PC vs Mac - Apple looks very attractive right now!!

Senator Jack · Jul 21, 2006

As I've probably posted before, I began fixing computers when I was 18. I'm now 41 and still fixing computers. That's a looooooooong time. In the late 80s and early 90s my Mac work was about 10% of my business. After about of decade of not having to touch them, I got referred to a client that had a mixed environement so I went through a baptism by fire, and I ended up buying an IBook with Tiger just because I was taking a beating on the job. Well, I figured the whole thing out in a few hours (they were trying to get Entourage to work with Exchange) and now I have this Ibook that I find myself using quite often.

When people say that it never hangs up, that's simply not true. I did have to pull the battery one day just to get it to shut down. It's a computer - it's going to cough. Even the disc copy on Itunes hangs up if it comes across a bad track. (You have to force quit and eject the disc) BUT, I would recommend a mac over a pc for home. FOR BUSINESS - meaning you're going to use a server - I'd still recommend Windows. Apple just doesn't know what it's doing in the server field, and worse, they have no support for it. And worse, they charge $700 for a tech call as opposed to Windows' $400.

Actually, I can't stand that hipster guy on those Mac commercials. He looks like the type to wear flip-flops.

Regards,

Senator Jack

Cabinetman · Jul 21, 2006

Senator Jack said:
Actually, I can't stand that hipster guy on those Mac commercials. He looks like the type to wear flip-flops.

I see what you mean. But he played Warren Cheswick on Ed, and we liked him on that. Now that doesn't mean I want a Mac because the guy from a TV show we used to watch is promoting them. Probably doesn't hurt...

Now Amapola is home and we are about nuts on the Apple site right now...stay tuned.

THANKS, ALL, for the responses. I've never had so many and so quick. Keep 'em coming. Both sides.

Cab

Cabinetman · Jul 21, 2006

Senator Jack said:
BUT, I would recommend a mac over a pc for home. FOR BUSINESS - meaning you're going to use a server - I'd still recommend Windows.

In my case, they are one and the same (one in the same?). We have three computers in the house: The "main" one which is a desktop and sees the most use (a Dell, vintage 2001 or '02, I think), my laptop (also a Dell, vintage 2003) and my daughter's (a third Dell - present from my in-laws, Christmas 2004). I do most of my office work on the "Main" desktop, but my design and estimating software is on the laptop. This way I can take it to client meetings and show them their job, or design on the fly as we discuss a project. It hasn't proved a perfect situation. I always end up closing it up and get back to them. I can't give them a good number until I can digest it a bit anyway. But enough about me.

More in a little bit. We've got lighting and I am gun shy after having lost this motherboard a year or two ago. Gonna shut this one off.

Cab

Maj.Nick Danger · Jul 21, 2006

I just got into computers about 2 years ago. I started out with a used Compaq with Window$ ME.
It soon became very painful to use so I went on Ebay and purchased a motherboard, Pentium 4, 2 gigs of RAM, a DVD drive and some other assorted parts from local sources and built my own PC for about half the cost of a comparable off the shelf rig. Works great for all my computing needs except now I'm really starting to hate Micro$oft!

I will probably try Mac when it comes time to get a new unit. From what I understand, all you have to do is just plug it in and it's ready to go. I like that.

Cabinetman · Jul 21, 2006

On battery with laptop now, but I have to make supper...blueberry pancakes anyone??

We went the "home-built" route once (not meant to offend, just something to call it) and were fed up with it after 6 months. This was actually put together for us by a retail outlet, not by us.

Just wanted to add to my previous post that we have the laptop and "main" networked, along with a printer. My daughter's is a stand alone machine. We've far too much redundancy in software, but I wanted to be able to actually use my machine if Amapola was on the main one. The network printer has been fine for about 5 months, then started shouting obscenities at us. No, wait. Who was doing the shouting? Ah, Cabinetman, your lips are tingling. So out of character.

Anyway, like so many of you I am sure, it drives me totally bananas when something doesn't work properly. As my dear wife reminds me, I obsess over it until I get it fixed. Yes, but at what cost? How many shop hours did you spend "fixing" the problem instead of using those self-same hours for productivity?

That's really it, isn't it? I haven't the time nor inclination to deal with these computers anymore. It looks like OS X has everything in it we need or want. Well, maybe not everything, but pretty close. We made a list of the programs we use regularly and I will post those to get some further advice from those of you who use both PC's and Mac's. For instance, Microsoft Excel is to a PC as _________________ is to a Mac (I know MS makes Office for Mac now, but what else?).

Thanks, thanks!

Cab

Cabinetman · Jul 21, 2006

Windows programs = OS X programs??

In this case, the "is equal to" sign should be interpreted as "approximates" or "relates to." I suppose we're talking apples and oranges in some of these cases.

Microsoft Windows XPpro = OS X Tiger

Excel = _______________

Word = _______________

Outlook = _____________

Publisher = ____________

(photo editor) = ________ (currently we use MS Digital Image Pro and it is SLoooooooooW; Dog slow, I say)

Outlook Express = _______

Internet Explorer = ______

(pdf maker) = __________ (currently we use a downloaded program called RoboPDF)

(web page design/editor) = _____________ (I just want one that is easy, but versatile...AND WORKS!)

(movie/DVD maker) = ____________ (currently use Pinnacle Studio 8)

Cabinetvision = ____________ (will check to see if there is a MAC version - may just need to keep PC laptop dedicated for this)

(cad) = ____________ (like AutoCAD; I have a "lightweight" version called IntelliCAD from Cadopia)

Media Player = ______________ (saw Quicktime promoted earlier)

These are programs that we are using all the time, or want to. We found looking at the Apple site last night that much of this list is covered without having to buy additional software. Very nice. And it's possible that we'll be able kill a couple birds with one stone - maybe the web page maker included will be good for other design output (brochures, flyers, etc.)?

How about little add-on "stuff"? As an example: Yahoo! Messenger. Amapola asked about that as we were going through our program list last night. Will this be a thing of the past with a Mac? It's certainly not something we're using very much, but fun once in a while.

In that vein, how is it to communicate with another Mac user, or PC user, for that matter? When I have been away on a job, we have used Yahoo! to chat. And sometimes just being silly under one roof, too.

airfrogusmc · Jul 21, 2006

Being in a creative field I learned on Mac. I am using a PC to write this response. For anything creative Macs are the way to go. Macs are also far more reliable than PCs. They just don't break down or freeze up as often. Ask a tech. You shouldn't have any trouble communicating on thru e-mail or on the internet in you switch over to Mac.

Salv · Jul 21, 2006

Cabinetman - I'll fill in a few blanks from your list:

Any new Mac will come with Apple's own IM app - iChat - but there are Mac versions of MS Messenger and Yahoo Messenger which will communicate their PC counterparts.

Photo editing - the latest version of Apple's iPhoto is much improved vover earlier versions and can cope with almost all the photo editing a home user can throw at it. For something more powerful there's Adobe's Photoshop Elements, or even the big one - Photoshop. I've also heard good things about GIMP which is a free image editor for OS X.

Apple still sell, but do not ship with new Macs, a suite of apps called AppleWorks. This is looking a little outdated now, but is still a very capable home user suite. It includes a spreadsheet, a word processor, a drawing app, an art app, and a database. I use AppleWorks at home to maintain a database of my record collection; to create CD jewel case covers for music CD-Rs that I burn for friends; letter writing; keeping my bank account, and lots of other little projects.

Creating .pdfs is simple and can be done from any app that's capable of printing on a Mac. The print dialogue box simply allows you to save any document as a .pdf.

The DVD editor/creator is part of iLife - iDVD, and there's a movie editor included as well - iMovie.

Nathan Flowers · Jul 21, 2006

In this case, the "is equal to" sign should be interpreted as "approximates" or "relates to." I suppose we're talking apples and oranges in some of these cases.

Microsoft Windows XPpro = OS X Tiger

Excel = I use Excel for Mac. Works great.

Word = Again, I use Word for Mac.

Outlook = Entourage. It's the equivalent of Outlook, made by Microsoft, and is included in MS Office for Mac. I don't use it.

Publisher = Pages, part of the iWork suite

(photo editor) = iPhoto. Not tremendously robust, but will do pretty much anything that the average user could need.

Outlook Express = Mail, by Apple. Included with the operating system. I use this daily.

Internet Explorer = Safari, by Apple. Included with the operating system. For some pages, Safari doesn't work correctly, so I use Camino, a freely downloadable software similar to Firefox, and released by the Mozilla Foundation.

(pdf maker) = Built-in to the operating system. Just about every Apple program allows you to Save as PDF.

(web page design/editor) = I use Dreamweaver, made by Macromedia/Adobe, but I do web design for a living. However, Apple now has a program called iWeb, which looks like a fairly decent replacement for light users.

(movie/DVD maker) = iMovieHD, and iDVD, both included with any new Apple purchase. If you had serious video editing chores to do, you could go with Final Cut Express, but that's really a professional product

Cabinetvision = Looks to still be PC only. However, it's been rumored that an upcoming Apple OS will be able to run Windows applications. This is pure speculation at this point, though we will find out for sure by August.

(cad) = There are lots of CAD programs for the Mac. You would probably have to search and pick the one you like.

Media Player = You name the format, and there's an Apple version of it. There's Windows Media Player for Mac (works okay), and Quicktime (most windows users have this already), but my favorite is VLC. It will play almost any file out there.

These are programs that we are using all the time, or want to. We found looking at the Apple site last night that much of this list is covered without having to buy additional software. Very nice. And it's possible that we'll be able kill a couple birds with one stone - maybe the web page maker included will be good for other design output (brochures, flyers, etc.)?

How about little add-on "stuff"? As an example: Yahoo! Messenger. Amapola asked about that as we were going through our program list last night. Will this be a thing of the past with a Mac? It's certainly not something we're using very much, but fun once in a while.

In that vein, how is it to communicate with another Mac user, or PC user, for that matter? When I have been away on a job, we have used Yahoo! to chat. And sometimes just being silly under one roof, too.

You can use Yahoo! Messenger for Mac, or a littany of other programs for this on the Apple.

I use Yahoo, MSN, AIM/iChat, and ICQ, and I have a program called Adium that handles all of these at once with aplomb.

Nathan Flowers · Jul 21, 2006

Senator Jack said:
FOR BUSINESS - meaning you're going to use a server - I'd still recommend Windows. Apple just doesn't know what it's doing in the server field, and worse, they have no support for it. And worse, they charge $700 for a tech call as opposed to Windows' $400.

I'd recommend Windows in a server environment too, but Apple has made tremendous strides with their Server product. 10.4 Server running on an Xserve is a hot product, and one that I highly recommend for SQL, web hosting, and even running DNS or Active Directory duties. I got one at my old job, and had an absolute blast using it. It was extremely easy to configure a very complicated Active Directory setup that worked exceedingly well with both Windows and Apple products. As for what they command for a tech call, I'm not sure, as I never had to make one.

Cabinetman · Jul 21, 2006

Zohar said:
This is pure speculation at this point, though we will find out for sure by August.[/I]

So what you can do now...that is, run a Windows program window inside of OS X is different than what you are saying is coming up?

Thanks for the point by point. Very nice.

N or C

Pilgrim · Jul 21, 2006

Daisy Buchanan said:
Hey Pilgrim,
Just to let you know, Mac has always offered a student system. They have been an integral part of the University system for at least 15 years.

Absolutely! The best thing Apple ever did - and the main reason they're around today - is to make a huge donation of computers to schools when they started, so they trained a lot of kids in their interface. They've maintained a very strong connection with education at all levels, which has been a critical element in creating and supporting their user base.

Daisy Buchanan said:
Also, a good thing to know is when looking at the Mac website, if you choose to buy one on-line, they have a link to their education department.

That's good to know. For the general info of those present, most higher ed institutions have discount computer purchase plans for their students and faculty. Their Purchasing Dept. websites often have links to the contract vendors, or the vendor site (Dell is the biggie) lets you select the institution you're affiliated with. My employer, Colorado State, currently has contracts with Dell, Gateway and HP/Compaq.

I'll be ordering a new laptop in the next week, and I'm doing my darndest to combine performance with light weight. I use a docking laptop as my office and travel computer, and I am heartily tired of dragging a 6-pound box around. Unfortunately it looks as if it will be hard to trim more than a pound off it and still keep the features I need. I'm trying to find a unit that has a lot of stuff in the docking station; when I travel I need a DVD drive, ethernet and phone modem connections, and wireless capability. But that still runs up the weight. Unfortunately the processors in most laptops are also significantly slower than those in desktops.

Nathan Flowers · Jul 21, 2006

Cabinetman said:
So what you can do now...that is, run a Windows program window inside of OS X is different than what you are saying is coming up?

Thanks for the point by point. Very nice.

N or C

Currently, there isn't a good way to run a Windows-only program from within Apple's OSX. If you have a copy of Windows XP, you can dual boot it on the new Apple machines. This means that you'll have two operating systems on the computer, and you're given a choice when you start up as to which one you want to use. If you're in XP, and want to switch back over to OS X, you'll have to shut down and restart.

There are rumors that the next version of OS X that is due early in 2007 will have the capability to run Windows programs from within OS X. This is what's only speculation at this point. In August, Apple holds the Worldwide Developer's Conference, where, if something like this is in the cards, it will be announced.

Renderking Fisk · Jul 21, 2006

When I first started rendering, I was using standard DOS machines to run programs like Auto-CAD and CAD-Key. When I moved on to other graphics programs like Ray Dream Studio, Bryce and Adobe PhotoShop, I was using my Win89 machine.

I used that Win98 machine until a year ago. I used it for everything and it‚Äôs still in my studio which I use as an archive. I used it for so long I talored it to suit my needs. But I hit a wall when some of the drivers for my new equipment and software wouldn‚Äôt load on that machine.

When I got this WinXP machine, a whole new world changed for me. I can do a bout 10 times as many things as I could before, and I‚Äôm able to do things such a webhosting and pod casting that I never thought were possible.

As far as I‚Äôm concerned, it‚Äôs the software, the hardware the user and what the user expects to do. I got along great with my Win89 machine‚Ä¶ I‚Äôm doing far better with my WinXP machine. But I wonder how much better I could do with a Mac sometimes.

Ren

Kt Templar · Jul 21, 2006

Ren, this would: expose, rather than hitting f keys, you set each corner of you screen to do one of the functions. So for instance, swipe to the bottom left of your screen and reveal all your open windows, bottom right to reveal your desktop, etc.

You wouldn't believe how much more productive you'd be. Microsoft is always playing catchup on these sort of things, XP is only copy of 10.1, Vista will be a copy of 10.5.

Twitch · Jul 21, 2006

As with purchasing one brand of car over the other I believe people should decide what they want to do with their machine and pick the one that best suits that goal relative to budget.

FedoraGent · Jul 21, 2006

scotrace said:
Yes, but Lucifer gets your soul.

As someone that was in Information Technology for years and still in the Tech arena, that made me laugh so hard I had ginger ale coming out of my nose. Thank you so much for that. End user entertainment...it doesn't get any better than that. Maybe pop tarts and bad coffee while standing in a Server Room...but that kinda comes close.

Jon

Cabinetman · Jul 22, 2006

Kt Templar said:
...Vista will be a copy of 10.5.

I gotta agree with that. I just perused the Vista site and it looks, and is labeled very similarly. For example: Vista's "gadgets" = Tiger's "widgets"

So, is OS X Tiger 10.5 or is it 10.4.7?

Ever any buggers when upgrading operating systems with the Mac?

Lady Day · Jul 22, 2006

Cabinetman said:
I gotta agree with that. I just perused the Vista site and it looks, and is labeled very similarly. For example: Vista's "gadgets" = Tiger's "widgets"

So, is OS X Tiger 10.5 or is it 10.4.7?

Ever any buggers when upgrading operating systems with the Mac?

Officially its:
Mac OS X version 10.4.7 is the latest release.

Mac OS X version 10.5 will be previewed at WWDC (World Wide Develpoers Conference) in Aug. Here in the citay. I wont be going

Bugs as in how? Yeah there have been a couple of 'too early' releases that are pulled because some people had issues but that is rare, super rare. I always download updates late anywho. I hate restarting my CPUs. My tower is going on 3 months. When it starts to freeze then a restart I will go.

The biggest upgrade issues you ahve ever had to worry about in the Mac world you ahve missed. IE: Mac OS 9 to Mac OSX, OS 10.0-through 10.1.5- to the Current Mac OS *whew* that was a pain. The only real issue you are gonna have if you switch is if you use Outlook. Because that is a priprotitary software (wont let you use the data in ANY app), its near impossible to have it 'converted'. I use to do that, and I found a recipe online that involved scripting, and File Maker and a voo doo chant . . . it was a pain.

Wow, where did I go . . .
LD

scotrace · Jul 22, 2006

Currently 10.4.7.

Full-stop number upgrades (10.2, 10.3, 10.4) cost $129 and have now slowed to every couple of years. "Point" stops are free downloads.

This is a good chance to talk about installation of software on a Mac.
"Point" stop system upgrades are installed while you continue to work. Many people take the precaution of repairing unix permissions prior to making such upgrdades, emptying system cache, etc. It's only wise to have a backup as well. That being said, system software installations do not require you to stop working, and you can reboot when you are ready.
To install most software, you simply click and drag the program icon into the Applications folder and you're done. Some are a full step-by-step installation, but again, you never have to stop what you're doing. They run in the background.

Even better: To delete a program, you drag the program icon to the trash can. All the associated program files go with it in a tidy package. No stray DLL files clogging up the works for years.

PC vs Mac - Apple looks very attractive right now!!

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