Why can't the WW2 repro makers pay more attention to 'detail?'

[BellyTank]

Details...

...well, when a company promotes something as being an authentic repro of an issued item, like the RAF sweater and they go to the extent of adding an 'Air Ministry' label, they should get the details correct. If they don't and they know better, then it's completely dishonest.

The Douglas Bader style polka-dot scarf is another thing- that was a privately purchased item and perhaps open to some interpretation.

B
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[Zemke Fan]

Authentic Reproductions...

When a company promotes something as being an authentic repro of an issued item, like the RAF sweater and they go to the extent of adding an 'Air Ministry' label, they should get the details correct. If they don't and they know better, then it's completely dishonest.

BT -- I really think you hit the nail on the head there. AND, I have a beef about Eastman's Rangoon shirt, too. I got one from them in the "tan" shade, thinking that it was going to be "pink" or at least some variant of "khaki," but it ended up being more like a dark taupe. (A great color, BTW, just NOT pink and NOT khaki.) And that brings me back to your original point. If they go to so much trouble to do a "historically accurate" reproduction -- down to the label -- why in the world would they make it in the wrong color? -- ZF

Here's the quote from their Web site:

"We examined many original examples, and decided this was the best one to replicate. The quality of the materials, detail and workmanship is truly superb, and our reproduction is the perfect copy.

Made from the finest 2ply gabardine wool, and available in both the Green and Tan (traditionally referred to as Officer Pink), our Officers' shirts are the perfect accessory to wear under any of the USAAF style flight jackets.

They are 'form fitted' just like the original, so the cut has that flattering tapered-to-the-waist appearance. From the satin lined yoke, to the shape of the buttons, these shirts are so accurate, you'll think they are 'new old stock'! And, they come complete with a complimentary 'Rangoon' tie."

Now the TIE is the correct color, which leads me to think that the green shirt is probably the right shade. But the "Officer Pink" shirt is definitely NOT the right shade (not even close) in my opinion.

Oh, one more thing, forget about ordering one in a 17.5 neck size (as they advertise). I was told from the U.S. distributor that these aren't made anymore.

 

[Mojave Jack]

I think there are a couple factors that influence the quality and authenticity of the repros. The first factor, and I think the most influential, is that the repro market is a relatively small one, limiting the vendors to smaller, usually overseas, production houses. The repro vendors simply don't have the market control to make demands of their producers that a large company, like LL Bean, can. The alternative is to make those demands of the producers, but the cost for such limited production would be significantly higher, which we as collectors would end up paying. A good example is WPG's ammo boots that have the short tongue. Jerry obviously did not ask the factory to make the tongue too short, and if he was representing Florsheim I'm sure those boots would have been trashed and an entire new run produced.

The other factor is simply advertising. Would anyone actually consider a buying a shirt, jacket, pants, etc, from a vendor that proclaimed "a so-so reproduction, with questionable color accuracy and shoddy workmanship"? Of course their going to talk their product up, which is why so many of us spend time son these boards, tryin to get the skinny on everything. It's a balance between caveat emptor and truth in advertising, I suppose. To use WPG as an example again, Jerry just puts it out there. Look, these boots have a defect, but they are still affordable so buy them if the short tongue doesn't bother you. I think that's one reason people keep going back to him.

The alternative is to spend exhorbitant amounts of money tracking down accurate material and having a tailor make a custom item. I personally can't afford to do that. And as Paddy has pointed out elsewhere, the variation in color, material, and worksmanship varied tremendously throughout the war. Each vendor generally claims that they've used actual examples as their patterns; maybe some just chose bad examples.

 

[BellyTank]

True... to some extent- but where colour is concerned, there's not really any excuse. Most collectors are aware of the 'range' of wartime colour variations- so, to offer one outside of that range is plain silly.

The vendors (many), unfortunately PREY on ignorance and their public believing their hype and invented histories.

This also goes to the Horshide jacket thing(repro vintage).
Horsehide is bannered as being bullet-proof and the best material available- to some extent that's true but back in the day, many of the more expensive and high-end leathers were made from imported leathers- Goatskin is a great example. The 'Proudly made in America' banner is often waved too and is another red herring to draw us in. Often it's a bald face lie too... or the quality is below par compared to imports.

Vendors make hype and make you buy into their re-write of history, which suits their raw materials sourcing/availability, cost cutting and manufacturing/talent shortcomings- part of the value chain..? or part of the food chain..?

Jerry/WPG is one of the good ones.
Gets his gear made in India and doesn't lie about it like the rest do.

B
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[Zemke Fan]

Jerry/WPG is one of the good ones.
Gets his gear made in India and doesn't lie about it like the rest do.

Agree with BT. I have a WPG pair of "pinks" -- both pants and shirt -- and the color compares favorably with the original WWII pair of pink trousers that I own. My only gripe with WPG is that they use their own tag instead of a repro and that the items come with a "Made in Pakistan" label. (I've removed both.)

 

[BellyTank]

...at least he's honest!

B
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[MrBern]

Yup, those are dead on reasons why repro items often are lacking.
I had a menswear designer girlfriend when I was first getting into reeenacting. She was appalled at some of the repro vendor's practices. And she felt some of the pricing was a bit too close to designer labels.
A few years ago, AttheFront had a lot of complaints that their paratrooper pants would split right away at the crotch. Some peopl blamed it on fat guys slipping into the wrong size. Others claimed it was a flaw in th original `42 design & that it was common for pararoops to reinforce their uniforms. I still think its BS. I've had two friends both blow out those trousers on the first day worn. Rediculous. I wouldnt even expect a pair of pajamas to split on th first day.
Every shipment a vendor puts out, you have to expect a variation in color, or quality, or material. You buy it expecting the worst & hoping for the best. Or you lean back & wait for reports from other customers.
Is all you can do when theres no original in your size or pricerange.
Happy hunting , boys.

 

[jake431]

What I don't understand is this - why is there no market pressure to force repro vendors to improve the QC and durability issues? You'd think the market would reward, amply anyone who did.

-Jake

 

[Baron Kurtz]

What I don't understand is this - why is there no market pressure to force repro vendors to improve the QC and durability issues? You'd think the market would reward, amply anyone who did.

-Jake

Perhaps the majority of the market (obviously present company excluded ) don't actually know much about construction values of the past, choice of leather/fabric, etc. etc. etc. Clearly the people here know enough to demand these things, but do the vintage-savvy Loungers and others like them form a majority of the market? Maybe not. Maybe the market majority is more price driven. If something looks kinda like the original, and is a better (lower) price than the other garment that is vintage perfect but relatively very expensive, perhaps the market is more interested in the first option. Therefore no market pressure (or not enough to make it economical to produce vintage-perfect repro - defeating the purpose of using the word repro, but that's just semantics).

bk

 

[Vladimir Berkov]

I have no experience with British or American GI reproduction gear but I do have experience with Russian and German gear. What is interesting about those two nations as opposed to the American stuff is that the originals were often had poor quality control and were made of inferior materials to begin with.

German early-war uniforms were of the highest quality but as the war wore on they started substituting synthetic fibers for natural ones, details started getting dropped and quality sometimes suffered.

Russian pre-war uniforms were high-quality but the stuff produced from 1941-late 43 was rushed to the troops as quickly as possible. It was made from all sorts of non-matching material, often it was poorly made or poorly sized. It would be strange to see a Russian soldier in 1942 wearing a properly sized, all-matching uniform.

The reproduction stuff for both of these countries is almost always made of 100% wool, 100% cotton with usually good workmanship. If you buy from a good vendor it is not usually a problem getting Russian or German items which are made properly. The only problem I have is that often the reproduction stuff is made to fit modern Americans rather than in real war sizes. This is great for the big fellows but bad for me.

 

[BellyTank]

The best repro WW2 uniform items I've had have come from England, Germany and the Czech republic. The worst came from WWII Impressions in the USA- but in saying that, it was about 5 years ago, hopefully he's improved. Fabric was sub-par and khaki trousers turned orange after washing. Bad construction too.

Some vendors say they use fabric identical to WW2 fabric- custom milled and dyed but in my experience, some who say this are just plain BS-ing, or they must be looking with their good eye closed, or even retarded.
The buttons are usually WW2 ones, at least.

Shoes and boots from many of the reenactor vendors are usually pretty bad quality leather, which is disappointing.

BUT- along with one-eyed, colour-blind, liars of vendors, there are also consumers who wouldn't know HBT from TNT or khaki from saki- so there feedback is pretty useless.

Most of the vendors cut costs where they believe it won't be noticed but it's criminal when you consider how they market their products...

B
T:rage:

 

[jake431]

The best repro WW2 uniform items I've had have come from England, Germany and the Czech republic. The worst came from WWII Impressions in the USA- but in saying that, it was about 5 years ago, hopefully he's improved. Fabric was sub-par and khaki trousers turned orange after washing. Bad construction too.

Some vendors say they use fabric identical to WW2 fabric- custom milled and dyed but in my experience, some who say this are just plain BS-ing, or they must be looking with their good eye closed, or even retarded.
The buttons are usually WW2 ones, at least.

Shoes and boots from many of the reenactor vendors are usually pretty bad quality leather, which is disappointing.

BUT- along with one-eyed, colour-blind, liars of vendors, there are also consumers who wouldn't know HBT from TNT or khaki from saki- so there feedback is pretty useless.

Most of the vendors cut costs where they believe it won't be noticed but it's criminal when you consider how they market their products...

B
T:rage:

Martin,

We've been down this thread's road before, but could you humor (me) us and perhaps put a few links of vendors you consider at least decent, if not downright good? I just want to know where I should look if I want a decent pair of HBT pants, or something similar.

Thanks,
-Jake

 

[Hondo]

Just to throw out a question while were on khakis, I've notice some khaki's (pants) in photos that look grey, Were they really in this color? I don't see many out there except for the "pinks" Do any of you own greys with or without cuffs? [huh]

 

[BellyTank]

Jake- it depends what you're looking for...

The most recent gear I've bought has been German, made in Germany and England. I don't do German reenacting, I just by a few bits and pieces- shirts and stuff but I've seen a lot at military fairs and so on. I'm not really into the US WW2 gear so much now.


...what are you after?

B
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[jake431]

Jake- it depends what you're looking for...

The most recent gear I've bought has been German, made in Germany and England. I don't do German reenacting, I just by a few bits and pieces- shirts and stuff but I've seen a lot at military fairs and so on. I'm not really into the US WW2 gear so much now.


...what are you after?

B
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Pants, mostly. HBT's (Marine or Army) are top on my list right now. Also, how do you rate the Air Diggers mid/late war black aircrew sweater?

-Jake

 

[BellyTank]

Jake-

Well- I have no experience of Air Diggers' sweater but their products have a good reputation so far.

HBTs- Harlan Glenn has an outfit called 'Tarawa to Okinawa' (years ago, he had 'King and Country' and was making nice Denison Smocks) and was specialising in WW2 USMC gear- but I can't find them on his web site/s- He's a very particular replicater of USMC gear and I have seen his HBT pants and I was impressed- closest I've seen. When I compare my WWII Imp' USMC HBT dungarees with my originals, they don't have so much in common- the originals maintain a hard, crisp finish and a unique USMC colour- the WWII Imp' repros are a strange, more olive colour and the HBT weave is the wrong size, weight and finish and has a slight nap, fuzz, which the real McCoy has not. The cut of the repros is great and I like them as a set of vintage trousers but they're not close enough.
Roughly the same goes for WWII Imp's Army HBTs. I also have his USN denim dungarees(trousers) and I like them a lot.

I can only judge on what I have and what I have from WWII Imp' is now about 5-6 years old. But I have had about 5 pairs of pants from him.

From looking at his web site, it seems that there have been fabric improvements in the last few years- hopefully that's true. Hopefully the construction is improved too.

When you pay for a repro of something made from cloth, don't you want it to closely resemble the genuine article..?

B
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[MrBern]

harlan

Harlan dumped his reenactor repros a couple years ago. I dont think he got the windfall out of WINDTALKERS that he hoped for. I believe he's still doing lots of stuff for HistoryChannel.
Incidentally, w/ both ClintEastwood & Spielberg working on PacificTheater films, I bet we'll be seeing a tsunami of hobbyists looking for that gear soon.