The Bowler or Derby Hat

[Rmccamey]

Yep, the D'Orsay curl is an amazing interaction between art and engineering!

Ive done a few ribbon bound brims on flat brims, but how they did the wide binding on the complex curved brims of a bowler have always amazed me!!!
View attachment 729326

Now if I can just find that elusive vintage light grey one!

View attachment 729327

 

[mayserwegener]

P. & C. Habig Wien "Spezial Qualität" with "Auto Cape", size 57cm, 198 grams, 1935 probable production year. I have three examples of "Auto Cape" which is based on Austrian Patent "133275" (1933) by Adolf Sindermann and Hans Frankmann in Wien. The patent claim is to make a stiff felt hat that is resistant to denting and an Insert being a part of the invention. I have three examples of "Auto Cape", this one with a Straw Insert, one with a Felt Insert and one with the Insert removed. All three are dent free. There are more details below regarding Austrian Patent "133275" and "Auto Cape".

Austrian Patent "133275" by Adolf Sindermann and Hans Frankmann Wien that P. & C. Habig Wien called "Auto Cape". The patent claim is to make a stiff felt hat that is resistant to denting and the Insert being a part of the invention. There are more details below regarding Austrian Patent "133275" and "Auto Cape".

Austrian Patent Office Patent NO. 133276. Issued on May 10, 1933. Adolf Sindermann and Hans Frankmann In Vienna. (English Translations in the images. Originally in German)

Austrian Patent 133275 addendum from 1936.

"Auto Cape" appears to only use a Crown Insert so not as complicated as the Austrian Patent 133276 process. It's possible some of the other processes are incorporated but that would require removing the Inserts.

P. & C. Habig Wien - Berlin "Special Qualität" with "Auto Cape", 208 gram, I found in 2015 has a Felt Insert. I couldn't find a paper label and didn't want to damage the Sweatband. The Felt and Straw Inserts add additional weight. I only have the Austrian Patent 133276 details and no information on "Auto Cape".

P. & C. Habig Wien "Spezial Qualität" with "Auto Cape", 58 cm, 124 grams. This Stiff Felt is missing the "Auto Cape" Insert so they were removable but don't know how this was accomplished (and not taking the risk of trying). The weight is 84 grams lighter than the Felt Insert "Auto Cape" which is probably size 58 cm.

"Auto Cape"

It's possible the glue residue is from the "Auto Cape" Insert.

One of the inventors, Adolf Sindermann has a good number of hat related patents. His company was a major supplier of felt stumpen and capelines. P. & C. Habig Wien didn't produce Felt so Sindermann & Co. could have been one their Felt sources.

 

[Rmccamey]

Wow. That palm weave liner is spectacular, Steve!

P. & C. Habig Wien "Spezial Qualität" with "Auto Cape", size 57cm, 198 grams, 1935 probable production year. I have three examples of "Auto Cape" which is based on Austrian Patent "133275" (1933) by Adolf Sindermann and Hans Frankmann in Wien. The patent claim is to make a stiff felt hat that is resistant to denting and an Insert being a part of the invention. I have three examples of "Auto Cape", this one with a Straw Insert, one with a Felt Insert and one with the Insert removed. All three are dent free. There are more details below regarding Austrian Patent "133275" and "Auto Cape".

Austrian Patent "133275" by Adolf Sindermann and Hans Frankmann Wien that P. & C. Habig Wien called "Auto Cape". The patent claim is to make a stiff felt hat that is resistant to denting and the Insert being a part of the invention. There are more details below regarding Austrian Patent "133275" and "Auto Cape".

Austrian Patent Office Patent NO. 133276. Issued on May 10, 1933. Adolf Sindermann and Hans Frankmann In Vienna. (English Translations in the images. Originally in German)

Austrian Patent 133275 addendum from 1936.

"Auto Cape" appears to only use a Crown Insert so not as complicated as the Austrian Patent 133276 process. It's possible some of the other processes are incorporated but that would require removing the Inserts.

P. & C. Habig Wien - Berlin "Special Qualität" with "Auto Cape", 208 gram, I found in 2015 has a Felt Insert. I couldn't find a paper label and didn't want to damage the Sweatband. The Felt and Straw Inserts add additional weight. I only have the Austrian Patent 133276 details and no information on "Auto Cape".

P. & C. Habig Wien "Spezial Qualität" with "Auto Cape", 58 cm, 124 grams. This Stiff Felt is missing the "Auto Cape" Insert so they were removable but don't know how this was accomplished (and not taking the risk of trying). The weight is 84 grams lighter than the Felt Insert "Auto Cape" which is probably size 58 cm.

"Auto Cape"

It's possible the glue residue is from the "Auto Cape" Insert.

One of the inventors, Adolf Sindermann has a good number of hat related patents. His company was a major supplier of felt stumpen and capelines. P. & C. Habig Wien didn't produce Felt so Sindermann & Co. could have been one their Felt sources.

 

[mayserwegener]

Wow. That palm weave liner is spectacular, Steve!

Randy, Thank you! Yes, I was happy to find it. Hope to find more!

 

[mayserwegener]

Mayser "Grand Prix" "R", 58 cm, 154 grams, possibly late 1920s early 1930s. Made by Mayser Ulm for the Swiss market "Chapellerie Krämer Basel". Mayser Ulm Stiff Felts are difficult to find and this one is in excellent condition. I have five Mayser Ulm Stiff Felts and they all have the same width Bands and similar length Bows.

The Initials were removed.

The exterior size label is still present.

"M U" Mayser Ulm Paper Label, "Chapellerie Krämer Basel 2550" Paper Label

"Albert Krämer Spalenberg 41. Basel" Annuario del commercio italo-svizzero / Yearbook of Italian-Swiss Trade, Published 1934

 

[Rmccamey]

Wow. That is in perfect condition. Nothing to dislike - other than it is in your collection and not mine

I see very few German/Austrian hats "in the wild" in my part of the country. Borsalino's are much more common.

Mayser "Grand Prix" "R". 58 cm, 154 grams, possibly late 1920s early 1930s. Made by Mayser Ulm for the Swiss market "Chapellerie Krämer Basel". Mayser Ulm Stiff Felts are difficult to find and this one is in excellent condition. I have five Mayser Ulm Stiff Felts and they all have the same width Bands and similar length Bows.

The Initials were removed.

The exterior size label is still present.

"M U" Mayser Ulm Paper Label, "Chapellerie Krämer Basel 2550" Paper Label

"Albert Krämer Spalenberg 41. Basel" Annuario del commercio italo-svizzero / Yearbook of Italian-Swiss Trade, Published 1934

 

[Steve1857]

Mayser "Grand Prix" "R". 58 cm, 154 grams, possibly late 1920s early 1930s. Made by Mayser Ulm for the Swiss market "Chapellerie Krämer Basel". Mayser Ulm Stiff Felts are difficult to find and this one is in excellent condition. I have five Mayser Ulm Stiff Felts and they all have the same width Bands and similar length Bows.

The Initials were removed.

The exterior size label is still present.

"M U" Mayser Ulm Paper Label, "Chapellerie Krämer Basel 2550" Paper Label

"Albert Krämer Spalenberg 41. Basel" Annuario del commercio italo-svizzero / Yearbook of Italian-Swiss Trade, Published 1934

A really great find, Steve. Looks in super condition both inside and out.

 

[mayserwegener]

Wow. That is in perfect condition. Nothing to dislike - other than it is in your collection and not mine

I see very few German/Austrian hats "in the wild" in my part of the country. Borsalino's are much more common.

Randy, Thank you! It's becoming more difficult to find ones like this.

 

[mayserwegener]

A really great find, Steve. Looks in super condition both inside and out.

Steve, Thanks! Yes, owner kept very good care of it.

 

[M Hatman]

Stiff felts from an 1893 Chicago Catalog.
More here: https://www.thefedoralounge.com/threads/hatters-cleaners-and-dyers.99090/post-3227736

 

[M Hatman]

From a copyrighted card dated 1882.

 

[BobHufford]

 

[The Hatted Professor]

Wow. Just. Wow. That will be a shame. It would take a lot of work to get the all of that shellac out enough to crease the crown, if it can be done at all. otherwise, that felt is going to crack. Loss of a beautiful derby.

 

[The Shoe]

View attachment 756882

I haven’t reacted to this post because I can’t decide between the laugh or cry emojis. Surely, whichever hatter he took it to set him straight.

 

[Rmccamey]

Just shoot me now!!! And here I was hoping Christmas day would be a happy day

Yes, hopefully his hatter will change his mind.

View attachment 756882

Wow. Just. Wow. That will be a shame. It would take a lot of work to get the all of that shellac out enough to crease the crown, if it can be done at all. otherwise, that felt is going to crack. Loss of a beautiful derby.

I haven’t reacted to this post because I can’t decide between the laugh or cry emojis. Surely, whichever hatter he took it to set him straight.

 

[mayserwegener]

P. & C. Habig Wien Berlin "Spezial - Biber", 60 cm, possibly mid 1930s. Made of "Echt Biber" Real Beaver Felt with a fine Smooth Finish. Medium width black Band with interesting Offset Bow. Off white Sweatband with a unique black and burnt orange Liner design.

 

[Steve1857]

P. & C. Habig Wien Berlin "Spezial - Biber", 60 cm, possibly mid 1930s. Made of "Echt Biber" Real Beaver Felt with a fine Smooth Finish. Medium width black Band with interesting Offset Bow. Off white Sweatband with a unique black and burnt orange Liner design.

That is one super find, Steve.

Congrats!

 

[Rmccamey]

Wow, that bowler is loaded with unique features. Nice catch, Steve.

P. & C. Habig Wien Berlin "Spezial - Biber", 60 cm, possibly mid 1930s. Made of "Echt Biber" Real Beaver Felt with a fine Smooth Finish. Medium width black Band with interesting Offset Bow. Off white Sweatband with a unique black and burnt orange Liner design.

 

[The Hatted Professor]

 

[mayserwegener]

That is one super find, Steve.

Congrats!

Steve, Thank you!