Tuskegee Airmen

[Mycroft]

Great Film, for any Civil Right or WWII or Aviation History Buff. Great Costumes, the planes were cool, and good casting.

 

[whistlebait]

It seems like there was a documentary done a long time ago about them but its good they are being recognized again. So important to keep the memory alive. Thanks for posting this.

 

[jake431]

The movie sucks, historically speaking. It shouldn't have but they use the wrong flight gear, the wrong planes (where were the P-40's they started out in?) and don't even really portray the events accurately. This was a subject that needed no hollywood-ization, but it got the full treatment.

-Jake

 

[Lena_Horne]

Is that with Laurence Fisburne?

L_H

 

[Feraud]

Yes this is the film with Fishburne. I recently bought the dvd but have not watched it yet.
Was it that bad historically? Jeez, Hollywood can really screw a good thing up..
On another note, I had the pleasure of listening to a lecture given by a few Tuskeegee veterans! It took place about 5-6 months ago in NYC. It was an honor to be in the room with these particular men. Real heroes!

 

[jake431]

They wear these goofy shearling jackets that aren't B-3's or B-6's or D-1's, they're just wrong. And the shoot P-51's from different angles, and at some point in the movie proclaim the same P-51's to be "mustangs" as though they are different. It's goofy. They didn't need any embelishment.

-Jake

 

[Hondo]

They wear these goofy shearling jackets that aren't B-3's or B-6's or D-1's, they're just wrong. And the shoot P-51's from different angles, and at some point in the movie proclaim the same P-51's to be "mustangs" as though they are different. It's goofy. They didn't need any embelishment.

-Jake

Well done Jake, you sure know your stuff better than I, I liked the film but always felt something was wrong with it and you hit the hammer on the nail, As far as historical fact goes. I couldn't tell from P-51's to mustangs or jackets they wore, goofy is right bud, Thanks for the info, I must do my reading (research) sometime, Yup "Hollywood can really screw a good thing up.."

 

[Story]

Interesting article. The unit already has a firm grasp of glory without artificially inflated records.

Lore of Tuskegee Airmen disputed
Historian says record not perfect

By Associated Press | December 12, 2006

MONTGOMERY, Ala. -- It has been part of the lore of America's first black
fighter pilots since the end of World War II: The Tuskegee Airmen never
lost a bomber to enemy fire.

But now, more than 60 years later, a leader of the group says he has
uncovered records proving the assertion is not accurate.

Air Force records show that at least a few bombers escorted by the
red-tailed fighters of the Tuskegee Airman were shot down by enemy planes,
William F. Holton, historian of Tuskegee Airmen Inc., said in an interview
yesterday. And the group's losses may have been much greater, he said.

Holton's research was first reported Sunday by the Montgomery Advertiser.

Some surviving members of the group were offended by the findings of Holton
and Daniel Haulman of the Air Force Historical Research Agency at
Maxwell-Gunter Air Force Base in Montgomery, who came to the same conclusion.

A former Tuskegee airman, Carrol Woods of Montgomery, called their findings
"outrageous."

"I think they are trying to destroy our record. What's the point now?"
Woods, 87, told the Advertiser.

Holton said his sole interest is in making sure the group's history is as
accurate as possible.

The president of the Tuskegee Airmen Inc., retired Air Force Lieutenant
General Russell Davis, said he would no longer say in speeches that the
group never lost a bomber under its escort.

"I'm going to drop [it] until we can get this thing clarified," Davis said.
"We've got some homework to do, obviously."

The Tuskegee Airmen were the first group of black fighter pilots allowed
into the US Army Air Corps. They got their name from the Alabama town where they trained.

With nearly 1,000 pilots and as many as 19,000 support personnel ranging
from mechanics to nurses, the group was credited with shooting down more
than 100 enemy aircraft and -- for years -- with never losing an American
bomber under escort.

Holton, who has been historian of the association for about a decade, said
he began leafing through old mission reports after hearing a veteran
complain that the Tuskegee Airmen lost some bombers.

Haulman said the group's combat mission reports clearly show that US
bombers were lost while being escorted by Tuskegee Airmen in Europe.

One mission report says that on July 26, 1944: "1 B-24 seen spiraling out
of formation in T/A [target area] after attack by E/A [enemy aircraft]. No
chutes seen to open."

A second report, dated Aug. 31, 1944, praises group commander General
Benjamin O. Davis Jr. by saying he "so skillfully disposed his squadrons
that in spite of the large number of enemy fighters, the bomber formation
suffered only a few losses."

A third report says that on Sept. 12, 1944: "10 Me-109s attacked the rear
of the bomber formation from below and left one B-17 burning, with 6 chutes
seen to open."

Holton, of Columbia, Md., suspects that contentions about the all-black
group never losing a plane resulted from something that happened in May
1945 around the end of the war.

In a letter commending Davis, Colonel Buck Taylor said the group had the
distinction of never losing a bomber, Holton said. A military public
relations representative included the reference in Davis's official biography.

Holton, in the interview, said it is unclear where Taylor got his information.

 

[Twitch]

All subjects of cinema are originated by someone with an interest or passion for a particular subject. They are created and produced as entertainment often with an underlying factor that viewers might pursue the actually subject in a more acedemic sense. It might move someone to acyually read a book or seek out achival film footage in a documentary on History Channel or whatnot.

Era movies are simply kernals to plant in your brain so that you may seek the true knowledge you desire or dimiss it as junk. It's always the individual's choice.

 

[Harp]

General Benjamin O. Davis Jr was one of the finest officers
this nation has ever produced.

 

[Feraud]

I read the article too and thought about posting it somewhere on the lounge. This new twist does not take anything away from the fine record or legend of the Tuskeegee Airmen.

I had the pleasure to attend a speaking engagement with a few of these airmen in attendance.
It was an honor and thrilling to hear these gentlemen give account of their war record. There was no bragging but a straightforward account of the army life and experiences of these men.
A great memory.

 

[fortworthgal]

I saw this article as well, pretty interesting. I agree that it does not take away from their fine record of performance. There is a PBS documentary that is much better than the Fishburne movie: http://www.shoppbs.org/sm-pbs-the-tuskegee-airmen--pi-1402874.html

Two years in a row I have had the honor of participating in an airshow where a group of the Tuskegee Airmen are present. Steve Cowell also has his restored Tuskegee T-6 "Double Vee" there which is really neat, and the guys seem to love it. Those that I have met are such a great group - very friendly and willing to talk about their experiences.

 

[The Wingnut]

The movie sucks, historically speaking. It shouldn't have but they use the wrong flight gear, the wrong planes (where were the P-40's they started out in?) and don't even really portray the events accurately. This was a subject that needed no hollywood-ization, but it got the full treatment.

-Jake

Yeah, after watching it the second time through, you start to wonder why the flightline always had pilots jogging up and down aimlessly in pseudo B-3s in North Africa, and why there was always some unlikely pop/swing tune playing over the PA at the airfield. The uniforms were obviously put together by someone used to doing modern unifoms, the collar brass was always heinously misaligned, unless you were going by modern standards.

A combination of lousy writing, uncreative directing, poor research, and a lack of passion or familiarity with the topic at hand can trash a production with otherwise great potential...

...now, the civilian costumes were top notch. I loved some of the hats and suits. So it wasn't entirely bad. I own it (ex GF gave it to me for Christmas), and occasionally throw it on...but there's far better in my collection.



...as for the revelation, I've always viewed the claims with some skepticisim. Nobody's THAT good, and the fog of war can shroud some pretty obvious details. I still respect the group for what it's done.

 

[Mr. Sable]

All subjects of cinema are originated by someone with an interest or passion for a particular subject. They are created and produced as entertainment often with an underlying factor that viewers might pursue the actually subject in a more acedemic sense. It might move someone to acyually read a book or seek out achival film footage in a documentary on History Channel or whatnot.

Era movies are simply kernals to plant in your brain so that you may seek the true knowledge you desire or dimiss it as junk. It's always the individual's choice.

Very well put. Often you have to fudge the visual details to accommodate budget as well. There is a big difference between entertainment and document. A lot of people who wouldn't have known about these men otherwise now do as a result of the movie, and I think that was the primary intent of the writers.

The producers were concerned with not spending too much and a return on their investment - that's where most movies get derailed... there and when the producers start believing they're creative and have a right to contribute 'ideas'.

 

[Baggers]

Let's remember that this was originally made for television, if I recall, and as a result probably never had that big of a budget to begin with. Because of that, some things I can excuse. Not having complete authenticity because you can't afford the real thing or a good reproduction of it is one thing, but screwing up on the small details such as placement of insignia is just plain sloppiness. It doesn't cost extra to put them on correctly, and there was a wealth of material to go through if the Costume Designer had cared enough to do the research.

Cheers!

 

[Twitch]

Exactly Mr. Sable. If the movie stimulated people to seek out books and other forms of historically accurate information on the Airmen then it did a service to these guys.