Vintage Workwear

[dh66]

Very cool find Bob H! Thanks for sharing it.

 

[tropicalbob]

Eddie, great photo! They're a very decent-looking group. For a moment when I first saw it, I thought your grandpa was the young JFK.

 

[Eddie Derbyshire]

Thanks tropicalbob! I'm afraid I didn't inherit his good looks

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[Rabbit]

Here's a somewhat unusual pair of trousers, bought off eBay US. They're a very vivid shade of blue, nearly cobalt blue, in what feels like flannel of ca. 18oz, similar in weight to the WWII U.S. Army serge wool trousers. It's a durable, serviceable kind of a fabric, nothing fancy or expensive-looking by the standards of that time. It would fit in with 1940s-50s fabrics. The hem is 10" wide and finished with cuffs that are quite obviously not original, sewn with a different thread than the rest of the trousers.
There are ink prints on the liner of a type that would lead me to believe that these might have been part of a uniform. It reads "PROVOW C E" and "2-M". The color is not at all what you'd expect from civilian clothes of the era.
Another unusual detail is that the thread used throughout the trousers is black, resulting in a very conspicuous contrast stitching - again, something I wouldn't expect to see in civilian trousers of the era. I have no doubt that these are not reproductions; all materials used look and feel pre-60s vintage. The fabric has the usual stiffness associated with vintage trousers, holding a razor sharp crease.
The stitching is generally pretty well enforced, such as at the fly buttonholes.

Any ideas? Has anyone ever seen uniforms answering to that description? I was thinking of transportation or other non-military uniforms.

The color rendition of the first collage looks pretty accurate on my monitor; the other two are a little too light. The D-ring belt of course is separate; I made it from an old silk tie.

 

[dh66]

You're spot on. Unless the color is significantly brighter than my screen shows. Some kind of driver probably most likely wore those as part of his uniform. Too bad there wasn't a matching jacket, although they do look good the way you are using them.

 

[Rabbit]

Thanks, that makes two of us, then. The color is like in the first collage; the other pics are too bright. I could see a driver wearing them, they're not that bright. It's too bright for what I'd expect of a desk job uniform, although that's merely a guess.
"Borrowing" these trousers for civilian wear, they can pass well enough for summer trousers because of the brightness.

 

[tropicalbob]

Could they be Marine Corps dress blues?

 

[ingineer]

Rabbit;
Wild ... quess
http://www.mtsu.edu/arotc1/history_MilitarySci.php
bottom of page
Maybe even the band

 

[ingineer]

There seems to be linkage
https://www.google.com/search?q=provow+middle+tennese&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8#q=provow+middle+tennessee

 

[Rabbit]

ingineer, you may be on to something with that second idea. Where's the connection between the word Provow and the Middle Tennessee State University? Nothing in Google images about that, either.

The first idea is out, I think. These trousers of the military band have the usual military stripes on the outseam. You can see the yellow stripes when opening the image.

Bob, I don't know what shade of blue the USMC trousers dress blues would have. Didn't even know they had blue ones. Incidentally, the blue color of these trousers is nowhere near the early 1950s USAF airforce blue trousers. I'll take a side-by-side photo to show the difference. I can picture the bright blue for a marching band, except that those usually have a stripe, but not for soldiers of the era when these trousers were made.

Edit: Here are the bright blue ones next to a pair of 1951 USAF trousers. The lighting is too harsh, the colors are slightly washed out.

 

[ingineer]

It is their colour
Can't find a good image
of course things change after all those years
Sons oft follow their fathers to the same school
Best i can do
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mIg7HweLSmw

 

[Rabbit]

Could be the same color, true.

 

[ingineer]

there is another linkage
Panatone 301

 

[Eddie Derbyshire]

Lovely trousers Rabbit, wherever they come from! A classic colour really, in what you might call a 'French Royal Blue'? I've got a jacket in a similar colour. The shirt and neckerchief really suit the trousers, and the whole outfit looks smashing.

With regards military trousers - I have in the past removed stripes with little-to-no evidence of them being there. It depends on the construction of course, but most just have the stripe sewn on top of the seam, like evening trousers.

 

[Rabbit]

Eddie, I was thinking of that possibility. I would expect to see some evidence of a removed stripe near the on-seam pockets, but it's still possible.

French royal blue could be a fitting name, assuming the denomination French means a lighter shade, as in French navy. It's a very distinctive shade in any event and as I said, I wouldn't expect to find it in streetwear clothes - not in a solid colored suit, anyway. Boating blazers and patterned summer trousers, yes, but not in solid flannel trousers.
I'd like to see a photo of that jacket of yours! I bet it's not as bright as these trousers, though.

ingineer, the link is missing somehow.

 

[Eddie Derbyshire]

TOAST clothing had a pair of nice French royal blue flannels on sale a few years ago. I nearly bought some, but they were too pricey.
The jacket is also TOAST - I posted to 'What are you wearing' a little while ago. It's a cotton canvas. If you can't find it I can post again

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[Rabbit]

Ok, it's new and it's cotton. That's different.

 

[Eddie Derbyshire]

Yeh! Sorry if that was misleading. It is vintage styled though. DB with patch pockets etc.

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[tropicalbob]

Rabbit, If you Google "US Marine Corps Dress Blues" and scroll down a bit, you'll see a good photo of the trousers with a red stripe. The pockets and color seem very similar. BTW, very nice outfit. I have about ten of the sailor shirts, all St. James and Armorlux, in different colors. They're perfect for the warm weather and look fine with sport jackets and even leathers.

 

[Rabbit]

Bob, I think you've nailed it. An eBay search yields plenty of modern USMC dress blues, which lack the black contrast stitching and are made of a polyester blend, but there's this vintage pair which has the same black stitching as my pair. Going by the photos (below), the details of the pattern seem to match perfectly: The font of the ink print on the waist liner, the shape of the pocket flaps, the ticket pocket stitching, the waistband loops, the black liner on the reverse side of the pocket flaps (same fabric on the enforced buton fly of mine, btw), and every other detail visible on the comparison images. The only exception is that they have a zip fly instead of a button fly.

The seller claims this pair to be the 1947 pattern. I couldn't confirm it yet with a short search. The button fly version should then be pre-1947, obviously.

Interesting that they don't have a production stamp or label. The 40s-50s Army and the post-WWII USAF trousers that I've seen all had stamps somewhere on the pocket liners.

Click to enlarge.