This Stuff Isn't Rare - Why So Expensive?

scotrace · Oct 16, 2006

This is something that is bugging me.

There were millions of Open Road hats made. Millions of sets of cufflinks. Millions of suits, ties, spectator shoes. Every Joe had a fountain pen - there are jillions of Parker Vacumatic pens out there. For that matter, millions of dresses, aprons, pumps.

For something to be valuable, there must be a market. Supply and demand, of course.

But a bonnet top high boy from the 1700's. THAT'S rare. In Golden Era terms, a tweed knicker suit from the 1920's - ok, rare.

But why is mass-manufactured stuff so darned expensive? It's as common as dandelions! A common fountain pen should be $10 for a box of them. A Stetson Open Road - $5 at a yard sale. Attrition hasn't lessened supply *that* much.
Am I just showing my age??? Or just my parsimony?

Art Fawcett · Oct 16, 2006

ummm, yup

Scott, because things were made in mass doesn't mean they were saved in mass. I know, with the advent of ebay it seems that they are plentiful but in reality, they aren't. With SO many people wanting the same things and with only so many coming out of the woodwork the supply & demand applies.

Zemke Fan · Oct 16, 2006

Interesting topic, Scott...

I've been wondering about this myself lately. I tend to agree with Art that the supply of certain items DOES seem to be limited... vintage hats and suits being two good examples. However, I am also finding that certain items -- such as vintage purses and watches -- are in ready supply.

I just purchased three 1960s era Givenchy purses (Audrey Hepburn's designer) in mint condition on OFAS for $25 each. I'm going to give one to Helen for Christmas and save the other two for next year.

As for watches, I want to start collecting 1930s examples. I think what I'm going to do in that arena is to seek out solid 14kt gold examples in antique stores. Get the dials professionally refinished and the mechanisms serviced. That's the kind of watch I'm drawn to on eBay and I don't want to end up paying the high prices for someone else's restoration.

Anyway, my two cents worth.

Hemingway Jones · Oct 16, 2006

.

Well, vintage hats in larger sizes appear to be rare, if in fact they are not. But I also must say that they are rare on the confined market of eBay, but not particularly rare at estate sales and vintage shops. I have had good luck finding some large size Borsalinos for example.

I think also some of this is our timing. This stuff was not as rare twenty years ago when those folks were alive and cleaning out their closets. Now, as their numbers sadly dwindle, and therefore so too does the small percentage of them that saved this stuff.

It seems as if we are relying on a second generation to now clean out their closets; a generation well acqainted with eBay.

Baron Kurtz · Oct 16, 2006

Collectability and a rising market size. Plain and simple.

It's not only eBay. Vintage clothing shops used to be cheap, and used to be full of great golden era stuff. Now, it's pretty much picked to death and they charge more for what's left.

bk

Elaina · Oct 16, 2006

Patterns are a good example of this. When I was a kid, you could go to a yardsale and get a box chock full of patterns from the 20's up for a buck. Maybe less. Now, you're lucky to find patterns from the 80's for a buck a pop.

Then people used the patterns as padding when ebay first started (my ex husband and I were still married, I got about 20 patterns from him buying something and them wadding the tissue up and chucking it in the box). And then, because of society where women don't sew, they threw out the patterns once they used them. Even the old vintage ones.

It's not that the patterns are really going for high prices perse, but people are convinced that $5 is a good price for it. It may be, but I'm not going to buy one for that. And because secondhand stores know they were going well overseas, a great portion of the US vintage patterns were shipped out, and lost. Same thing that's happening, and has happened, for years with anything considered a collectable.

If you look on ebay you'll also notice that it's the same people selling the same stuff.

moustache · Oct 16, 2006

Agreed!

Art Fawcett said:
Scott, because things were made in mass doesn't mean they were saved in mass. I know, with the advent of ebay it seems that they are plentiful but in reality, they aren't. With SO many people wanting the same things and with only so many coming out of the woodwork the supply & demand applies.

There were millions of baseball cards made in the early part of the century and beyond.Yet due to the fragile nature of the card and the way they were sometimes used,only a few survive.So many reasons why things disappear:war,natural disasters,etc.
And no doubt we Americans LOVE to collect.That means we will pay almost anything to feed that addiction.I love watches but cannot get past paying $2000 for a 1970's Omega.1970's???And they were mass produced as well.

Ah yes.Capitalism.isn't it grand?

JD

scotrace · Oct 16, 2006

.

if I were a betting man, I'd put down $50 that says if you went to almost any town in the USA, picked a street, and knocked on twenty doors asking for it, you'd turn up five old felt hats.

Hemingway Jones, that sounds about right. We're now dealing with a second generation of people who know how to maximize the amount they get for the stuff in the basement.

Marc Chevalier · Oct 16, 2006

A few years back, I found a nasty plastic copy -- circa 1983 -- of Michael Jackson's famous red leather jacket. (The one with zippers all over it. Remember "Thriller"?)

I'm holding on to that sucker for the next 30 or 40 years ... then I'll sell it for a mint.

.

binkmeisterRick · Oct 16, 2006

As far as fountain pens go, it also depends largely on the condition and color of the pen. A mint Parker Duofold in Mandarin Yellow is quite rare because the ink sacs used in pens at the time had a tendency to cause the barrel to darken, so you'd get a mustard pen body with a bright yellow top.

Also, some pens were made in smaller numbers, or had specific features/aesthetics not even found on every pen by the same manufacturer. I do know pen collecting within the last handful of years has really skyrocketed.

Keep in mind that not all vintage items go UP in value. Whereas a certain item (take pens, for example) may have increased in value over a specific time, they now may be worth far less than when purchased for a "steal."

Supply and demand does play a lot. Also, I think specific associations may cause an item to fluctuate in value. I bet when the movie "Titanic" came out, it generated a LOT more interest in the subject than there had been a decade before. I'm sure many people who saw the movie were motivated to find out more about the ship, and hence, buy more vintage memorabilia associated with it. I'll wager the value of Titanic related items soared after the movie made it big.

Marc Chevalier · Oct 16, 2006

Yes ... and thanks to eBay's worldwide presence, some items don't seem as rare today as they once did. For instance, 1940s-'50s ties designed by Salvador Dali used to go for at least $300 at vintage clothing stores and expos. Today, they're all over eBay ... and the average price has dropped to about $150.

.

jake_fink · Oct 16, 2006

Marc Chevalier said:
Yes ... and thanks to eBay's worldwide presence, some items don't seem as rare today as they once did. For instance, 1940s-'50s ties designed by Salvador Dali used to go for at least $300 at vintage clothing stores and expos. Today, they're all over eBay ... and the average price has dropped to about $150.

.

Everything finds a way to rise though. Ebay has a lot more people looking its merchandise over than any shop or expo ever had access to, and all it takes is two or three mad collectors to send prices skyrocketing. Throw in an enthusiastic neophyte with deep pockets and those Dali ties are vaulting over that $300 mark.

Rosie · Oct 16, 2006

binkmeisterRick said:
Supply and demand does play a lot. Also, I think specific associations may cause an item to fluctuate in value. I bet when the movie "Titanic" came out, it generated a LOT more interest in the subject than there had been a decade before. I'm sure many people who saw the movie were motivated to find out more about the ship, and hence, buy more vintage memorabilia associated with it. I'll wager the value of Titanic related items soared after the movie made it big.

After that movie The Notebook came out, ANY dress that may have looked as though it were once blue or hung next to a dress that was blue was billed "The Notebook Dress!!!!!" all over eBay and sold for much, much more than it was worth. Now with all of these period mvies coming out this year and the "retro" styling of clothes being as fashionable as it is, I've seen a sharp rise in the price of clothes. One dress I had my eye on a few weeks back went for over $400.00!! ...a regular day dress, not a sequins in sight.

Feraud · Oct 16, 2006

Baron Kurtz said:
It's not only eBay. Vintage clothing shops used to be cheap, and used to be full of great golden era stuff. Now, it's pretty much picked to death and they charge more for what's left.

bk

Amen to that! Thrift shop owners have an over-inflated sense of what their stuff is worth too. I have gone into thrift stores that look like junkyards and they have the nerve to charge "gourmet shop" prices.
When they tell me a price like 50 bucks for a pair of brass bookends I tell them to keep it and walk out. Years later I see the same item in the window, dusty and tarnished. lol

binkmeisterRick · Oct 16, 2006

Heck, there's a Salvation Army store mear me that sells regular used shirts for more than you can buy a new one![huh]

Braxton36 · Oct 16, 2006

All the points made seem to be valid.

I'll add one more: Common ordinary things that were used every day (eg clothing, fountain pens, etc.) often simply wore out. They weren't sent to thrift stores to later be e-bayed - they were just thrown away. In our modern culture we now have multiples of everything; several suits, dozens of shirts, a drawer full of pens... in days past even the affluent had a limited number of any of these items. They were used and re-used, patched, mended and repaired. When they finally wore out they were truly worn out and tossed and replaced - gradually moving along the style scale.

And, I'll add one more point: Despite the modern proclivity for e-bay and its ilk, there are still many folks out there who neither know nor care that ordinary items from past days generate any interest. These same folks, when confronted with a massive quantity of ordinary items (in say, cleaning out a house) simply cart it away as rubbish. Been there. Watched it. More times than I can count.

Maj.Nick Danger · Oct 16, 2006

In my recent foray into vintage clothing and accessories, I find a majority of hats, ties, etc. from the sixties. It seems that it takes about forty years or so, a generation, for these items to come out on the market, and they're only available for a short time.

Marc Chevalier · Oct 16, 2006

This stuff is rare.

Folks either wore them out, or gave them away to others who wore them out. Remember, too, that lots of the clothes donated to big charities are then sold to rag merchants who cut them up into, well, rags -- or ship them off in bales to Third World countries.

Furthermore, in the '80s and '90s, scores of Japanese merchants scoured old drygoods warehouses throughout the U.S.A. and sent the deadstock contents (especially jeans) to Japan.

So, yes ... this stuff is rare.

.

PenMan · Oct 17, 2006

rare fountain pens

The supply of good vintage fountain pens was reduced greatly in the 70s when the price of gold shot up and people ransacked their desk drawers, estate sales, etc. to remove the nibs for their gold content. Such a shame.

In Europe they never stopped using them because children are taught to write with fountain pens. Anybody who wants to improve their handwriting should consider finding a free flowing fountain pen, loosening their grip (let the pen do the work) and seeing their control improve a lot. I teach in a graduate program where all the exams are 2 or 3 hour essays. The best students use fountain pens, and never complain of cramping (at least not in their forearms). I got interested in fountain pens because of my handwriting, but have found it to be a great and surprisingly profitable hobby.

John in Covina · Oct 21, 2006

Ball Canning Jars

Ball Canning Jars were made in the millions, but today fetch a pretty good price for the old ones. There came a time for many families that home canning was thought of as being out moded and those lovely jars went by the box and bag full to the dump. Many items were also disposed of with frightening regularity. As the generation of those that went through the Great Depression dies off, the next generations tend to be in a more disoposable mode and things get thrown out without any thought of value.

If I were to guess, i'd say those that tend to hold on stuff are about one in five or six of the general population. Also in many areas people move, a lot. In moving households, and disposing of stuff, basically every 7 moves is equal to a fire. Stuff is dumped or lost or broken and tossed out.

Time to canvas your neighbor hood and list what all you are interested in to your neighbors.

This Stuff Isn't Rare - Why So Expensive?

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