximum range of motion on the bike, which makes it supremely comfortable.

Their 141 cafe racer is the equivalent, except for cafe racers.

Another bonus over the Japanese homages is that you have nice tough unskived (but neat) seams on the Schotts.

Vanson Highwayman E Comp Weight, 1.45mm, leather with the nylon lining. The Vanson nylon feels a bit thinner by touch. I am guessing the current comp weight is about the same thickness as the current Schott horsehide, just different advertising in thickness. The Vanson do feel heavier in pounds, I think the hide is stuff with something, I can't pin point what is in it. Sort of like CXL weighs heavier at thinner thickness because all the oil and waxed stuffed inside.

Yes, the Vanson comp weight is stuffed and finished. As far as comparing it to Schott hides, I would say it feels like their 'naked cowhide' but it is finished like Schott steerhide/horsehide. It's good to have these comparisons between well known leathers for when we're shopping a brand but know the other one.

The current 618HH in my opinion is the best buy for my money. It doesn't have the fancy zips and luxury craftsmanship of the Japanese repros, but it has better pattern cutting that is easier to wear and still give better shape.

I would say that the steerhide 618/613 (same jacket, different buttons/studs) is just as good on this front, as is the naked cowhide (same hide, without topcoat) 118.

Just remember that while the pattern on 118 is identical, it is marked one size smaller, so someone like you or me who wears 42 in the 61x jacket would wear 40 in the 118.

It really comes down to what leather you want. The naked cowhide is goat-level soft, while being very tough and water resistant (not as water proof as the steer/horse though). The steerhide and horsehide are very similar, except the steerhide usually is a bit heavier and the horsehide's topcoat is much shinier. The Schott hides actually feel like a more premium version of the type of leather they were using in the 50s/60s, which is great because many repros are very different from the originals in that respect.

My dad has wanted one of these perfecto jackets for ages, thought would be a nice gift. He is up one size from me generally speaking and I would probably get a 40 in this for a similar fit to yours.

Does his interest come from punk rock or does he just like the style?

 

[mumpy]

Brutal, lol.

Yes, the pattern that's used in the 613/618/618HH/141 is one of the best in the business.

Even though my personal favourite Perfecto is the 613S/SH, that one is basically a refinement of the 60s pattern. The pattern of your jacket is really honed towards maximum range of motion on the bike, which makes it supremely comfortable.

Their 141 cafe racer is the equivalent, except for cafe racers.

Another bonus over the Japanese homages is that you have nice tough unskived (but neat) seams on the Schotts.



Yes, the Vanson comp weight is stuffed and finished. As far as comparing it to Schott hides, I would say it feels like their 'naked cowhide' but it is finished like Schott steerhide/horsehide. It's good to have these comparisons between well known leathers for when we're shopping a brand but know the other one.

I would say that the steerhide 618/613 (same jacket, different buttons/studs) is just as good on this front, as is the naked cowhide (same hide, without topcoat) 118.

Just remember that while the pattern on 118 is identical, it is marked one size smaller, so someone like you or me who wears 42 in the 61x jacket would wear 40 in the 118.

It really comes down to what leather you want. The naked cowhide is goat-level soft, while being very tough and water resistant (not as water proof as the steer/horse though). The steerhide and horsehide are very similar, except the steerhide usually is a bit heavier and the horsehide's topcoat is much shinier. The Schott hides actually feel like a more premium version of the type of leather they were using in the 50s/60s, which is great because many repros are very different from the originals in that respect.



Does his interest come from punk rock or does he just like the style?

Yeah I think punk rock

 

[Canuck Panda]

Brutal, lol.

Yes, the pattern that's used in the 613/618/618HH/141 is one of the best in the business.

Even though my personal favourite Perfecto is the 613S/SH, that one is basically a refinement of the 60s pattern. The pattern of your jacket is really honed towards maximum range of motion on the bike, which makes it supremely comfortable.

Their 141 cafe racer is the equivalent, except for cafe racers.

Another bonus over the Japanese homages is that you have nice tough unskived (but neat) seams on the Schotts.



Yes, the Vanson comp weight is stuffed and finished. As far as comparing it to Schott hides, I would say it feels like their 'naked cowhide' but it is finished like Schott steerhide/horsehide. It's good to have these comparisons between well known leathers for when we're shopping a brand but know the other one.

I would say that the steerhide 618/613 (same jacket, different buttons/studs) is just as good on this front, as is the naked cowhide (same hide, without topcoat) 118.

Just remember that while the pattern on 118 is identical, it is marked one size smaller, so someone like you or me who wears 42 in the 61x jacket would wear 40 in the 118.

It really comes down to what leather you want. The naked cowhide is goat-level soft, while being very tough and water resistant (not as water proof as the steer/horse though). The steerhide and horsehide are very similar, except the steerhide usually is a bit heavier and the horsehide's topcoat is much shinier. The Schott hides actually feel like a more premium version of the type of leather they were using in the 50s/60s, which is great because many repros are very different from the originals in that respect.



Does his interest come from punk rock or does he just like the style?

Very informative thank you.

I was looking at a 641HH is this also a "core model" like the 613 / 618? I think if I stick to the core models (like the ones that's been around for ages) I will be getting similar results as the 618 I've got now right?

Cool video on building a Perfecto:

17K views · 2.1K likes | Schott NYC on Instagram: "Build a Perfecto leather jacket with us at our factory in Union, New Jersey."

2,188 likes, 69 comments - schottnycNovember 9, 2022 on : "Build a Perfecto leather jacket with us at our factory in Union, New Jersey."

www.instagram.com

 

[Aloysius]

Yeah I think punk rock

In that case I would consider getting him a 613S instead if you can find one, although the regular 613/618 aren't bad of course. I mention this because the -S model is basically the 60s/70s fit so it'll look more like the jackets the punk rockers wore. Remember that, like the 618/613 (only a little more so), this jacket fits about one size down from marked, so if his chest is 38, get him the 40; if 40, get him the 42. I have a jacket on that pattern that's true to size and I can't move in it.

But nothing 'wrong' with getting a regular Perfecto either. Even the original bands had to replace their worn out jackets at some point!

Very informative thank you.

I was looking at a 641HH is this also a "core model" like the 613 / 618? I think if I stick to the core models (like the ones that's been around for ages) I will be getting similar results as the 618 I've got now right?

Cool video on building a Perfecto:

http://[URL]https://www.instagram.c...urce=ig_web_copy_link&igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==

[/URL]

Sort of.

The 141 and 641 are. It's the same jacket, but one is naked cowhide and the other is steerhide. The same sizing rule applies as with the cross zip (go up one size for 6-series), but they are identical jackets other than the leather, both coming with the same pattern and a removable winter liner.

The 641HH would fit the same as the 641, but personally it is less interesting to me because it is a little bit different. Instead of having a removable winter lining, it has a stitched in one, so it's less versatile.

Since you have a horsehide Perfecto already, I would suggest going naked cowhide (141) for your cafe racer. If you're 42 in 6-series, you will be a 40 in the 141.

The horsehide and steerhide are pretty similar in their preparation, whereas the naked cowhide is an full aniline leather with no topcoat. This means that, if you get a brown one, you could do your desired plan of getting a brown Schott to overdye black.

 

[Madhouse27]

Very informative thank you.

I was looking at a 641HH is this also a "core model" like the 613 / 618? I think if I stick to the core models (like the ones that's been around for ages) I will be getting similar results as the 618 I've got now right?

Cool video on building a Perfecto:

http://[URL]https://www.instagram.c...urce=ig_web_copy_link&igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==

[/URL]

I think I’m going with the 641HH as well (In a 44). I currently have a 141 in size 42 so they should fit about the same. I really like the naked cowhide on the 141 and mine seems to get better looking every day. What I don’t like is the zip in liner arrangement. It feels kind of weird when it’s in there, this fuzzy….thing. You kind of have to pull it down and get it in place. It’s shorter than the jacket and any versatility it’s offering could easily be outdone with a simple sweatshirt or polar fleece pullover. When the liner is out, you’ve got the unused, exposed zipper. It’s not like it‘s sticking into you, but just it being in there kind of bugs me. Oh and you’re interior pocket is gone.

My old Perfecto had the quilted permanent liner which (for me at least) was the superior system. I don’t know what the R value of the insulation was but I never felt excessively warm or cold because of it. It was comfortable and seemed to add a bit of extra structure to the jacket. I‘m glad the 641HH went this route. The cut, hide, interior choice and versatility on and off the bike make this seem like a great choice.

The harder choice (a bit further down the road) will be between the 618hh and 613SH but I’ve got a little liquidating to do before that moment comes. Not that it will add up to much money, but I’m going to liquidate my modest collection and keep the Legendary Beck Vest, 641HH and whichever of the two crosszips I decide on. Then I’ll be done….at least for a little while.

 

[Aloysius]

I think I’m going with the 641HH as well (In a 44). I currently have a 141 in size 42 so they should fit about the same. I really like the naked cowhide on the 141 and mine seems to get better looking every day. What I don’t like is the zip in liner arrangement. It feels kind of weird when it’s in there, this fuzzy….thing. You kind of have to pull it down and get it in place. It’s shorter than the jacket and any versatility it’s offering could easily be outdone with a simple sweatshirt or polar fleece pullover. When the liner is out, you’ve got the unused, exposed zipper. It’s not like it‘s sticking into you, but just it being in there kind of bugs me. Oh and you’re interior pocket is gone.

This is good to know. My Perfectos all have the quilted liner (one has an extra nice one but sadly the jacket is a little too small) so I figured the versatility of a zip in could be nice. I was thinking of getting a zip in in a Vanson I'm ordering.

 

[Madhouse27]

This is good to know. My Perfectos all have the quilted liner (one has an extra nice one but sadly the jacket is a little too small) so I figured the versatility of a zip in could be nice. I was thinking of getting a zip in in a Vanson I'm ordering.

I’ve had some pretty effective convertible systems on jackets that were made for snowboarding and snowmobiling so I appreciate the concept. The one on my 141 was just better on paper than in actual use. I think there’s a reason that many of the used 141 and 641 jackets are missing their liners. The owners took them out and never thought about them again. When I sell my 141 I’m going to tout the nearly unworn liner lol.

 

[Tom71]

Brutal, lol.

Yes, the pattern that's used in the 613/618/618HH/141 is one of the best in the business.

Even though my personal favourite Perfecto is the 613S/SH, that one is basically a refinement of the 60s pattern. The pattern of your jacket is really honed towards maximum range of motion on the bike, which makes it supremely comfortable.

Their 141 cafe racer is the equivalent, except for cafe racers.

Another bonus over the Japanese homages is that you have nice tough unskived (but neat) seams on the Schotts.



Yes, the Vanson comp weight is stuffed and finished. As far as comparing it to Schott hides, I would say it feels like their 'naked cowhide' but it is finished like Schott steerhide/horsehide. It's good to have these comparisons between well known leathers for when we're shopping a brand but know the other one.

I would say that the steerhide 618/613 (same jacket, different buttons/studs) is just as good on this front, as is the naked cowhide (same hide, without topcoat) 118.

Just remember that while the pattern on 118 is identical, it is marked one size smaller, so someone like you or me who wears 42 in the 61x jacket would wear 40 in the 118.

It really comes down to what leather you want. The naked cowhide is goat-level soft, while being very tough and water resistant (not as water proof as the steer/horse though). The steerhide and horsehide are very similar, except the steerhide usually is a bit heavier and the horsehide's topcoat is much shinier. The Schott hides actually feel like a more premium version of the type of leather they were using in the 50s/60s, which is great because many repros are very different from the originals in that respect.



Does his interest come from punk rock or does he just like the style?

That´s useful for a Schott-novice like myself. Thanks!

Would you say, the 613SH and the 618HH differ in the sense that the former is slightly more fitted, or are there other differences?
(Asking for a friend, as of course I am not buying yet another Perfecto...)

 

[Tom71]

I think I’m going with the 641HH as well (In a 44). I currently have a 141 in size 42 so they should fit about the same. I really like the naked cowhide on the 141 and mine seems to get better looking every day. What I don’t like is the zip in liner arrangement. It feels kind of weird when it’s in there, this fuzzy….thing. You kind of have to pull it down and get it in place. It’s shorter than the jacket and any versatility it’s offering could easily be outdone with a simple sweatshirt or polar fleece pullover. When the liner is out, you’ve got the unused, exposed zipper. It’s not like it‘s sticking into you, but just it being in there kind of bugs me. Oh and you’re interior pocket is gone.

My old Perfecto had the quilted permanent liner which (for me at least) was the superior system. I don’t know what the R value of the insulation was but I never felt excessively warm or cold because of it. It was comfortable and seemed to add a bit of extra structure to the jacket. I‘m glad the 641HH went this route. The cut, hide, interior choice and versatility on and off the bike make this seem like a great choice.

The harder choice (a bit further down the road) will be between the 618hh and 613SH but I’ve got a little liquidating to do before that moment comes. Not that it will add up to much money, but I’m going to liquidate my modest collection and keep the Legendary Beck Vest, 641HH and whichever of the two crosszips I decide on. Then I’ll be done….at least for a little while.

Seconded re zip-out liners. Really don´t know what to do with it. For layering, there are better/more versatile options, but a zipped-out liner always leaves the jacket looking incomplete.

It´s a bit like when Volkswagen startet that silly idea of a convertible with a metal top. The "Eos" wanted to be cool and suitable for the middle-aged middle-class guy at the same time. Turns out yet again that you can´t have the cake AND eat it...

 

[Tom71]

Jumping on the 618HH train.

It's a great jacket. I stayed away from the Schott brand before because I've always thought it was just like All Saints but it is not, not the 618HH at least. It's a serious jacket. I got mine slightly used but knowing what the jacket is like now, I will have no issue paying full retail for the 618HH.

View attachment 522090 View attachment 522091 View attachment 522092

My jacket was from the 2022 production, and is about 24.75" back length. The front is just over 21", so not short that it looks cropped and not long that it needs a double zipper.

View attachment 522093

The above pic also illustrate what I like about the 618HH the most. It's got one of the nicest back pattern design. "Y" shaped back panel giving the wearing the V/Y taper look without the actual discomfort of the taper. The 618HH is actually quite straight in the torso in dimensions, but looks very tapered. Compared to my Toys Mccoy Durable this is a major upgrade, I don't have to starve just to wear the damn jacket.

View attachment 522094

The horsehide used on the 618HH is black all the way through, and thick pigment finish on the top. The leather is somewhere between 3oz to 3.5oz. When compared to my Vanson Comp Weight Highwayman, it is actually slightly thicker (most likely due to the thicker sleeve nylon).

Schott 618HH sleeve leather with nylon lining, 1.55mm, so I am guessing the leather is on average 3.25 oz thick. It is not stuffed with anything so it doesn't feel heavy in pounds but it is robust leather.
View attachment 522095

Vanson Highwayman E Comp Weight, 1.45mm, leather with the nylon lining. The Vanson nylon feels a bit thinner by touch. I am guessing the current comp weight is about the same thickness as the current Schott horsehide, just different advertising in thickness. The Vanson do feel heavier in pounds, I think the hide is stuff with something, I can't pin point what is in it. Sort of like CXL weighs heavier at thinner thickness because all the oil and waxed stuffed inside.

View attachment 522096

There is a shine to the Schott horsehide, yes. But I don't mind it. It's just a glossy paint they use. Schott HH vs Vanson CW:

View attachment 522098

The current 618HH in my opinion is the best buy for my money. It doesn't have the fancy zips and luxury craftsmanship of the Japanese repros, but it has better pattern cutting that is easier to wear and still give better shape. The Schott 618HH is more expensive than the Vanson version but I think the material upgrades are worth the extra money. This jacket really blew my mind. Thanks Roadking for making this post and to MrFrown for posting all those videos on his 618, made me pull the trigger. The current 618HH is a very nice jacket.

Now, that´s a superb fit! Don´t know why it took me so long to appreciate the classic Perfecto, but know I can´t un-see it.

 

[Aloysius]

That´s useful for a Schott-novice like myself. Thanks!

Would you say, the 613SH and the 618HH differ in the sense that the former is slightly more fitted, or are there other differences?
(Asking for a friend, as of course I am not buying yet another Perfecto...)

The 613S(H) fits the same (size wise) as the 613/618 (or 118 but go down one tagged size), except marginally narrower shoulders at the same size.

The difference with the non-S jackets is their slightly different back shape, which is more rounded, and the gain in range of motion from having the underarm footballs like a G-1. With the 118 this goes up another level because the leather itself is goat soft to begin with.

 

[Aloysius]

Seconded re zip-out liners. Really don´t know what to do with it. For layering, there are better/more versatile options, but a zipped-out liner always leaves the jacket looking incomplete.

It´s a bit like when Volkswagen startet that silly idea of a convertible with a metal top. The "Eos" wanted to be cool and suitable for the middle-aged middle-class guy at the same time. Turns out yet again that you can´t have the cake AND eat it...

Good to see the feedback from all of you. I will ask Vanson to not add a zip in liner, then, but to place the snaps for their optional liner that they sell separately. (I have them on my cafe racer and they’re completely out of the way.)

 

[Tom71]

The 613S(H) fits the same (size wise) as the 613/618 (or 118 but go down one tagged size), except marginally narrower shoulders at the same size.

The difference with the non-S jackets is their slightly different back shape, which is more rounded, and the gain in range of motion from having the underarm footballs like a G-1. With the 118 this goes up another level because the leather itself is goat soft to begin with.

Understood. Thanks much!

 

[mumpy]

In that case I would consider getting him a 613S instead if you can find one, although the regular 613/618 aren't bad of course. I mention this because the -S model is basically the 60s/70s fit so it'll look more like the jackets the punk rockers wore. Remember that, like the 618/613 (only a little more so), this jacket fits about one size down from marked, so if his chest is 38, get him the 40; if 40, get him the 42. I have a jacket on that pattern that's true to size and I can't move in it.

But nothing 'wrong' with getting a regular Perfecto either. Even the original bands had to replace their worn out jackets at some point!

Yeah that makes sense! The slim model might be a better fit for him as well.

Does the 613S and 613SH have the same pattern/fit only different hide?

EDIT: Just noticed your reply above, indeed they should fit the same.

 

[Aloysius]

Yeah that makes sense! The slim model might be a better fit for him as well.

Does the 613S and 613SH have the same pattern/fit only different hide?

EDIT: Just noticed your reply above, indeed they should fit the same.

All of these jackets are slim.

The 613S (SH is the same thing except horsehide) designation means the 60s/70s cut, so more accurate to the punk rock era look, but lacking the underarm footballs and other riding-based enhancements (like pocket angles).

The 613 (non-S)/618 are equally slim in their cut as the 613S; they just have a different pattern that provides a greater range of movement and slightly different look.

 

[Madhouse27]

This may end up being an embarrassing question, but it appears that the 613 line of jackets have snaps on the lapels but not on the collar itself like the 118, 618 (and other variants). Am I correct on this one?

 

[mumpy]

This may end up being an embarrassing question, but it appears that the 613 line of jackets have snaps on the lapels but not on the collar itself like the 118, 618 (and other variants). Am I correct on this one?

Yes I think you are right. Also keep in mind the 613S(H) do not have one though (at least my 613SH doesn't).

EDIT: Misunderstood your question - in any case the 613 line doesn't seem to have snaps on the back.