Work and the dress down code

[Matt Deckard]

A CEO that is against professionalism... always hard to deal with when you want to button up a shirt he wants you all in t-shirts and jeans. How do you deal with it?

Everything has just become so casual today and signs of this trend letting up are hard to find. Thoughts of ties going the way of the hat and jeans now being the societal suit of today makes me wonder why we just didn't stick with the toga.

When it comes from the top down and bucking the standard may mean a removal from your position the only strategy I see at the moment is to go with the flow but argue that the more relaxed dress codes are the more ... meh... fight the standard and get a tie with the companies colors. If the boss doesn't like it, find out how hard it would be to work somewhere else.

 

[donCarlos]

How can anybody force you to dress casual when you don´t feel like it? I thought that even the casual fridays are voluntary. The world´s going crazy

 

[ShoreRoadLady]

Originally posted by donCarlos:
How can anybody force you to dress casual when you don´t feel like it? I thought that even the casual fridays are voluntary. The world´s going crazy

I think it's more a case of not fitting in with the dominant culture, therefore your coworkers/managers start getting the idea that you don't "belong". And that's not a particularly good thing for management to be thinking!

I think it depends on the workplace. Some companies are all about the T-shirts and jeans. Maybe you don't fit in there. And then there are the companies where you *do* fit in, but like Matt said...someone thinks everything should be overly casual (perhaps inappropriately so). I don't know. I know that I have NEVER worn a suit to a job, don't wear expensive clothing, and still have had people think that I'm overdressed for casual Friday. Probably because I was wearing a skirt and nice top instead of jeans. [huh] But on the flip side, that wasn't frequent. Most companies I worked for went the business casual route (nice pants, nice shirt/blouse, and depending on the company, suits). In my experience, it's been people outside of work that underdress.

A note on color: It's amazing how color affects our perception of "dressy" vs. "casual". I could bet you that some of my "dressy" outfits would have been perfect "casual Friday" gear had they involved more pale neutrals than blacks. What can I say? Black goes with everything.

(Note: One group of people in particular that I think should be overlooked in the dressy vs. casual debate are the technical experts in the workplace. For instance: IT, patternmakers, etc. - the hands-on people who really have a need for comfort and usually labour away in obscurity instead of meeting with clients. I give them a pass. You may work in such a field and choose to wear a suit because you like it, but there's something to be said for keeping your technical people happy. )

 

[donCarlos]

I´m still quite horrified by the attitude of the managers. Instead of trying to be as serious and formal as they can (nothing is too good for a customer), they invent such a things like the casual fridays and these informal drees codes... And they even try to punish you when you try to be better than the others are... I find this whole absolutely ridiculous and I hope I´ll never have to work under such management.

 

[Oscar Tong]

(Gasp! ) Matt, are you serious?! Dressing nice can cost you your job?! Isn't that discrimination????? Grr...this makes me sick. :rage: The world's turning into an Idiocracy. Is this anti-professional CEO your boss, or somethin'?

I've never worked in a corporate environment, so I can't speak from experience. Knowing me, though, I'd disobey. I'd rather suck on a urinal puck than wear a t-shirt and jeans to an office job. The last minutes of my job would probably culminate in an explosive argument about dress sense. Titles mean nothing to me; the boss, assuming he's an idiot, is just another meatbag in my eyes.

 

[Lulu-in-Ny]

I work in Retail, so the dress code runs a pretty wide gamut. Employee handbooks state that you need to look "professional", but it can be difficult pinning down exactly what that means. I started in '99, and the guys were required to wear ties. That went away in 2000, although some still wear them. I can and do support that in our store, because a lot of running around, lifting, and moving of fixtures goes on, and in the summer, it's deadly. Especially since the gals can get away with a little more in the direction of being comfortable!
When I worked in New Jersey, we were in constant danger of a bored CEO/Executive coming down to visit. Ergo, the Management staff always dressed. I carried that with me upstate, only to find a district full of khakis and polo shirts and embroidered vests. (Not to mention Crocs, although that was banned almost as soon as people started wearing them...)
I've never gone to work in anything less than what I've always worn- dresses, skirts, suits, etc. I'm just not comfortable any other way. And, from a customer standpoint, if they need a Manager's assistance, I want to look worthy of the job I've been given. I get a lot of questions as to why I bother dressing the way I do, and I always tell them that it's because I'm in charge of the building, and the way I appear to everyone should reflect that.

Your appearance, and how it affects your behavior, have a huge influence on productivity and respect in the workplace. This sort of backslide into a world of Casual Everyday will take its toll, mark my words. I've seen it happen.

Matt, are you serious?! Dressing nice can cost you your job?! Isn't that discrimination?????

Yeah, I'm pretty sure that there's an issue with this. Unless the way you are dressing is interfering with productivity or safety, I don't think there's much that can be done in an official disciplinary vein. (Official. -It's the backdoors through which they get you that you need to be careful of...)
Much as I'd love to say that you should buck authority and make your stand, stands don't pay the bills, and reality dictates that most of us need a job to do so. Use your best judgment, and see where it takes you. Good Luck!

P.S. Is this a new CEO? It seems like every time a new Board Room guy comes in, they feel the need to make their mark somehow.
P.P.S. Sorry if this is a little rambling; just woke up and waiting for coffee...

 

[funneman]

I showed up for a job interview at a local ad agency, recently.
This young woman who interviewed me, walked in wearing
tight, faded blue jeans and flip flops. She took one look at my
grey suit and matching hair and gave me a look that said “Oh boy,
this is gonna be a waste of my time.”
I didn't get the job even though I have twenty plus years experience.

 

[CharlestonBows]

Sue the company for style discrimination. The well dressed should be a protected class of citizens. (Can you tell I'm studying for the bar? lol )

In all seriousness, one should try to make the effort to comply with the dressiest of ability. You want to maintain professionalism, but at the same time, you don't want to alienate your peers and superiors. It's a tricky thing, and how you address it really depends on your office environment.

My boss was interviewed on the topic not too long ago for a regional business journal. Bear in mind, this is Charleston & the Southeast:

"Tim Shaw, who opened 319 Men on King Street in 1989, doesn’t look back fondly on the dot-com age of the late 1990s, when hoards of college students were starting Web-based businesses.

“The industry kind of shot itself in the foot when the dot-com craze happened,” Shaw said. “The bull market enabled everyone in this country to make money so easily that corporate standards were so relaxed, including the way people were dressing.

“You had all these fictitious businesses that were being established by people right out of college. Then all that deflated, the market corrected itself and people had to go back to work and earn money. They had to change the way they approached business.”

The suit is back, Shaw said, particularly among young men.

“In the last year to 18 months, I’ve seen a resurgence of young men buying suits,” he said. “Before, if a guy had to go on a job interview, he’d borrow a friend’s blue blazer. My suit business has made a strong comeback in the past three years.”

Shaw is selling 20% to 30% more suits and sports coats than he was selling 18 months ago, which contributes nicely to store volume, he said.

“Those are your high-ticket items. Basically, casual Friday is gone,” he said."

 

[LeeB]

I work in an extremely professional environement and I still se those who think that 'dressed for work' means wrinkled dress pants and a polo shirt. Before moving to my current department (in an office setting) I was an onsite tech and dressed accordingly. As soon as I moved to the business side of the company, I started wearing suits and sportcoats on a daily basis. Invariably, someone, sometime durint the day would ask me if I had a job interview or a funeral.
Even my wife accuses me of 'dressing up' due to my wearing khakis on a daily basis. She states that it looks like I'm trying to be 'better than everyone else'. I simply explain that this is how I'm most comfortable. Even when I work from home (which is more frequent these days due to gas prices) I still wear khakis (gasp) with my shirt tucked in! (Mock horror can be pcitured on my face.)

 

[frijoli]

I dress up compared to my engineering colleagues. They say the reason they dress casual(jeans and a golf shirt), is because fairly regularly, we have to physically work on some of our equipment. I dress up anyway,a nice button up shirt and nice pleated slacks, and I roll around on the floor with the best of them.

Now, I don't wear a suit and tie, but I don't think it's appropriate attire to wear jeans in the office.

Clay

 

[dhermann1]

I think it's possible to "dress down" and still "dress up". Say you wear a white shirt and dark suit Monday thru Thursday, and the rest of the company goes casual for Friday. Why not wear a colored or plaid flannel shirt, with knit tie, and a corduroy sportsjacket with leather patches on the elbow? Just for example. Clothes like that can be very comfortable, look more casual, and still make the clear statement that you try to dress "nicer" than the average bear. (That's a Yogi Bear reference to those of you in the too-young-to-remember age bracket.)

 

[ShoreRoadLady]

Remember, there's always the reverse psychology plan. Show up in a bona fide costume for the week: Beach Bum! Pull out the baggy shirts, the ripped & stained shorts, and revel in your newfound freedom from brushing your hair! Throw out the belts (who needs 'em?), be daring and pair white socks with sandals! Better yet, try on those new flip-flops. Slap on a baseball cap for that certain je ne sais quoi.


* Some of you might want to hand out heart pills to your coworkers before trying this...

 

[Rick Blaine]

From 60 minutes

I caught this last Sunday:

This story was originally broadcast on Nov. 11, 2007. It was updated on May 23, 2008.

It's graduation time and once again we say "Stand back all bosses!" A new breed of American worker is about to attack everything you hold sacred: from giving orders, to your starched white shirt and tie. They are called, among other things, "millennials." There are about 80 million of them, born between 1980 and 1995, and they're rapidly taking over from the baby boomers who are now pushing 60.

They were raised by doting parents who told them they are special, played in little leagues with no winners or losers, or all winners. They are laden with trophies just for participating and they think your business-as-usual ethic is for the birds. And if you persist in the belief you can, take your job and shove it.


Full (appalling) transcript & video here: The "Millennials" Are Coming

 

[Lulu-in-Ny]

Okay, so my first impression is a burning desire to slap these kids.

I see this all the time at work. Just two weeks ago, we had an employee inform us that they could not work a scheduled shift. They had not requested it off in advance as per policy, but still needed to get the night off. When we told this person (who is 22, BTW) that they would need to find coverage for the shift or show up, we got a call from her mother. She felt that it was our responsibility to cover said shift. We explained that once a schedule goes up, it's a done deal, and that their daughter would have to deal with it one way or the other. The mother got pretty nasty, and we cut her off, informing her that as her child was an ADULT employed by us, we were not at liberty to discuss her scheduling with anyone but her. Ridiculous. I've had parents fill out applications, show up with their kids for interviews expecting to "sit in", you name it. We are seeing a generation of kids who are being systematically destroyed by their parents. And I can see the next generation in the little ones and their over-indulgent parents who shop there.

These kids expect too much; a reward for everything. Anyone who shops at B&N is familiar with the Membership program; a good number of employees think that we should have a reward program for selling them consistently. I believe that if you do that, as soon as there isn't a prize, they stop performing. If you extrapolate this out into all types of employment, you end up with lunatics running the asylum, and the cycle of over-indulgence never gets broken.
Wow. Long post.
This just gets my Irish up something fierce...

 

[Diamondback]

HEYHEYHEY!!! I'm one of those so-called "Millennials", and their lack of professionalism offends even me!

Then again, I am "all professional, all the time" and I dress it even when on vacation, which has led to some interesting situations... like some twit expecting me to go in and fish a bird out of the tar pits when I was visiting LA last year.

 

[Miss 1929]

like some twit expecting me to go in and fish a bird out of the tar pits when I was visiting LA last year.

And did you? now that belongs in the Adventurer's Gear thread...

 

[Nick D]

The "Millenials" are Coming

"Where does this fantasy about 'I'm going to find the dream job' -- there's no such thing as a dream job. I mean, a few of us like me happen to have it. But where does this fantasy come from?" Safer asks Dorsey.

Is it just me, or is this sentence nonsensical at the best?

 

[Maguire]

I've only worked small time jobs at pharmacies usually as a stock guy or register but i've had the same issue. I used to wear a dress shirt and tie, and now that i've been promoted and work in the photo department i pretty much come in wearing a suit (we wear labcoats so wearing a shirt and tie is the only way to go). Interestingly enough, a fellow employee got promoted at around the same time and we've had something of a competition to outdress each other. It got to the point where he was coming in wearing a tux vest and i was busting out my three piece suit for what is just a little better than a minimum wage job.

Naturally i think clothing should be comfortable and I'm not expecting ladies to come to work in ball gowns and men to come to work in frock coats and white gloves but there is just the issue of looking decent. People treat you differently if you're well groomed, nicely dressed, and it also encourages a professional environment. For me, standards of dress are outward signs of other, more important standards of behavior and it doesn't say much when you've got people at an office working in sweatpants.

 

[DrSpeed]

Well, Maguire, I agree.
As I am my own boss I can wear what I like. There is no dress code telling me what to do, but there is common decency and courtesy. For me, that doesn't imply wearing a tie all the time, but it does showing respect in your attitude and clothing for the people who have to deal with you.
Alas, common is perhaps not the right word to use, as it's getting rarer all the time (said the grumpy old man).

 

[John in Covina]

Conform or be cast out! Rush