What Field jacket is this??

[Doug C]

OK, I've bought a WWII (I assume) jacket that is like the paratroopers jacket. But this one has one real button on each of the pockets instead of the double snaps on the pockets, like the ParaT jackets have. Has those same buttons all the way down the front covering a zipper. Also it's different from those jackets in that the slanted chest pockets on this one does not have angeled flaps but rather they have sort of rounded pointy flaps, and the pockets themselves aren't as 3-dimentional as the paratrooper jackets. My jacket has buttoned cuffs like a shirt but with big buttons. Also has a draw string at the waist area and at the very bottom area. It's called a "utility jacket" on the label. Now, honestly when I think of a paratrooper's jacket I'm thinking of only the ones used by the 101st (from all the movies, etc.) but did other units use different ones? Were there maybe an earlier version of the paratrooper jacket that used what looks like fairly good sized bakelite buttons? Anyone here got any info or want to take a stab at what this jacket actually is?
Doug C

 

[MrBern]

Doesnt sound like a paratrooper jkt.
Werent Naval & USMC uniforms labelled 'Utility' ?

 

[Doug C]

It's almost a cross between an M42 and and M43, but it has buttons like an M41. I'd say it most resembles a paratroopers jacket though (M42), which is why I was thinking it was maybe an earlier version of the paratrooper jacket.

Doug C

 

[DutchIndo]

It is probably an M-41 Jumpsuit Jacket. If the pockets aren't bellowed but patch pockets and the belt has a snap it is. If it's an original it is worth BIG bucks. These were used in North Africa there are photos of Paratroopers of the 509th wearing these. These were rare in WWII and coveted by those troopers who owned them.

 

[BellyTank]

Hello.
Are you sure it's actually a military issue piece?

What you have described sounds very similar to a British 1960 pattern "combat jacket". There are a few other European/NATO models which are also similar.
Slant chest pockets, drawstring at waist and hem, button and zip front.

If it has a drawstring at waist and hem, it is surely not an American airborne jacket that I have seen, at least not from the '30s-'50s.

M41, M42 and M43.
M43 was used late-war and post-war and it's zipper fronted variants continued to be used for a long time.

The term "Utility Jacket" makes little sense to me and is what makes my offered possibilities moot.

Probably not airborne.

What is the colour of this jacket? OD, or Khaki?


B
T

 

[PADDY]

Photos.

Photos would be helpful please

 

[BellyTank]

No.
Too easy.


B
T

 

[H.Johnson]

I agree. It sounds to me like the postwar US cold weather jacket. If it were 1960 pattern British as BT suggests, the first thing that would strike you is the collar reinforcement stitching.

 

[Doug C]

OK Gang, I have to confess: the jacket I've been asking about is a Ralph Lauren Repro, well atleast it's from his RRL line which usually do awesome military repro items, along the lines of buzz rickson, etc. That's why I didn't post pictures originally, I wanted to first understand what had been reproduced without prejudices against RL stuff and so that I could then do my own comparison. I didn't buy it because it was a specific military item, but because I fell in love with the look of it.. figured I'd find out the details later. So no, I'm not absolutely certain it's a military reproduction.. but the appullets on the shoulder, olive drab color and over all look of it led me to assume it was - not to mention the tags that include statements like "supply depot", etc. BT, I think you may be on to something with the British Combat jacket thing, but all of them that I can find are a camo color, not solid. I don't think it's just a poor interpretation of a paratrooper jacket either because RRL has done a very accurate one of those too (I can post a picture if anyone is interested). For some reason I assumed this line of clothing would be US based, but maybe that's kind of silly and really I don't know what made me think that. Here's a couple of shots of it. What do ya'll think?



Doug C

 

[Doug C]

DutchIndo wrote:

It is probably an M-41 Jumpsuit Jacket.

Dutch, do you (or anyone else) have a picture of the M-41 jumpsuit jacket? I've read that there were a couple revisions before the final M-42 jump jacket was settled on but no pictures that I could find. I'd assume (there I go again) that the buttons on my jacket would pre-date the snaps. So that would maybe point to a very early paratrooper's jacket. Oh, I have a japanese magazine that highlights alot of RRL items and this very jacket is in it! Unfortunitly the small write up on it is in japanese and I can not read it.. but inside that foreign text is the words "Jacket M-65", but I know it's not an M-65 vietnam era field jacket.

Doug C

 

[BellyTank]

It's a bit of this and a bit of that.

Here's a British 1960 pattern jacket:

Don't think I could have guessed much closer, from your description.
I think I win...
Yours seems to have an extra button and be made lightweight, more like a bush jacket but close.

Nothing like an "M41", or anything interesting, apart from the '60 pattern,
which is interesting.
Here's an "M41":

Ask me another.
But be honest this time, if you want honest help.


B
T

 

[MrBern]

RRL stuff can be very nice, but pricey.

Please post the RL jump jacket.

A few years ago they did a paratrooper trouser , calling it the Briggs Fatigue. Unfortunately it was a post WWII rigger style w/o the pocket flaps being slanted.

Pix of originals, note the belt has a snap to keep it in place. Does anyone have pix of the matching pants?

 

[Doug C]

BT, WOW what can I say - you were absolutely right.. which really doesn't surprise me now that I think of it. Mine even has the segmented sleeves like in your picture (does not show up in my pics very well). Also appears to have the same stitch pattern all over the collar. And yes it looks like mine in on the lightweight side. It's odd to me that they'd choose to do a '60s pattern jacket, not that it isn't cool but we get used to WWII stuff ya know. This is going to be very unique over here, a conversation piece to wear if nothing else. Was it used by any particular group or general military, and would the original have been labeled a utility jacket? I'll try to shoot and post a couple of better pictures when my jacket arrives. I think it'll look great with vintage military khakis.

Hey MrBern, here's RRL's US M-42 :




Doug C

 

[MrBern]

Hey MrBern, here's RRL's US M-42 :




Doug C

Hmm, wow, totally missed that one. Do you know when the jacket was produced?
Nice Khaki color. Most of the repros are light Olive. HArd to find a good warm khaki.
Last year I noticed they offered an M41 field jkt, but the zipper was wildly off & it was covered in patches & stenciling.

 

[Doug C]

Not sure when it was done, probably not that long ago though. It's on ebay currently but they're asking alot IMO, see item# 360145207585.

"BT" - I keep trying to figure out this statement that you wrote:

Nothing like an "M41", or anything interesting, apart from the '60 pattern, which is interesting.

Can I take it from that, that you think my jacket is boreing, or maybe I'm misunderstanding or just being sensitive? In my mind It is like the M41 in that it uses similar buttons. It's like a M42 (slightly) in the slanted pockets on the chest and bigger pockets down below. And it's like an M43 in it's use of a drawstrings instead of a belt. But like you said, a mixed bag. I think the British obviously must have taken some ques from the '40s era US jackets, with these mid-'60s jackets. BTW, like I mentioned earlier that book I have that features this jacket in japanese did call it an "M-65", which now makes since to coincide with the pattern year, but I wonder if they ever carried such a model designation?
Doug C


Doug C

 

[MrBern]

Not sure when it was done, probably not that long ago though. It's on ebay currently but they're asking alot IMO, see item# 360145207585.

Well thats not unusual at all for RRL. The RRL stuff is more interesting & exclusive than their simpler POLO gear. That jacket is probably sold in only a few shops around the world.

The Buzz Rickson M-42 jacket goes for about $300.

http://historypreservation.com/hpassociates/detailpop.php?uniqnum=332

 

[MrBern]

Not sure when it was done, probably not that long ago though. It's on ebay currently but they're asking alot IMO, see item# 360145207585.

"BT" - I keep trying to figure out this statement that you wrote:
Can I take it from that, that you think my jacket is boreing, or maybe I'm misunderstanding or just being sensitive? In my mind It is like the M41 in that it uses similar buttons. It's like a M42 (slightly) in the slanted pockets on the chest and bigger pockets down below. And it's like an M43 in it's use of a drawstrings instead of a belt. But like you said, a mixed bag. I think the British obviously must have taken some ques from the '40s era US jackets, with these mid-'60s jackets. BTW, like I mentioned earlier that book I have that features this jacket in japanese did call it an "M-65", which now makes since to coincide with the pattern year, but I wonder if they ever carried such a model designation?
Doug C


Doug C

FYI
just keep in mind more than one jacket is an M41
the M41 field jkt & the M41 jumper...

There were probably guys in the 82nd who wore both, as well as the later M42Jumper & M43 Field jkt...if they lived long enuff.
BTW, theres a 101 website that has an M-41 Jumper that was issued in `42 to a Sgt in the 101, who only wore it at formations & special occasions.

Did the British take a cue from American uniforms?
Just keep in mind we started the war wearing Brit style helmets, and ended the war with Ike jkts that were derived from the Brit BattleDress.

 

[Doug C]

hehe, I had a feeling someone was going to set me straight with that remark
~Doug C

 

[MrBern]

RRL

BTW, I went over to two RRL shops in NYC today. One had a fine pair of WWII paratroop trousers to match that jkt, but no jkts. I was told it was hand made with rigger details of reinforced knees & stenciling, etc.
On the wall it looked fab, but on inspection there were a few off details.
But the real choker is the price...$600

You could prob get an original pair for that price.

Yes, if the pants were under $200, I wouldve picked them up. It ruined my afternoon.

 

[BellyTank]

OK, let me answer your questions- please don't take things personally, especially o'pinions that are requested, that are aimed at inanimate objects.

Your jacket is not interesting, or collectible, for me, at least, who is interested in and a collector of military uniforms and the development of such- it is not a military item, nor collectible, outside the realm of RRL collectors. An "M41" airborne jacket would be an interesting, exciting and very collectible discovery, to turn up here on the Lounge, though. Remember the context of your post, requesting information- it appeared to be a genuine request for information about an actual mystery military garment. The 1960 pattern British combat jackets are interesting and becoming very rare. You can take it however you choose to but your jacket looks, to me(and I am being asked) like a "fashion" version of a military garment- which is exactly what it is, so no hard feelings, surely. It is obviously copied from the British 1960 pattern jacket but it doesn't capture it at all- it looks more like a tropical bush shirt/jacket than a temperate field jacket.

We're back on the "Ghurka" thing again, here. I just stumbled across some nonsense, so let me include it here.

This is, I guess, from a fashion web site:

"Most often when we’re talking about Ghurka, it’s in reference to fashion– the Gurkha pant (and short) and of course, the great American Ghurka bags and accessories. We seem to vaguely know that there’s a military influence going on–.....ad nauseam"

This is funny for me because I had never heard of "Ghurka shorts", or "Ghurka leather goods" until reading (here on the FL)about the controversy of branding/naming junk after a recognised, name, such as the heroic Ghurkas.

And back on track, no- "Utility Jacket" is not what a 1960 pattern jacket would have on the label- as I mentioned, it would have "Jacket, Combat...", or something similar and I doubt you'd see "Utility Jacket" on anything but a "military style" jacket.

M65.
There is a so-called M65 jacket, the US field jacket, it's like an updated M43 field jacket. This would be nothing to do with the British 1960 pattern jacket, which is the "1960 pattern jacket", not the "about 1965 pattern jacket"

Happy Easter, Eggmen.


B
T

Not sure when it was done, probably not that long ago though. It's on ebay currently but they're asking alot IMO, see item# 360145207585.

"BT" - I keep trying to figure out this statement that you wrote:
Can I take it from that, that you think my jacket is boreing, or maybe I'm misunderstanding or just being sensitive? In my mind It is like the M41 in that it uses similar buttons. It's like a M42 (slightly) in the slanted pockets on the chest and bigger pockets down below. And it's like an M43 in it's use of a drawstrings instead of a belt. But like you said, a mixed bag. I think the British obviously must have taken some ques from the '40s era US jackets, with these mid-'60s jackets. BTW, like I mentioned earlier that book I have that features this jacket in japanese did call it an "M-65", which now makes since to coincide with the pattern year, but I wonder if they ever carried such a model designation?
Doug C


Doug C