What is an offset collar on an A2?

[Azog]

Hi everybody, my first post here although I've been reading TFL on off for the last couple of years. I learned a lot about leather and jackets here and have made a few middle to high end purchases based off the knowledge gained. One thing I haven't understood is the so called offset collar on an A2. I know what offset sleeves are but the offset collar is still a mystery. I've got an Aero 1756 Unknown Maker A2 where the collar seems to be "off to the side a bit" and doesn't appear to line up with the zip. It looks like the points of the collar have rotated around a little. I always assumed this was the offset but in a recent post here someone said their offset collar was asymmetrical and considered it to be a fault. Can anyone clear this up?

 

[Brettafett]

Hello and welcome
Well... a picture speaks a 1000 words. If possible, upload a pic lets see.
As a general rule, and I may be mistaken, the collar points should sit at the same level, not one lower than the other.
Double check how the collar folds also, perhaps one side is folding more, which may give the illusion of a lower collar point on one side.
Mmmmm these words may be confusing, sorry. Best to upload a pic.
If it is skew, then this would be an example of quality control mentioned in a couple of other posts...
eg http://www.thefedoralounge.com/showthread.php?73032-Bill-Kelso-Star-A-2/page5
Leading to the question of how much it bothers you. Personally, if it IS a construction faux pas, I would not accept it on a premium jacket.
(I recently came across this issue on a well-known mid range repro G-1, it didn't look too bad, but was pretty noticeable... so, it does happen)
Some jackets were possibly made this way, but I have not come across any.
Also, in ww2, rushed jackets may have had all sorts of peculiarities...

 

[Azog]

I'm fine with how the collar is although it seems unusual. The jacket has been my main wearer for the last two years. Aero mentions on their site that the offset collar is a design feature. It's in the following web address.
"http://www.aeroleatherclothing.com/product-detail.php?id=90" I just dont know if the rotated collar is what they mean by offset. In the closeup of the collar on Aero's 1756 page you can see what it is like where one collar points down and one points off to the side more. Mine also has very rounded collar points, moreso than in Aero's pic but I kind of like it. Another thing I like in my jacket is that the throat latch can be done up easily with just one hand.
Will try and get some photo's posted of my jackets if I can get the time. I've bought from Aero, Eastman, Bill Kelso and Alexander

 

[Brettafett]

It may be a design feature on some contracts, but I am sure its not a common one. I believe the early jackets, like the 1711 Aero, had more complicated design features, but then these were omitted or simplified later during the war, like the collar stands.
I guess at the end of the day, if a jacket is not supposed to have this feature and the collar sits skew or rotated then thats another story.
Looking forward to some more clarification on this...

How would you compare Eastman, Aero, BK and Alexander's jackets? Did you buy A-2s?

 

[andyfalzon]

is this how your collar looks like?

 

[Azog]

Kind of. See how one collar point aims down the zip line and the other points out to the side more. Mine does it more so than in that pic. It doesn't bother me as a fault, I'm just wondering if this is what they mean by an offset collar or is it some other pattern design of the collar.

 

[Brettafett]

This one is not so pronounced, I have recently seen much worse... Incl a label way off centre.
However, the pic above may be one of the contracts that have an offset collar, if its the contract I'm thinking of. If so, I don't see it here...
mmm
I recon you should email the maker directly, no one seems to want to enlighten us on this topic ;-)

 

[armscye]

Normal Tailoring meaning of "Offset Collar"

We may be overlooking the obvious explanation here. In normal tailoring parlance, an offset collar is is one that is positioned to achieve visual symmetry despite the presence of a chest design that is not symmetrical. Since all A2s have windflaps that are set to one side, ALL A2 collars are by nature offset: the left collar point is set back relative to the right. By way of comparison look at a G1, in which the windflap is not full height, and sits under the zipper. The collar points emerge there from symmetrical locations.

A2:



http://www.acmedepot.com/a2jacket/a2images/monarch_neck2.jpg

G1

 

[andyfalzon]

Assuming what you stated here is correct

We may be overlooking the obvious explanation here. In normal tailoring parlance, an offset collar is is one that is positioned to achieve visual symmetry despite the presence of a chest design that is not symmetrical.

then the construction of this

is anything BUT correct


for your viewing pleasure, look at this ORIGINAL A-2:

When collar is hold evenly, epaulets don't line up

when the epaulets line up, the collar is offset

this configuration is strange, however it does not result in this (below)
instead, the collar falls and sits properly and symmetrically (unlike the below)

 

[armscye]

Both jackets match my description of "offset"-- in that both jackets rotate the collar fastening position in order to look centered when fastened, despite the asymmetrical windstop. Notice in the close-up I annotated how the right collar points goes forward to meet the zipper line, while the left one is set back ("offset") by about 30mm.

 

[Sloan1874]

We're deep into VLJ territory here, but it's interesting...

 

[andyfalzon]

Perhaps I didn't make myself clear enough.

The original jacket has an "offset collar" or you may call it whatever you want, however, the fact is that when worn the collar sits in the correct position and no anomaly is visible.

That is not the case with this

this is just a wrongly constructed collar.

here's another wrongly constructed collar, the other extreme